Interesting Tweet regarding UNC

[Lumbee09]

Nice tidbit of info from packpride this afternoon. Apparently Butchie has refused the NCAA's request for his 216 phone records and his bank records from 2008-2010 through his lawyer. Wonder what he's hiding???

 

[hunzworth]

Nice tidbit of info from packpride this afternoon. Apparently Butchie has refused the NCAA's request for his 216 phone records and his bank records from 2008-2010 through his lawyer. Wonder what he's hiding???

If true, i'd guess this is the beginning of the end for butch. I think we all kinda figured he wouldnt want to release the records from that phone, but the refusal of the bank records makes me wonder what else is going on down there.

 

[Lumbee09]

If true, i'd guess this is the beginning of the end for butch. I think we all kinda figured he wouldnt want to release the records from that phone, but the refusal of the bank records makes me wonder what else is going on down there.

I'm not sure if the NCAA will actually be able to get the records, but his denial alone should shed that whole cooperation that has kept them from getting LOIC so far. I'd be surprised if butch lasts the whole season. Then again, I thought that last year hah.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

A curious question:

Has anyone met an ACTUAL graduate from UNC who is not embarrassed by this? I work with and around quite a few UNC grads (they have a fantastic medical and public health school) and they are all embarrassed by this.

We know dafunk never went there. He has told us as much. Maybe this is a townie thing. Maybe most ofthe grads ARE embarrassed.

Who knows...

 

[hunzworth]

I'm not sure if the NCAA will actually be able to get the records, but his denial alone should shed that whole cooperation that has kept them from getting LOIC so far. I'd be surprised if butch lasts the whole season. Then again, I thought that last year hah.

From what i've read because he obviously used his private phone for business matters, UNC can force him to turn over those records. Either way: If he doesnt turn them over, the NCAA will frown heavily on not cooperating. If he does have to turn them over, i'd bet he gets hammered for what they find. In either of these situations i could see UNC firing butch in hopes the NCAA would go easier on them.

 

[amszete]

Every now and then I have to work within one of the Army bases with a few UNC alumn and they are DEFINITELY embarassed by all of this and want Butch out pronto. It is also kind of sad for they are also heckled beyond belief by alot of SEC / BIG 10 fans which is kind of lame. What we see / experience on the ACC Board by the few UNC fans who are not alumni is definitely not the norm.

 

[Lumbee09]

Every now and then I have to work within one of the Army bases with a few UNC alumn and they are DEFINITELY embarassed by all of this and want Butch out pronto. It is also kind of sad for they are also heckled beyond belief by alot of SEC / BIG 10 fans which is kind of lame. What we see / experience on the ACC Board by the few UNC fans who are not alumni is definitely not the norm.

The anti-Butch UNC fans are definitely outspoken by the pro-Butch fans. Even the UNC Board was split on whether to keep or fire Butch, and the pro-Butch board members obviously won the vote. It's really an issue that UNC fans either fall on one side or the other, there's not much middle ground. For the most part, the naive fans that buy what Butch has sold are for him, the rest are against.

 

[amszete]

The anti-Butch UNC fans are definitely outspoken by the pro-Butch fans. Even the UNC Board was split on whether to keep or fire Butch, and the pro-Butch board members obviously won the vote. It's really an issue that UNC fans either fall on one side or the other, there's not much middle ground. For the most part, the naive fans that buy what Butch has sold are for him, the rest are against.

I totally hear you. I guess I should have taken it a step further to say the more grounded UNC alumni / folks that have been around a while tend to feel the way I mentioned. Pretty much every UNC fan that I have had the chance to speak with has felt the same - they love their univeristy so much (just as we do) that they will do whatever it takes to make things right. Those who are pretenders (UNC wigger type fans that love to win and that is it) should be excluded / not taken seriously. But as you say, unfortunately the low class type of fan who is all about the "W" are out-voicing those that really love their alma mater.

 

[vtpoop]

Honestly, I don't know what UNC's administration is thinking. They seem to be prepared to go down on a sinking ship at all costs with Butch. Why? They've never been a football school, never had much football success except for a few random seasons here and there. Why sacrifice the integrity and reputation that so many have spent so long to build over a slimeball like Butch? I honestly don't get it.
Just cut your losses, admit you made a mistake, let him go and clean up the mess. But the continued stonewalling from the administration, even as more and more dirt comes out, makes it look like the entire university is in on the shenanigans. Unless Butch has dirt on basketball and is holding the university hostage with that, I am at a loss as to their actions.

 

[EvanGWatkins]

Honestly, I don't know what UNC's administration is thinking. They seem to be prepared to go down on a sinking ship at all costs with Butch. Why? They've never been a football school, never had much football success except for a few random seasons here and there. Why sacrifice the integrity and reputation that so many have spent so long to build over a slimeball like Butch? I honestly don't get it.
Just cut your losses, admit you made a mistake, let him go and clean up the mess. But the continued stonewalling from the administration, even as more and more dirt comes out, makes it look like the entire university is in on the shenanigans. Unless Butch has dirt on basketball and is holding the university hostage with that, I am at a loss as to their actions.

