POLL If prime Jordan played in today's NBA - would he be the best?

[lebron23james]

Golden State didn’t need to add Durant — they won a championship before he even got there and will compete for titles once Klay is back and healthy.

Toronto didn’t have anything close to the talent Lebron had in Miami and his 2nd Cleveland stint. Kawhi just carried them to a championship.

And the Durant situation was a stroke of genius by GSW. They took advantage of building their team thru the draft and the cap space getting a bump to be able to add Durant. No other team in the NBA could have done what GSW did, so joining already made teams isn’t an option. It is why he handpicked his teammates in Miami, then when it became clear Miami wasn’t going to win anymore, he went back to Cleveland. No because it was his hometown (though that was a small reason), but because they had Kyrie and two other #1 picks they could trade to add Kevin Love.

I used to be a HUGE Lebron fan. I still have a framed autographed rookie jersey of his. When he went on ESPN and left his hometown team high and dry to chase a title — I lost a ton of respect. As a person/father/husband — he is the ultimate role model. His basketball career will have go down as one of the best to play the game, but he will never be in the GOAT conversation unless someone is just trying to get a rise out of another basketball fan.
He jumped ship chasing rings so much — it is kind of sad. I actually feel bad because he went to LA and they had to empty their roster and 3 1st round picks to get someone to join him there. 2 years with max contracts they had to offer and they couldn’t get anyone to join him.

GS won a championship when the Cavs were missing 2 of their 3 best players (lol) Then the following year lost when those 2 players came back. They never proved they could win anything without Durant imo...And still haven't, losing to both Toronto and Cle without Durant

Kawhi only "carried" that team to a championship because Durant and Thompson got hurt...Very similar to when the cavs lost 2 players. It's kinda hard to recover from losing 2 stars, in case you never noticed. Toronto gets about as much credit in winning that championship as GS does for winning their first one.

Gs is not competing for championships now or next year...Or ever again imo but that is yet to play out, with tons of excuses from tlance

The reason why he isn't going to be the GOAT comes down to what i said earlier. He didn't play GM very well. He likely would have a lot more rings had he chose his teams more wisely.

 

[lebron23james]

Good post. I agree, Lebron could have done a better job creating a super team. The biggest problem with Lebron's career is he played most of it in Cleveland where it is hard to recruit great talent as opposed to a destination city which is why he had to leave Cleveland and rely on his marginal GM skills to try and create a championship team. Plus, having an agenda of playing with his friends or landing near Hollywood doesn't help.

Yeah that was part of it for sure. Lebron also was so good so early it prevented him from being surrounded with other top picks...Like most teams can do when building on their superstar rookie. Also the Boozer back stabbing didn't help...

His bad GM skills and team choosing didn't help either

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

GS won a championship when the Cavs were missing 2 of their 3 best players (lol) Then the following year lost when those 2 players came back. They never proved they could win anything without Durant imo...And still haven't, losing to both Toronto and Cle without Durant

Kawhi only "carried" that team to a championship because Durant and Thompson got hurt...Very similar to when the cavs lost 2 players. It's kinda hard to recover from losing 2 stars, in case you never noticed. Toronto gets about as much credit in winning that championship as GS does for winning their first one.

Gs is not competing for championships now or next year...Or ever again imo but that is yet to play out, with tons of excuses from tlance

The reason why he isn't going to be the GOAT comes down to what i said earlier. He didn't play GM very well. He likely would have a lot more rings had he chose his teams more wisely.

GSW went 73-9 WITHOUT Durant to set the NBA record for the regular season and were winning 3-1 in the NBA finals and Cleveland won after Green was suspended for game 5 and it sparked Cleveland to the first comeback from 3-1 down in NBA history.

Toronto’s only superstar was Kawhi. Kyle Lowery is the next best player (Lowery is a very good player, but definitely not in the superstar convo). Toronto wasn’t pieced together like the super teams with 3 superstars. Kawhi was it. They just had solid players who played their role and a bench that contributed.

When Klay Thompson comes back — GSW will still be a force with Klay, Steph and Draymond.

