Is Lebron a Dynasty Unto Himself?

[bksballer89]

Yeah, they underachieved in their first season. Bought into their own hype and it cost them.

But that loss against the Spurs...the Spurs were on a mission because of how they lost the season before.

The Heat could have added prime Kareem and prime MJ and they weren't winning that series. lol

Yep. Was never mad about the Spurs series. They were the better team.

The Mavs series is the one that is difficult to ever get over . Gift wrapped games 2 and 4 to Dallas which totally changed the series.

Don't give at least one of those games away then you head back to Miami up 3-2 with 2 chances to end the series.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Just cancel this the season so we no longer got to talk about crap like this. His act is tired at this point, plain and simple. It's the exact same reason people hated Tom Brady so much during his later years in New England.

And people wonder why I'm more interested in HS sports at this stage of my life than I am the NBA...

 

[tlance]

Just cancel this the season so we no longer got to talk about crap like this. His act is tired at this point, plain and simple. It's the exact same reason people hated Tom Brady so much during his later years in New England.

And people wonder why I'm more interested in HS sports at this stage of my life than I am the NBA...

Get over yourself man.

And you are right. People hate Brady for the same reason. Because they can’t beat him.

 

[Robotech]

I'll start by saying, I have a really hard time wrapping my head around 1 person being a dynasty in a team sport.

However, if a case can be made for it, Lebron is the only player I can think of that has a case.

It's hard to make a case for him those first 4 years in Miami because it's not a long enough period of time and he had a lot more help. You can also make a case that they underperformed.

The case for him gets a lot stronger with the Cavs. He had 2 other star players, but one couldn't stay healthy and the other was a crazy person who left after 3 and Lebron still managed to get that team to the finals. However, it's not like the East was a murderer's row or anything.

Being 3-6 in the finals has to be taken into consideration as well. The ultimate goal is to win a championship and regardless of the reasons why, he failed 6 out of 9 times. It certainly shouldn't be the main criteria, but it still needs to be part of the equation, imo.

For me, I say no. Not because of his finals record or anything else. I just don't think 1 player can be a dynasty in a team sport.

I agree. LeBron is a brand and of the greatest, but he is not a dynasty. Even the greatest players need help to win.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Like I said on the main thread, we need something to argue about besides the virus.

So, we can argue about our favorite subject to argue about...Lebron.

I was watching Dan Patrick and they were talking about dynasties. They brought up the the Celtics, UCLA basketball, recent Alabama football, the Lakers, etc. and kind of discussing whether they counted as dynasties or good runs.

Then Dan made an interesting comment that didn't get discussed...

"Lebron could be a dynasty unto himself. 9 straight finals".

So, does 9 straight finals make Lebron a "dynasty"?

Can a player be a "dynasty"?

If a player in a team sport can be considered a dynasty...can he be one if he has a losing record in the finals?

Lebron is as much of a dynasty as the Buffalo Bills are.

 

[trojanfan12]

Lebron is as much of a dynasty as the Buffalo Bills are.

The Bills are an interesting case too.

On the one hand, they won the AFC 4 years in a row, so they were obviously a great team...but they also lost the Super Bowl all 4 of those years.

Is there such a thing as a "conference dynasty"?

If so, and if an individual player in a team sport can be considered a dynasty, then could Lebron be a "conference dynasty"?

 

[trojanfan12]

And people wonder why I'm more interested in HS sports at this stage of my life than I am the NBA...

You need to learn the difference between people wondering why and thinking you're creepy as fuck.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The Bills are an interesting case too.

On the one hand, they won the AFC 4 years in a row, so they were obviously a great team...but they also lost the Super Bowl all 4 of those years.

Is there such a thing as a "conference dynasty"?

If so, and if an individual player in a team sport can be considered a dynasty, then could Lebron be a "conference dynasty"?

No one cares about conference titles, especially in Lebron's case, with how bad the Eastern Conference was.