He signs big recruits which brings in money because people get the false hope that they will be good. This puts butts in the seats and money in the pockets of UNC. This money is helping to fund the stadium upgrades that have been going on. On top of that, it is rumored that BD has some close friends that are helping fund the stadium revamp through multiple business ties.

If it is true that he has some friends donating LOTS of money to the program to get this stuff built, then that could be a major reason why the school will "support" him until the very last moment. I think that he is toast but that is just my $.02

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Part of me is fine with him staying. He is one Ryan Willams fumble away from being 1-14? against VT, UVA and NCState. If he is put on lock down probation and given ample punishment (scholy reductions, bowl bans) then he is forced to behave and we all know that he can't coach.

UNC is a national brand and has very good facilities so I am almost worried about who his replacement would be and what he would do with that talent.

 

[amszete]

Honestly, I don't know what UNC's administration is thinking. They seem to be prepared to go down on a sinking ship at all costs with Butch. Why? They've never been a football school, never had much football success except for a few random seasons here and there. Why sacrifice the integrity and reputation that so many have spent so long to build over a slimeball like Butch? I honestly don't get it.
Just cut your losses, admit you made a mistake, let him go and clean up the mess. But the continued stonewalling from the administration, even as more and more dirt comes out, makes it look like the entire university is in on the shenanigans. Unless Butch has dirt on basketball and is holding the university hostage with that, I am at a loss as to their actions.

================
This is a pretty good question. Like Evan's answer - he is has been filling seats for sure. However I also think the administration/ AD at UNC (just like what happened at OSU, USC, etc.) will be stubborn to make a move here. These are the people that are responsibile for bringing this person in (under their watch). So this is all a direct reflection on them. The only way they will get rid of Butch is if something damning is found by the NCAA. And when that happens, expect the AD to resign as well as other high ranking officials that may have been close to Butchie Boy. This will probably play out as what happened at TN. Mike Hamilton (former AD) brought in slime and it took a long time for him to be forced out. We all know Kiffin was shady, but it took Perl directly going against the NCAA (lying I believe) for Hamilton to "resign". And even then it took a while for Hamilton to resign (right before they met with the NCAA).

 

[vtpoop]

He signs big recruits which brings in money because people get the false hope that they will be good. This puts butts in the seats and money in the pockets of UNC. This money is helping to fund the stadium upgrades that have been going on. On top of that, it is rumored that BD has some close friends that are helping fund the stadium revamp through multiple business ties.

If it is true that he has some friends donating LOTS of money to the program to get this stuff built, then that could be a major reason why the school will "support" him until the very last moment. I think that he is toast but that is just my $.02

I understand the recruiting aspect, but at some point the coach has to deliver the goods on the field and that hasn't happened. As Jim Alderson said, the 9 major infractions are one more than the highest amount of wins Butch has had in one season at UNC. And to boot, he is 0-4 against his biggest in-state football rival (one that doesn't recruit particularly well at that).
Imagine this hypothetical. Beamer retires and VT brings in Saban (I know, it ain't going to happen, but it's a hypothetical). He brings in dozens of 5-star recruits, but goes 0-4 against Virginia. I couldn't imagine there would be much patience for him.
I've heard the rumor about the big-money donors and you are probably on to something there. But at the same time, my UNC friends have told me their endowments and wealthy alumni contributors rival those of Stanford. If they were serious about football, I'd think they could come up with the money for stadium improvements without Butch's cronies. And if Butch does have lots of friends with deep pockets, that just adds to the level of suspicions of shady stuff with Butch.
Anyway, not a knock on you Evan. Just this whole episode seems to mystify me more and more with each passing day and with each new twist to the story.

 

[amszete]

================
This is a pretty good question. Like Evan's answer - he is has been filling seats for sure. However I also think the administration/ AD at UNC (just like what happened at OSU, USC, etc.) will be stubborn to make a move here. These are the people that are responsibile for bringing this person in (under their watch). So this is all a direct reflection on them. The only way they will get rid of Butch is if something damning is found by the NCAA. And when that happens, expect the AD to resign as well as other high ranking officials that may have been close to Butchie Boy. This will probably play out as what happened at TN. Mike Hamilton (former AD) brought in slime and it took a long time for him to be forced out. We all know Kiffin was shady, but it took Perl directly going against the NCAA (lying I believe) for Hamilton to "resign". And even then it took a while for Hamilton to resign (right before they met with the NCAA).

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Damn I need to read what I write before hitting the 'Submit Reply' button. What a chocolate mess as far as misspelling goes...

 

[EvanGWatkins]

I understand the recruiting aspect, but at some point the coach has to deliver the goods on the field and that hasn't happened. As Jim Alderson said, the 9 major infractions are one more than the highest amount of wins Butch has had in one season at UNC. And to boot, he is 0-4 against his biggest in-state football rival (one that doesn't recruit particularly well at that).
Imagine this hypothetical. Beamer retires and VT brings in Saban (I know, it ain't going to happen, but it's a hypothetical). He brings in dozens of 5-star recruits, but goes 0-4 against Virginia. I couldn't imagine there would be much patience for him.
I've heard the rumor about the big-money donors and you are probably on to something there. But at the same time, my UNC friends have told me their endowments and wealthy alumni contributors rival those of Stanford. If they were serious about football, I'd think they could come up with the money for stadium improvements without Butch's cronies. And if Butch does have lots of friends with deep pockets, that just adds to the level of suspicions of shady stuff with Butch.
Anyway, not a knock on you Evan. Just this whole episode seems to mystify me more and more with each passing day and with each new twist to the story.

