I'd rather have Tristan or Whiteside Poll

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Dustin Fox

✔ @DustinFox37



"David Griffin wanted to get taken care of. I can't emphasize that enough. He was one of the lowest paid GM's in the league" @WindhorstESPN



150
9:24 AM - Jun 20, 2017
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@WiggyRuss

Isn't Windy your go to?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Water is wet

David Griffin Was 'Miserable' with Cavaliers, Knew He'd Leave After 2016 Title

He knew it, but instead, he negotiated to get low balled.

#sure

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

As I said NUMEROUS times to certain dumb-fucks--- Griffin didnt leave because of money.

He left because he was burnt out from "going for it"- and mortgaging every asset to try and win RIGHT NOW. He wanted to grow a team organically instead.

You said that when?
Summer of ‘17?
Where?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Below is how it was being presented at the time.
Did Griffin ever say anything to the contrary before now?
Why negotiate at all if you know your leaving?
#timevindicatesthatyouareamoron.

It is quite hard to argue that Cleveland Cavaliers franchise owner Dan Gilbert is cheap. Or, at least, it was hard to argue that before Gilbert parted ways with his general manager David Griffin over what appears to be stalled contract negotiations.

The Cavaliers had a massive $121 million payroll in 2016-17 and face a $45 million luxury tax bill on top of that. LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, and Kevin Love aren’t cheap, and re-signing Tristan Thompson, Iman Shumpert, and J.R. Smith in recent years got quite expensive. Cleveland will begin triggering the oppressive repeater tax in 2017-18, which will increase its inevitable luxury tax bill an additional 44 percent.

(The repeater tax enters the picture when a team has triggered the tax in three of the four previous seasons. This is Year 3 of the tax for Cleveland, so it has not yet been triggered. If the Cavaliers go one dollar over the tax next year — and they will — the repeater will be triggered for both 2017-18 and 2018-19.)

So Gilbert paid $166 million for a roster that made the NBA Finals. We don’t know how much revenue such a good team pulled in, but chances are the Cavaliers lost money this season. Forbes reported that the Cavaliers lost $40 million in 2016-17 despite winning the championship. Those reported 2015-16 losses came with the same total payroll as Cleveland carried this season. Odds are there were significant losses.

This is what makes Gilbert’s refusal to give Griffin a raise so incredible.

by the "so called "experts that you take every opportunity to disregard

i mean- it ends up you were wrong.

wear it. live in it

#timevindicates

 

[tlance]

West vs. East those seasons was better than just a little better, wouldn't you say?

You made a mistake. Just a little one. No biggie.

No I did not make a mistake.

I said the west was better.

 

[tlance]

which of these facts to which he replied would you call apples/oranges....

You said "the West wasn't that much better"

Those are your exact words....and they are false. Taking out the strike year the 8 seed in the West was on average just under 10 games better than the 8 seed in the East. That is a lot better.

And I agree in their last seasons Bosh's cast was not that much better.....probably why Love won 40 and so did Bosh. Only Love did it in a tougher West.

The only apples/oranges is comparing the East and West.

Ok.

And Bosh’s teams won a lot more games than Love’s.

If the win totals were even in the ball park of being close you might have point:

And I am so done debating Kevin Love with Cleveland Homers who somehow turn every damn debate into a Kevin Love talk.

He is a good player.

But not nearly as good as @WiggyRuss @dtgold88 and @lebron23james try to pretend that he is.

The next time he makes the playoffs will be his first on a non-LeBron team. East, West, it has not happened yet and it probably won’t happen this year either despite being surrounded by great players the likes of Tristan Thompson, Colin Sexton, Darius Garland, Jordan Clarkson and Larry Nance.

So just stop trying to make Kevin Love something he is not and we can all move on from this garbage ass topic.

 

[tlance]

Your argument has been destroyed. Just give it a rest. If you can't back up your opinions with stats and facts, then just stop. A team making the playoffs in different conferences is a pretty stupid argument, even for somebody as dumb as shaqdaddy

Dude.

Their stats are very close. Loves are a little better. But just a little.

One is a bad defender who compiled stats playing on horrible Minnesota teams.

The other is a solid defender who played on a league average team in Toronto.

Bosh has a higher career scoring average, better FG% (with slightly higher true shooting percentage) more steals, more blocks, more win shares and a higher VORP.

You act like Love’s numbers are astronomically better. They are not.

 

[dtgold88]

Nope. Not jumping into any of your conversations anymore. You hurt my feelings by telling me I'm wrong for not agreeing w/ you.

Now all jokes aside. I didn't join this conversation to argue. I joined to say I'd rather have Bosh & I told you why. How is that arguing? You have an issue w/ my response (like you always do w/ everyone). Now does the game you're playing right now sound fimiliar? This isn't the first time you've tried pulling this crap.

You keep saying I have an issue and continuing your argument even though I have told you multiple times I have no issue.

Maybe write this on a sticky note and keep with you for reference - I could understand thinking Bosh is better. I disagree but think it's close.

Now you are arguing and I never even really disagreed with you.