And you keep saying Lebron could have joined a different team, but don’t say who. Where was he going to go?!? Why couldn’t he get players to come join him in Cleveland? Just like with the Lakers — no big FA wanted to go to Cleveland. It took leaving Cleveland high and dry, where they ended up with 3 #1 picks to get Kyrie and ammunition to trade for Love to get Lebron back, once he realized he wasn’t winning with Miami again.

I love Lebron and he will go down as one of the top 3, top 4, top 5 type player. When your record in the NBA finals is 18-31 — you aren’t going to be the GOAT. I still give him props for the dad/father/husband he is — because so many athletes are blowing money and living a wild life and he seems to be all about the family while he is still with his HS sweetheart if I’m not mistaken.

 

[lebron23james]

GSW went 73-9 WITHOUT Durant to set the NBA record for the regular season and were winning 3-1 in the NBA finals and Cleveland won after Green was suspended for game 5 and it sparked Cleveland to the first comeback from 3-1 down in NBA history.

Toronto’s only superstar was Kawhi. Kyle Lowery is the next best player (Lowery is a very good player, but definitely not in the superstar convo). Toronto wasn’t pieced together like the super teams with 3 superstars. Kawhi was it. They just had solid players who played their role and a bench that contributed.

When Klay Thompson comes back — GSW will still be a force with Klay, Steph and Draymond.

And you keep saying Lebron could have joined a different team, but don’t say who. Where was he going to go?!? Why couldn’t he get players to come join him in Cleveland? Just like with the Lakers — no big FA wanted to go to Cleveland. It took leaving Cleveland high and dry, where they ended up with 3 #1 picks to get Kyrie and ammunition to trade for Love to get Lebron back, once he realized he wasn’t winning with Miami again.

I love Lebron and he will go down as one of the top 3, top 4, top 5 type player. When your record in the NBA finals is 18-31 — you aren’t going to be the GOAT. I still give him props for the dad/father/husband he is — because so many athletes are blowing money and living a wild life and he seems to be all about the family while he is still with his HS sweetheart if I’m not mistaken.

So green missing 1 game and caused a 73-9 team to never recover. Green played in game 6 and 7 right? Imagine if he missed the entire series like Love and Irving (a much better player) did...Would they have been swept? You must be pretty "high" on Green.

GS has never beaten a team without durant besides lebrons when he was missing both of his stars...Not much to really hang your hat on as mission accomplished lol

Toronto had Siakam who averaged 17 ppg, Ibaka who averaged 15 ppg, Danny Green, Marc Gasol...They had stars with less hype.

Players don't just come back from ACL injuries...See Demarcus Cousins...It typically gets reinjured, because of the high level of play. In rec leagues it's fine...If you look over the list of players who had ACL tears almost all of them flamed out at some point after coming back. Toronto wasn't going to win tho without the same luck GS got in 2015, ie 2 MAJOR injuries

I said Lebron could have gone to Philly, Mill, Tor...Learn to read

Lebron doesn't have to "get" players...That is the job of the teams GM....

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So green missing 1 game and caused a 73-9 team to never recover. Green played in game 6 and 7 right? Imagine if he missed the entire series like Love and Irving (a much better player) did...Would they have been swept? You must be pretty "high" on Green.

GS has never beaten a team without durant besides lebrons when he was missing both of his stars...Not much to really hang your hat on as mission accomplished lol

Toronto had Siakam who averaged 17 ppg, Ibaka who averaged 15 ppg, Danny Green, Marc Gasol...They had stars with less hype.

Players don't just come back from ACL injuries...See Demarcus Cousins...It typically gets reinjured, because of the high level of play. In rec leagues it's fine...If you look over the list of players who had ACL tears almost all of them flamed out at some point after coming back. Toronto wasn't going to win tho without the same luck GS got in 2015, ie 2 MAJOR injuries

I said Lebron could have gone to Philly, Mill, Tor...Learn to read

Lebron doesn't have to "get" players...That is the job of the teams GM....

ACL injuries are a dime a dozen. Achilles injuries are the bad ones, which is what DeMarcus Cousins had.