The West was absolutely stacked, which is why, I believe, Lebron never left the East.

LBJ is a tremendous talent. If you wanted to call him the GOAT -- he could be the GOAT as a role model to kids. He has been the consummate family man, did so much for his community, etc.
In regards to his career -- he will be a top 5 type player when it is all said and done, as he has a really bad losing record in the finals. And he did so by essentially handpicking his teammates for the better part of a decade

 

[trojanfan12]

No one cares about conference titles, especially in Lebron's case, with how bad the Eastern Conference was.

The West was absolutely stacked, which is why, I believe, Lebron never left the East.

LBJ is a tremendous talent. If you wanted to call him the GOAT -- he could be the GOAT as a role model to kids. He has been the consummate family man, did so much for his community, etc.
In regards to his career -- he will be a top 5 type player when it is all said and done, as he has a really bad losing record in the finals. And he did so by essentially handpicking his teammates for the better part of a decade

Good points.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the "handpicked teammates". Not because he didn't do that, but because I don't see it as an issue.

The NBA has always had stacked teams, the only difference is that, starting with Lebron, players figured out that that they have enough power to be able to play where they want and, to an extent, who they want to play with.

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

Only LeBron haters keep leaning on his Finals record.

Only people that like to gargle a warm load of semen before swallowing, say people that poke holes in Lebron's resume are haters.

 

[tlance]

No one cares about conference titles, especially in Lebron's case, with how bad the Eastern Conference was.

The West was absolutely stacked, which is why, I believe, Lebron never left the East.

LBJ is a tremendous talent. If you wanted to call him the GOAT -- he could be the GOAT as a role model to kids. He has been the consummate family man, did so much for his community, etc.
In regards to his career -- he will be a top 5 type player when it is all said and done, as he has a really bad losing record in the finals. And he did so by essentially handpicking his teammates for the better part of a decade

Well, he never left the East because he only played in 2 cities. I guarantee it had nothing to do with the West being stacked. Because end of the day, you are defined by ring count.

LeBron changes teams twice before coming to LA. The first was Miami to play with his friends, The second was a return to Cleveland where he had unfinished business.

It is beyond foolish to assume he never left the East because “the West was stacked”. If Wade and Bosh has played a West team, he would have gone there.

Also, showing up in the Finals with a team that had no realistic shot to actually win it is pretty meaningless for a player trying to achieve GOAT status. LeBron arguably did that 4 times in Cleveland. A stronger support cast in the West would have given him a better shot at the title despite greatly reduced odds of getting through to the Finals.

 

[bksballer89]

And people wonder why I'm more interested in HS sports at this stage of my life than I am the NBA...

We really don't care

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Get over yourself man.

And you are right. People hate Brady for the same reason. Because they can’t beat him.

Yeah, because the 9-7 Titans were so dominant all season long.

 

[SJ76]

You talk about dynasties you talk about teams. NBA isn’t supposed to be an individual sport but I guess it is now? Tiger dominated golf for awhile. Lebron has had a good run but yeah he’s bounced around so it is what it is

 

[SJ76]

I like that, a LeBron dynasty as opposed to a team dynasty. Perfect LeBron, as he's more about himself then a team or franchise.

And yes, he was, look at how many straight Finals he appeared in while in the East. But not a very good dynasty given all the appearances he made and only came away with 3 titles. The Heat alone should have at least 3 when they had the Big 3.

I’m gonna venture to say that Lebron is about the team when he has one good enough to win with. When he doesn’t he comes across as selfish making moves like a GM, jumping ship to another team, etc.


Lebron doesn’t win a title in Cleveland without Kyrie. He doesn’t win a ring in Miami without Ray Allen. It’s a team sport and always will be

 

[HurricaneDij39]

You need to learn the difference between people wondering why and thinking you're creepy as fuck.

Right then. Covering HS sports is creepy, yet accusing a poster for having another individual's "one nut" in his mouth is somehow not?