 

[dtgold88]

The pressures of annually supplementing LeBron James with a contending roster mounted endlessly. “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not fun. I was miserable,” Griffin says. “Literally the moment we won the championship I knew I was gonna leave. There was no way I was gonna stay for any amount of money.”

As champagne popped in the Cavs’ locker room, Griffin privately wept in an Oakland broom closet. A one-track mind had removed anything but delivering the city’s first championship in 52 years from consciousness. “I didn’t watch the league, and I didn’t love the game anymore,” Griffin says. “I was so fixated on outcome that I just totally lost my joy.” His NBA TV sidestep proved therapeutic. He rediscovered his passion for the game. An appetite to steer a franchise returned, the lingering bad taste from Cleveland crystalizing Griffin’s ideal next destination. “I was kind of chomping at the bit to do it right,” he says.

would also bet part of the reason he left was he also knew Lebron was gone.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

by the "so called "experts that you take every opportunity to disregard

i mean- it ends up you were wrong.

wear it. live in it

#timevindicates

You know this as fact?
I dont. But....
All one can use is common sense?
So, why not just LEAVE vs negotiate, if money is no issue and you know you don’t want to stay.

And, speaking of, ‘your’ experts often do just write nonsense.

Tell us once again how LeBron was mad that Miller was amnestied, please..
Because this you know ( which is impossible).

 

[dtgold88]

Ok.

And Bosh’s teams won a lot more games than Love’s.

If the win totals were even in the ball park of being close you might have point:

And I am so done debating Kevin Love with Cleveland Homers who somehow turn every damn debate into a Kevin Love talk.

He is a good player.

But not nearly as good as @WiggyRuss @dtgold88 and @lebron23james try to pretend that he is.

The next time he makes the playoffs will be his first on a non-LeBron team. East, West, it has not happened yet and it probably won’t happen this year either despite being surrounded by great players the likes of Tristan Thompson, Colin Sexton, Darius Garland, Jordan Clarkson and Larry Nance.

So just stop trying to make Kevin Love something he is not and we can all move on from this garbage ass topic.

tlance to English - "I was wrong and it was silly to imply the East was nearly as good as the West."

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Dude.

Their stats are very close. Loves are a little better. But just a little.

One is a bad defender who compiled stats playing on horrible Minnesota teams.

The other is a solid defender who played on a league average team in Toronto.

Bosh has a higher career scoring average, better FG% (with slightly higher true shooting percentage) more steals, more blocks, more win shares and a higher VORP.

You act like Love’s numbers are astronomically better. They are not.

Bosh made all star team 11 consecutive years.
Thats fact, not opinion.

 

[dtgold88]

So basically your only championship was a joyless slog and the architect left to actually "do it right". Must be nice for you.

Our championship was done right. Just how NO will try and do it with Griff. Clear cap space, accrue assets and hope to land a star. We got the star back (and Kyrie), and they hope they got theirs in Zion along with a ton of picks.

I have to admit there were times that were joyless in the regular season knowing they didn't care.

 

[dtgold88]

thats what it sounds like it was to Griffin.

And from his perspective I get it--- the expectations, mortgaging the future, not being able to grow a roster and team organically- every move a win-now move, managing those personalities.

It had to be exhausting.

Agree.....plus it was Chris Grant who got to do what he will now attempt to do in NO.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

continued on? You made a comment attempting to argue with me when I agreed with you. I never said Bosh was anything but a great player.

Im not trying to change your opinion.
Im entitled to mine.
Hate to ruin your day, but nothing to argue about.

Sure, but opinions could be wrong and/or off base.

Ruin my day because you have a baseless opinion I can refute with facts and stats? You are great for comic relief.

This is exact sequence.

I said your opinion was valid, I just disagree.

Then you counter with my opinion can be wrong or off base, and baseless.


And, want to continue to keep it up.

Why?

Its just your daily pollution of nonsensical posts.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

And I tried to educate you nearly all players will be pulled at least one time in a critical situation in the playoffs.

did you notice Kyrie was also pulled in your example? Guess he isn't very good either.

Love was pulled because he couldn’t defend. Period.

 

[dtgold88]

He knew it, but instead, he negotiated to get low balled.

#sure

Let me see if I have this straight......now you are arguing with Griffin over what he said?

 

[dtgold88]

No I did not make a mistake.

I said the west was better.

you implied just a little better and, yes, you were wrong.

 

[dtgold88]

You know this as fact?
I dont. But....
All one can use is common sense?
So, why not just LEAVE vs negotiate, if money is no issue and you know you don’t want to stay.

And, speaking of, ‘your’ experts often do just write nonsense.

Tell us once again how LeBron was mad that Miller was amnestied, please..
Because this you know ( which is impossible).

Excellent deflection bringing up Mike Miller in a discussion about Griff's departure.

If you did own up to your mistakes what would happen? Must be awful the lengths you go to avoid what is painfully obvious.

 

[dtgold88]

This is exact sequence.

I said your opinion was valid, I just disagree.

Then you counter with my opinion can be wrong or off base, and baseless.


And, want to continue to keep it up.

Why?

Its just your daily pollution of nonsensical posts.

You argued with me when I agreed with you.

Lie, dance, deflect, distort.....this wont change.

Maybe you can bring up Mike Miller.