As I said — Toronto didn’t have other superstars. Kawhi didn’t need to handpick two other superstars to win a title. He did it without any other superstars.

And you can’t force players to sign with Lebron. In his career, the only superstars to willingly come play with Lebron are his two friends (Wade and Bosh).
1st stint in Cleveland — they couldn’t get anyone
2nd stint in Cleveland — Kyrie was already there and they traded for a guy who wanted out of his current team.
LA Lakers — two years of superstars he could have convinced to join him in LA. The largest FA class of superstars the NBA has ever seen. The only player they could get to LA was a guy they traded 3 former 1st round picks and 3 future 1st round picks to get. And two other superstars went to LA — it was just with the Clippers

 

[tlance]

So green missing 1 game and caused a 73-9 team to never recover. Green played in game 6 and 7 right? Imagine if he missed the entire series like Love and Irving (a much better player) did...Would they have been swept? You must be pretty "high" on Green.

GS has never beaten a team without durant besides lebrons when he was missing both of his stars...Not much to really hang your hat on as mission accomplished lol

Toronto had Siakam who averaged 17 ppg, Ibaka who averaged 15 ppg, Danny Green, Marc Gasol...They had stars with less hype.

Players don't just come back from ACL injuries...See Demarcus Cousins...It typically gets reinjured, because of the high level of play. In rec leagues it's fine...If you look over the list of players who had ACL tears almost all of them flamed out at some point after coming back. Toronto wasn't going to win tho without the same luck GS got in 2015, ie 2 MAJOR injuries

I said Lebron could have gone to Philly, Mill, Tor...Learn to read

Lebron doesn't have to "get" players...That is the job of the teams GM....

DeMarcus Cousins tore his ACL 2 weeks ago. LOL at using him for “proof”.

And you are totally wrong.

Some athletes come back stronger after ACL. It depends on age and a variety of other factors. Klay is young enough to come back as strong as ever.

 

[trojanfan12]

Just mentioned this.....totally different CBA back then. No max deals.

Not only that, but there was actually a time when free agency was more like a trade, because the team losing the free agent, had to be compensated by the team signing him.

It's how the Lakers acquired the draft pick that became Magic Johnson.

 

[trojanfan12]

while I agree he's wrong that no one would go there because, as you mention, AD did. However, much of the rest he said has some merit IMO.

There's no question that not all FA's wanted to play with Lebron. The reasons for that have been fairly well documented and they really don't have much to do with Lebron himself.

But his narrative was that none of them wanted to play with him, which AD clearly showed wasn't the case.

Even with Kawhi, the only reasons that I've heard as to why he chose the Clips were that he didn't want to be on a "superteam" (but still wanted another star) and that Magic not being able to keep his damn mouth shut, also hurt the Lakers.

Even with that, it's been said that if the Clips hadn't pulled off the PG trade, Kawhi would be a Laker.

 

[trojanfan12]

You don't think Lebron told PG his plans?

No idea. All I know is when each announced and that the timing of the announcement makes it look as though it wasn't part of PG's decision.

Also, considering it was announced at a party that Westbrook threw for him and that Westbrook spent basically the whole season trying to convince him to stay...it looks like the decision was made emotionally.

Him asking to be traded after only 1 season seems to support that as well.

 

[Bart]

No idea. All I know is when each announced and that the timing of the announcement makes it look as though it wasn't part of PG's decision.

Also, considering it was announced at a party that Westbrook threw for him and that Westbrook spent basically the whole season trying to convince him to stay...it looks like the decision was made emotionally.

Him asking to be traded after only 1 season seems to support that as well.

An obvious emotional decision, IMHO. It's not only the Lakers he didn't give a chance for a sales pitch but also the Clippers. Unless, of course, talks happened before free agency opened which could have happened, it appears nobody plays by the rules when it comes to free agency.

 

[trojanfan12]

An obvious emotional decision, IMHO. It's not only the Lakers he didn't give a chance for a sales pitch but also the Clippers. Unless, of course, talks happened before free agency opened which could have happened, it appears nobody plays by the rules when it comes to free agency.

