Is Kubiak really quitting?

[Oldschool739]

Haha well I like your Avi you have so I will just say keep what you got. Not really the way I wanted to win our Avi by both our teams missing the playoffs.

Thanks, I was gonna do the same if I won. We'll get em next year !!
Who do you think Elway will hire to coach next yr ?
I'm hearing Kyle Shanny , what's the word in Denver ?

 

[cdumler7]

Thanks, I was gonna do the same if I won. We'll get em next year !!
Who do you think Elway will hire to coach next yr ?
I'm hearing Kyle Shanny , what's the word in Denver ?

Kyle Shanahan definitely is the front-runner. Fits everything Elway said he is looking for. I was actually surprised Elway gave away a lot at his press conference of what they want...

1) Young smart coach--most likely eliminates most of the retread coaches.
2) Guy who can develop Paxton Lynch
3) Great communicator between players/coaches/FO

So Shanahan fits all of those criteria. He is a hot commodity though as I think he has the most interviews set up of any HC candidate this week. So have to see how well the interview goes. Almost seems like it might be more the teams trying to sell themselves to him instead of him trying to sell himself to them.

I also worry a bit about the rift between John Elway and Kyle's dad Mike. Something happened at the end of Elway's career to the point that when asked to come back and work with the Broncos after he retired from playing Elway said something along the lines of "I won't come back as long as Mike is here." So have to see how well they have patched up their issues.

Beyond Shanahan would probably be Vance Joseph the DC of the Dolphins. Broncos loved him back when they were hiring Kubiak to be HC. He was the first choice for DC but something happened where the Bengals blocked it from happening.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

The conversation started over a comment by oldschool that he is a hall of famer. He is not, and not even close.

Not sure why anybody would think that...he has too small of a body of work.

 

[cdumler7]

Not sure why anybody would think that...he has too small of a body of work.

Well plenty of other coaches with a much longer body of work that don't have close to the Championship this guy has. 4 rings, success wherever he has gone, and offensive system that now has a coaching tree branching off from it and is finding success with other teams. Not saying that means HOF but I don't think we should just dismiss him right away with either from the conversation.

Heck Don Coryell is getting consideration without having won a Super Bowl. Has a similar winning percentage as a HC.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Well plenty of other coaches with a much longer body of work that don't have close to the Championship this guy has. 4 rings, success wherever he has gone, and offensive system that now has a coaching tree branching off from it and is finding success with other teams. Not saying that means HOF but I don't think we should just dismiss him right away with either from the conversation.

Heck Don Coryell is getting consideration without having won a Super Bowl. Has a similar winning percentage as a HC.

He has 4 rings but not as a player and only 1 as a head coach of a team he inherited. It's not the same as if he had 4 as a HC or Player.

At this point in time he is not HoF material.

 

[cdumler7]

He has 4 rings but not as a player and only 1 as a head coach of a team he inherited. It's not the same as if he had 4 as a HC or Player.

At this point in time he is not HoF material.

So then why is Coryell getting considered for the HOF? He didn't win a single Super Bowl as a coach. Only won 3 playoff games his entire coaching career. Kubiak did that just last year alone. Again not saying he is HOF worthy. I'm just saying he should at least be considered. He has just as high a profile as some of these other coaches that have gotten in. He is nowhere near the best coach but he has been a very good coach that has had his influences being shown throughout the NFL.

 

[NEPatsfan]

So then why is Coryell getting considered for the HOF? He didn't win a single Super Bowl as a coach. Only won 3 playoff games his entire coaching career. Kubiak did that just last year alone. Again not saying he is HOF worthy. I'm just saying he should at least be considered. He has just as high a profile as some of these other coaches that have gotten in. He is nowhere near the best coach but he has been a very good coach that has had his influences being shown throughout the NFL.

What does Coryell have to do with anything? I never brought him up.

 

[cdumler7]

What does Coryell have to do with anything? I never brought him up.