No problem, just stating what I have heard.

 

[HokieGhost]

Carolina Blues by Andy Staples
Carolina Blues - 07.04.11 - SI Vault

QUOTE:

"Any discussion of the litany of allegations the NCAA hurled at North Carolina last week must begin with these two: The Tar Heels allegedly employed an agent's runner as its associate head coach, and a woman employed by coach Butch Davis to tutor his son provided several players improper assistance. If proven, those violations rank alongside any of the last decade."

....and....

"Davis has taken the stance that those who remain ignorant should remain gainfully employed. But even if he somehow keeps his job, he probably won't find it so appealing once the NCAA is finished with the Heels."

Sports Illustrated has 3.5 million regular subscribers nationwide. 23 million read the magazine on a regular basis. Is this the national level wake-up slap in the face that will cause the major UNC boosters...particularly the big-money basketball donors...to take action to force Davis out? Their former pristine reputation is being torn to shreds...the quicker they act, the more they can salvage from the sinking ship. Only time will tell.

 

[vtpoop]

Carolina Blues by Andy Staples
Carolina Blues - 07.04.11 - SI Vault

QUOTE:

"Any discussion of the litany of allegations the NCAA hurled at North Carolina last week must begin with these two: The Tar Heels allegedly employed an agent's runner as its associate head coach, and a woman employed by coach Butch Davis to tutor his son provided several players improper assistance. If proven, those violations rank alongside any of the last decade."

....and....

"Davis has taken the stance that those who remain ignorant should remain gainfully employed. But even if he somehow keeps his job, he probably won't find it so appealing once the NCAA is finished with the Heels."

Sports Illustrated has 3.5 million regular subscribers nationwide. 23 million read the magazine on a regular basis. Is this the national level wake-up slap in the face that will cause the major UNC boosters...particularly the big-money basketball donors...to take action to force Davis out? Their former pristine reputation is being torn to shreds...the quicker they act, the more they can salvage from the sinking ship. Only time will tell.

LOL, I love it. I saw this yesterday and the first thing it made me think of was another SI piece from the mid-90s about a major college football program. I guess you could say UNC has finally made the big time since they are now in the same company as this program.

I actually tried to post the same thing on packpride, but can't post pictures there for some reason. BTW, my handle there and at statefansnation is TireBowl.

 

[757Hokie83]

LOL, I love it. I saw this yesterday and the first thing it made me think of was another SI piece from the mid-90s about a major college football program. I guess you could say UNC has finally made the big time since they are now in the same company as this program.

I actually tried to post the same thing on packpride, but can't post pictures there for some reason. BTW, my handle there and at statefansnation is TireBowl.

i think ive still got that issue in my old room at my parents house, lol

 

[HokieGhost]

I almost got physically ill when I read this...

Facts Optional in UNC Investigation? CBS Charlotte

QUOTE:

"With the turmoil surrounding the Tar Heel football program, there have been countless incidents of misinformation or ill-informed opinions flowing from message boards and various media sources, but my cumulative dismay paled in comparison to the pain I felt when reading two recent SI pieces on the NCAA’s Notice of Allegations (NOA) to UNC. When Stewart Mandel wrote a reaction piece to the NOA, I dismissed some errors as product of the quick turnaround, but when Andy Staples weighed in this week and declared the ‘NCAA should hammer the Heels’ but supported his argument with inaccuracies and sensationalized generalizations something had to be said."

How delusional do you have to be to actually write something like this and then attach your name to it??

 

[vtpoop]

I almost got physically ill when I read this...

Facts Optional in UNC Investigation? CBS Charlotte

QUOTE:

"With the turmoil surrounding the Tar Heel football program, there have been countless incidents of misinformation or ill-informed opinions flowing from message boards and various media sources, but my cumulative dismay paled in comparison to the pain I felt when reading two recent SI pieces on the NCAA’s Notice of Allegations (NOA) to UNC. When Stewart Mandel wrote a reaction piece to the NOA, I dismissed some errors as product of the quick turnaround, but when Andy Staples weighed in this week and declared the ‘NCAA should hammer the Heels’ but supported his argument with inaccuracies and sensationalized generalizations something had to be said."

How delusional do you have to be to actually write something like this and then attach your name to it??

That's why I am glad the SIs and Charles Robinsons of the world exist to expose UNC for what they've done and hold them to the fire for it. About 99 percent of the North Carolina-based media seems to be on the Heels' payroll. It's actually kind of sad to think what kind of dirt could have been dug up by now if someone down there did their job. With the exception of just a couple like J.P. Giglio, the rest of the media has their collective heads in the sand as much as the Tar Heel faithful.