Agree. Maybe if he took the time to look at things logically rather than emotionally...he still stays in OKC? Who knows?

But the timing and where he was, plus his own statement ("the Lakers didn't try hard enough to trade for me") and then asking for a trade after just 1 year, makes it look emotional.

 

[dtgold88]

GSW went 73-9 WITHOUT Durant to set the NBA record for the regular season and were winning 3-1 in the NBA finals and Cleveland won after Green was suspended for game 5 and it sparked Cleveland to the first comeback from 3-1 down in NBA history.

Toronto’s only superstar was Kawhi. Kyle Lowery is the next best player (Lowery is a very good player, but definitely not in the superstar convo). Toronto wasn’t pieced together like the super teams with 3 superstars. Kawhi was it. They just had solid players who played their role and a bench that contributed.

When Klay Thompson comes back — GSW will still be a force with Klay, Steph and Draymond.

And you keep saying Lebron could have joined a different team, but don’t say who. Where was he going to go?!? Why couldn’t he get players to come join him in Cleveland? Just like with the Lakers — no big FA wanted to go to Cleveland. It took leaving Cleveland high and dry, where they ended up with 3 #1 picks to get Kyrie and ammunition to trade for Love to get Lebron back, once he realized he wasn’t winning with Miami again.

I love Lebron and he will go down as one of the top 3, top 4, top 5 type player. When your record in the NBA finals is 18-31 — you aren’t going to be the GOAT. I still give him props for the dad/father/husband he is — because so many athletes are blowing money and living a wild life and he seems to be all about the family while he is still with his HS sweetheart if I’m not mistaken.

while you accuse him of ignoring reality why do you do the same? Once they resigned Kyrie then brought in Lebron the Cavs were over the cap. Also resigned Love to a max deal after the 2014-15 season. Who was he supposed to convince to play there other than guys like Wade, Deron Williams, Jeff Green, etc. who wanted to try for one last title or their first title?

would add maybe he couldn't get guys to go there because he knew he was not staying?

 

[dtgold88]

ACL injuries are a dime a dozen. Achilles injuries are the bad ones, which is what DeMarcus Cousins had.

As I said — Toronto didn’t have other superstars. Kawhi didn’t need to handpick two other superstars to win a title. He did it without any other superstars.

And you can’t force players to sign with Lebron. In his career, the only superstars to willingly come play with Lebron are his two friends (Wade and Bosh).
1st stint in Cleveland — they couldn’t get anyone
2nd stint in Cleveland — Kyrie was already there and they traded for a guy who wanted out of his current team.
LA Lakers — two years of superstars he could have convinced to join him in LA. The largest FA class of superstars the NBA has ever seen. The only player they could get to LA was a guy they traded 3 former 1st round picks and 3 future 1st round picks to get. And two other superstars went to LA — it was just with the Clippers

Mostly agree, but to be fair Love said he wanted to go to the Cavs and did agree to stay after his first season with Lebron. Only had cap room once the first time and brought in Larry Hughes. Injuries and personal issues derailed his time here but the guy was a stud his last year in Washington as a solid, 2-way PG.

 

[dtgold88]

There's no question that not all FA's wanted to play with Lebron. The reasons for that have been fairly well documented and they really don't have much to do with Lebron himself.

But his narrative was that none of them wanted to play with him, which AD clearly showed wasn't the case.

Even with Kawhi, the only reasons that I've heard as to why he chose the Clips were that he didn't want to be on a "superteam" (but still wanted another star) and that Magic not being able to keep his damn mouth shut, also hurt the Lakers.

Even with that, it's been said that if the Clips hadn't pulled off the PG trade, Kawhi would be a Laker.

I definitely agree his narrative "no one" wanted to play with him is way off. Happened here as well when Love said he wanted to be traded here just like AD did later.

Love agreed to stay after year 1 so now we'll see if AD does the same next offseason.

Seems now you hope AD = Love, huh?

 

[dtgold88]

No idea. All I know is when each announced and that the timing of the announcement makes it look as though it wasn't part of PG's decision.