I guess everyone needs to keep themselves entertained when there's nothing else to hang their hats on, pandemic or not.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

I’m gonna venture to say that Lebron is about the team when he has one good enough to win with. When he doesn’t he comes across as selfish making moves like a GM, jumping ship to another team, etc.


Lebron doesn’t win a title in Cleveland without Kyrie. He doesn’t win a ring in Miami without Ray Allen. It’s a team sport and always will be

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Well, he never left the East because he only played in 2 cities. I guarantee it had nothing to do with the West being stacked. Because end of the day, you are defined by ring count.

LeBron changes teams twice before coming to LA. The first was Miami to play with his friends, The second was a return to Cleveland where he had unfinished business.

It is beyond foolish to assume he never left the East because “the West was stacked”. If Wade and Bosh has played a West team, he would have gone there.

Also, showing up in the Finals with a team that had no realistic shot to actually win it is pretty meaningless for a player trying to achieve GOAT status. LeBron arguably did that 4 times in Cleveland. A stronger support cast in the West would have given him a better shot at the title despite greatly reduced odds of getting through to the Finals.

He played his entire career in the East until going to LA, because he chose to play in the East. He went to Miami, because that is where he, Wade and Bosh chose to play.
The whole, he went back to Cleveland, because he had unfinished business sounds nice, but he only went back because they had Kyrie Irvin and had agreed, in principle, to deal away Wiggins and whatever else to get Kevin Love.
If Bosh didn't start having issues and Wade hadn't lost a step -- he wouldn't have left Miami. And if Cleveland didn't have multiple #1 picks (what 3 in 4 years), including a star in Kyrie -- Lebron never would have given Cleveland a second thought.

Lebron is a tremendous talent, but he is a guy who needs a closer next to him. It is why he has bounced to so many teams handpicking his teammates.

It is a shame -- I truly wish Lebron had that killer instinct that other greats had, like MJ, like Kobe, etc. I think he is the most physically gifted player in NBA history, but I'd never put him in the GOAT conversation.

 

[tlance]

Yeah, because the 9-7 Titans were so dominant all season long.

You are talking about 1 year.

The Patriots have been title contenders every single year Brady has been their QB. Just as LeBron’s teams have almost always been top title contenders. Just like LeBron’s teams.

That is the main reason why people them. If they weren’t so damn good, nobody would care about the nit picky reasons they find to dislike them.

 

[tlance]

He played his entire career in the East until going to LA, because he chose to play in the East. He went to Miami, because that is where he, Wade and Bosh chose to play.
The whole, he went back to Cleveland, because he had unfinished business sounds nice, but he only went back because they had Kyrie Irvin and had agreed, in principle, to deal away Wiggins and whatever else to get Kevin Love.
If Bosh didn't start having issues and Wade hadn't lost a step -- he wouldn't have left Miami. And if Cleveland didn't have multiple #1 picks (what 3 in 4 years), including a star in Kyrie -- Lebron never would have given Cleveland a second thought.

Lebron is a tremendous talent, but he is a guy who needs a closer next to him. It is why he has bounced to so many teams handpicking his teammates.

It is a shame -- I truly wish Lebron had that killer instinct that other greats had, like MJ, like Kobe, etc. I think he is the most physically gifted player in NBA history, but I'd never put him in the GOAT conversation.

And what have Irving and Love won with LeBron?

I got news for you, they are both talented players, but extremely flawed.

No, LeBron doesn’t go back to Cleveland if they didn’t have the assets to compete. That is given. But there were other places he would have chosen over Cleveland if he were purely ring chasing.

Cleveland was as good as they were during that era because of LeBron and his leadership. Yes he needed good support players, like every superstar does.

And this thread is not about comparing LeBron to Jordan. But the fact that you brought that up proves how amazing his career has been. Because he is in the conversation and he deserves to be.