Well he has been a finalist for the NFL HOF as a coach without having won a Super Bowl. So you seem to be caught up on this whole Kubiak's Super Bowls are not worth much thing but at least he has won quite a few and been to quite a few in his career as a coach and player.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Well he has been a finalist for the NFL HOF as a coach without having won a Super Bowl. So you seem to be caught up on this whole Kubiak's Super Bowls are not worth much thing but at least he has won quite a few and been to quite a few in his career as a coach and player.

Sure, except I didn't bring him up.

 

[cdumler7]

Sure, except I didn't bring him up.

Did I ever say you did? I'm the one who brought him up. I was using him as an example. You say he shouldn't be considered for the HOF but there are coaches with much less on their resumes than him being considered right now. So if guys with lesser Resumes are possibly getting in then why shouldn't Kubiak?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Anytime you have a coach or player who transformed the game like Coryell you're going to get some favorable treatment. The Air Coryell survives in many ways to this day, and for that reason, Dan will always be linked to the HOF. Kubiak is quite frankly the antithesis of that.

 

[cdumler7]

Anytime you have a coach or player who transformed the game like Coryell you're going to get some favorable treatment. The Air Coryell survives in many ways to this day, and for that reason, Dan will always be linked to the HOF.

I understand why he is being linked to the HOF. I'm more just using him as an example of a coach who doesn't have any Super Bowls yet is still being considered. And I'm also not sure with NEPatsfan what he actually considers true criteria for being a coach inducted into the HOF. At one point he said Kubiak's Super Bowls were all junk and he had very little to do with winning them. Then he said that he only won one as a HC so that is why he shouldn't win one.

Then he doesn't know when and how Kubiak won all of his Super Bowls. So hard to follow where he is going with everything.

Honestly I don't think Kubiak gets in even as senior candidate down the road. I do think he is in that next group though.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Did I ever say you did? I'm the one who brought him up. I was using him as an example. You say he shouldn't be considered for the HOF but there are coaches with much less on their resumes than him being considered right now. So if guys with lesser Resumes are possibly getting in then why shouldn't Kubiak?

Because they likely shouldn't either.

 

[cdumler7]

Because they likely shouldn't either.

Ok so what are your criteria for being in the HOF as a coach? And who decides what Super Bowls are actually allowed to count for a coach? I mean every single one of Kubiak's you have dismissed as him not being a part of why they won it. So can Belichick count any of his? I mean we can point to Brady joining the team and say he is the reason those have been won.

 

[NEPatsfan]

I understand why he is being linked to the HOF. I'm more just using him as an example of a coach who doesn't have any Super Bowls yet is still being considered. And I'm also not sure with NEPatsfan what he actually considers true criteria for being a coach inducted into the HOF. At one point he said Kubiak's Super Bowls were all junk and he had very little to do with winning them. Then he said that he only won one as a HC so that is why he shouldn't win one.

Then he doesn't know when and how Kubiak won all of his Super Bowls. So hard to follow where he is going with everything.

Honestly I don't think Kubiak gets in even as senior candidate down the road. I do think he is in that next group though.

And you nearly got everything wrong or out of context to fit your narrative. Good job, here's a have a doggie biscuit, good boooy.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Ok so what are your criteria for being in the HOF as a coach? And who decides what Super Bowls are actually allowed to count for a coach? I mean every single one of Kubiak's you have dismissed as him not being a part of why they won it. So can Belichick count any of his? I mean we can point to Brady joining the team and say he is the reason those have been won.

You can start by not putting Kubiak anywhere near Belichicks plane.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Did I ever say you did? I'm the one who brought him up. I was using him as an example. You say he shouldn't be considered for the HOF but there are coaches with much less on their resumes than him being considered right now. So if guys with lesser Resumes are possibly getting in then why shouldn't Kubiak?