Also, considering it was announced at a party that Westbrook threw for him and that Westbrook spent basically the whole season trying to convince him to stay...it looks like the decision was made emotionally.

Him asking to be traded after only 1 season seems to support that as well.

All when and good, but seems absurd to think Lebron and PG never even spoke about it.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

while you accuse him of ignoring reality why do you do the same? Once they resigned Kyrie then brought in Lebron the Cavs were over the cap. Also resigned Love to a max deal after the 2014-15 season. Who was he supposed to convince to play there other than guys like Wade, Deron Williams, Jeff Green, etc. who wanted to try for one last title or their first title?

would add maybe he couldn't get guys to go there because he knew he was not staying?

Yeah, because 2 other superstars isn’t enough for Lebron to play alongside

The ONLY reason GSW was able to pull off the Durant move is..........they drafted their superstars. Curry was grossly underpaid because he had ankle issues prior to the signing an 11 million a year deal. Also, the NBA raised the cap that year. No team will ever be able to pull that off again unless the stars align.

Yeah — he couldn’t get guys to go to Cleveland because ‘he wasn’t staying’ and he goes to LA and isn’t going anywhere, yet they can’t get any FA to sign with them. Hell — the Lakers had guys literally telling the media they were going to the Lakers and then don’t. Instead, they go to the Clippers. Must have liked the Clippers prestige as a franchise.

 

[Wamu]

Yeah, because 2 other superstars isn’t enough for Lebron to play alongside

The ONLY reason GSW was able to pull off the Durant move is..........they drafted their superstars. Curry was grossly underpaid because he had ankle issues prior to the signing an 11 million a year deal. Also, the NBA raised the cap that year. No team will ever be able to pull that off again unless the stars align.

Yeah — he couldn’t get guys to go to Cleveland because ‘he wasn’t staying’ and he goes to LA and isn’t going anywhere, yet they can’t get any FA to sign with them. Hell — the Lakers had guys literally telling the media they were going to the Lakers and then don’t. Instead, they go to the Clippers. Must have liked the Clippers prestige as a franchise.

Are you saying LeBron's the reason Kawhi signed w/ the Clippers & not the Lakers?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Mostly agree, but to be fair Love said he wanted to go to the Cavs and did agree to stay after his first season with Lebron. Only had cap room once the first time and brought in Larry Hughes. Injuries and personal issues derailed his time here but the guy was a stud his last year in Washington as a solid, 2-way PG.

Cleveland fans are saying the same thing as Lakers fans. What Love and Anthony Davis wanted, was to get out of their current situations.
Cleveland and LA happened to be the teams willing to sacrifice their future to get the deals done.

It doesn’t change the fact — Lebron spent half his career in Cleveland and couldn’t get a superstar to sign with him. He then went to LA and in the biggest FA class of superstars we’ve ever had — The Lakers signed no one. This was after Paul George shunned the Lakers after telling the world it was his dream to play for them. He is now in LA, but with the Clippers.

 

[lebron23james]

DeMarcus Cousins tore his ACL 2 weeks ago. LOL at using him for “proof”.

And you are totally wrong.

Some athletes come back stronger after ACL. It depends on age and a variety of other factors. Klay is young enough to come back as strong as ever.

I wouldn't bank on it. Plus his style of play racing around the court and hard cuts around the 3 point line, doesn't give me much confidence if you will in him not re-injuring it

 

[lebron23james]

Cleveland fans are saying the same thing as Lakers fans. What Love and Anthony Davis wanted, was to get out of their current situations.
Cleveland and LA happened to be the teams willing to sacrifice their future to get the deals done.

It doesn’t change the fact — Lebron spent half his career in Cleveland and couldn’t get a superstar to sign with him. He then went to LA and in the biggest FA class of superstars we’ve ever had — The Lakers signed no one. This was after Paul George shunned the Lakers after telling the world it was his dream to play for them. He is now in LA, but with the Clippers.

Okay but when Love came over to the Cavs, he was an unrestricted free agent. He resigned as a free agent, so your statement is already false off the bat.

We will see if AD resigns and that would make 2 stars signing with him in free agency.