I agree with @NEPatsfan. You're using Coryell's weak record to make Kubiak look like a better case for the HOF. I don't buy either one, but of the 2, I'd put Coryell in as a coach/contributor before Kubiak. First, keep in mind that Coryell is not in the HOF and even though he was considered last year, he missed the cut.

Sure, Coryell has a weak record, 111-89-1 and 3-6 in the playoffs with 2 losses in the AFCCG and zero SB appearances. That, alone, is rather weak, but that isn't the whole story. He is being considered primarily b/c he was an offensive innovator that introduced/invented new several new passing concepts based on Gillman's theories, things like the route tree, the timing pattern, and the deep-to-shallow read philosophy (the "vertical passing game"). It helps that so many of his coaching disciples have gotten in and they keep crediting him and his inventions as a basis for their success.

Kubiak was an underrated coach imo, but he's not a HOF coach and it's not really close. If you're only gonna coach for 10 years, then you better have a pretty strong case. 10 years as a HC with only 3 playoff seasons and 3 seasons with losing records. 2 playoff wins in 8 years with the Texans, then he gets a Gruden SB by taking over the team that got to the SB the year before without him and then ends up 3rd in his division the next season (albeit 9-7). Pointing out the SB wins he got as an assistant coach or player only highlights how weak his HOF coaching case is.

 

[cdumler7]

You can start by not putting Kubiak anywhere near Belichicks plane.

Well you dismissed every Super Bowl of Kubiak's. Your only reason was given for his HC one where he inherited the team. The others gave no reason of why. As for the HC one and inheriting a team well it just goes to show how much having a great HC makes a difference. Fox with the same group bounced in the divisional playoffs by the Colts at home in an embarrassing game. Kubiak the next season takes that same group and wins a Super Bowl. Not much different personnel wise and Manning completely fell off a cliff talent wise. Yet hey they went and won a Super Bowl. But yup Kubiak had nothing to do with that.

 

[cdumler7]

I agree with @NEPatsfan. You're using Coryell's weak record to make Kubiak look like a better case for the HOF. I don't buy either one, but of the 2, I'd put Coryell in as a coach/contributor before Kubiak. First, keep in mind that Coryell is not in the HOF and even though he was considered last year, he missed the cut.

Sure, Coryell has a weak record, 111-89-1 and 3-6 in the playoffs with 2 losses in the AFCCG and zero SB appearances. That, alone, is rather weak, but that isn't the whole story. He is being considered primarily b/c he was an offensive innovator that introduced/invented new several new passing concepts based on Gillman's theories, things like the route tree and the timing pattern. It helps that so many of his coaching disciples have gotten in and they keep crediting him and his inventions as a basis for their success.

Kubiak was an underrated coach imo, but he's not a HOF coach and it's not really close. If you're only gonna coach for 10 years, then you better have a pretty strong case. 10 years as a HC with only 3 playoff seasons. 2 playoff wins in 8 years with the Texans, then he gets a Gruden SB by taking over the team that got to the SB the year before without him and then ends up 3rd in his division the next season (albeit 9-7). Pointing out the SB wins he got as an assistant coach or player only highlights how weak his HOF coaching case is.

Again if you actually read what I have wrote I have never said that he is HOF worthy. All I"ve said is he deserves to be considered. That doesn't mean in. I think something like 100 people a year get considered for the HOF and then they narrow it down to 25 then on down to the final group. I put Kubiak in the Hall of Very Good coaches. That next tier because of his work with many organizations and finding success everywhere he has gone. His offensive system while becoming a little more obsolete because they have put in rule changes because of his system working so well (and because they deemed it a bit dangerous) is seen throughout the league. Most teams run some of the very same plays the Broncos ran in the 90's.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Again if you actually read what I have wrote I have never said that he is HOF worthy. All I"ve said is he deserves to be considered. That doesn't mean in.

Though I said Kubiak was underrated, I wouldn't even consider him for the HOF. It's Coryell's offensive concepts and extensive (and successful) coaching tree that first got him considered back in 2010. Kubiak doesn't have a feather like that in his cap.