I'd rather have Tristan or Whiteside Poll

[tlance]

You can keep saying it, but you'll be wrong each time.

From 2006-07 to 2013-14, the 8th seed in the East was only above .500 once (35-31 in strike year) in East. West #8 never .500 or below. worst was was 42-40. Below are the comparisons each year with East team on left from 06-07 to 13-14

40-42 42-40 only year close other than strike, but top 5 in W ranged from 50-67 wins, 43-53 in E
37-45 50-32
39-43 48-34
41-41 50-32
37-45 46-36
35-31 36-30
38-44 45-37
38-44 49-33

I said the West was stronger.

Not enough stronger to justify the fact that Love was only able to win more than 26 games once in his Minnesota tenure. And the year he was hurt they won 31.

Bosh’s supporting cast in toronto was not very good either. Certainly not better than what Love had his last year in Minnesota.

And while the West was stronger, it wasn’t by enough to make up for the 10 wins a year difference.

 

[bksballer89]

Tlance is right.....as always

 

[dtgold88]

I said the West was stronger.

Not enough stronger to justify the fact that Love was only able to win more than 26 games once in his Minnesota tenure. And the year he was hurt they won 31.

Bosh’s supporting cast in toronto was not very good either. Certainly not better than what Love had his last year in Minnesota.

And while the West was stronger, it wasn’t by enough to make up for the 10 wins a year difference.

You said "the West wasn't that much better"

Those are your exact words....and they are false. Taking out the strike year the 8 seed in the West was on average just under 10 games better than the 8 seed in the East. That is a lot better.

And I agree in their last seasons Bosh's cast was not that much better.....probably why Love won 40 and so did Bosh. Only Love did it in a tougher West.

 

[dtgold88]

Tlance is right.....as always

You too want to make the argument the East was almost as strong as the West in those years?

OK...but just means you'll be wrong, as always.

 

[Bart]

He played with very little talent....and was able to coax playoff seasons. Can anyone from your list say the same as a true #1?

He was a regular season legend but couldn't cut when it counted, in the playoffs. Discuss why he couldn't deliver in the playoffs even as a higher seed and why that upsets you.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

You too want to make the argument the East was almost as strong as the West in those years?

OK...but just means you'll be wrong, as always.

How are you so sure?
Maybe the bottom of the East just started tanking sooner and more effectively.

 

[lebron23james]

Love never made the playoffs and had similar supporting casts.

Also, Bosh could defend a lot better.

First, Love played in the West so your playoff comment was stupid right off the back

Love's last year team in Minnesota had a better offensive rating and defensive rating than Boshs playoff teams did and they still didn't make the playoffs...That is the difference, and why the West is considered better.

Second, Love only played for 6 years on Minn

Love had a defensive rating 106 and Bosh has a defensive rating of 105 (per 100 possessions based on points scored on you) However Love has an Offensive rating of 116 (points you score on opponent per 100 possessions) well Bosh is 113

Lastly, Love has a higher win share an all time PER and career PER...So in conclusion you got owned, and badly may i add!

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

First, Love played in the West so your playoff comment was stupid right off the back

Love's team had a better offensive rating and defensive rating and still didn't make the playoffs...That is the difference

Second, Love only played for 6 years on Minn

Love had a defensive rating 106 and Bosh has a defensive rating of 105 (per 100 possessions based on points scored on you) However Love has an Offensive rating of 116 (points you score on opponent per 100 possessions) well Bosh is 113

Lastly, Love has a higher win share an all time PER and career PER...So in conclusion you got owned, and badly may i add!

Stats on shitty losing teams are often just that.
Both assumed role of 3rd options on LeBron’s teams.
Bosh was more important, and better.
Cavs were pulling Love in 4th qtr, if I recall.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Love 4 year with the cavs PER was 20.5

Chris Bosh 4 years with the heat PER was 19.75

The heat were more top heavy so that is prob why Bosh was more important...They didn't have a TT who could really fill in...

But let me say this, neither were great...But was one better than the other...Not really, just like i said before...

Alot of what Bosh did wasn’t seen on stat sheets.
My guess is that LeBron would easily pick Bosh, if given the choice.

 

[tlance]

You too want to make the argument the East was almost as strong as the West in those years?

OK...but just means you'll be wrong, as always.

You also only looked at 8 teams in each conference.

When looking at a team as bad as Minnesota was, you have to look lower too.

In 2008, 4 West teams had 23 wins or less, only 2 East teams
In 2009, 1 East team finished with fewer than 32 wins, 6 West teams had fewer than 30, 5 had 24 or less.
In 2010 the West was clearly better top and bottom. But Bosh’s Raptors won 40 and missed the playoffs by 1 game while Love’s Wolves won 15.
2011 had 4 East teams with 24 wins or less and only 2 West, but Love’s Wolves had an NBA worst 17 wins.
2012 was about the same top to almost bottom aside from the Bobcats who were putrid.
2013 the West was significantly better again

But again, it does not begin to account for such a large win differential.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Stats on shitty losing teams are often just that.
Both assumed role of 3rd options on LeBron’s teams.
Bosh was more important, and better.
Cavs were pulling Love in 4th qtr, if I recall.

Ding, ding, we have a winner.

 

[lebron23james]

You also only looked at 8 teams in each conference.

When looking at a team as bad as Minnesota was, you have to look lower too.

In 2008, 4 West teams had 23 wins or less, only 2 East teams
In 2009, 1 East team finished with fewer than 32 wins, 6 West teams had fewer than 30, 5 had 24 or less.
In 2010 the West was clearly better top and bottom. But Bosh’s Raptors won 40 and missed the playoffs by 1 game while Love’s Wolves won 15.
2011 had 4 East teams with 24 wins or less and only 2 West, but Love’s Wolves had an NBA worst 17 wins.
2012 was about the same top to almost bottom aside from the Bobcats who were putrid.
2013 the West was significantly better again

But again, it does not begin to account for such a large win differential.

The two years Tor made the playoffs they had an offensive rating of 107 and 110 and a defensive rating of 107 and 106

Minn in Loves last year had an offensive rating of 109 and a defensive rating of 106 and didn't make the playoffs

That is the difference between the east and the west for you...

If you want to ignore win share, PER, rebounds and basically every other stat...Then that might help your argument lol

 

[lebron23james]

I bet the LAkers got an A last year

how did that work out?

#paging Mr. DJ

oh yah. holding their dicks when the playoffs started

This year they got a B+

Maybe that means a first round exit. That would be an improvement tho

 

[tlance]

First, Love played in the West so your playoff comment was stupid right off the back

Love's last year team in Minnesota had a better offensive rating and defensive rating than Boshs playoff teams did and they still didn't make the playoffs...That is the difference, and why the West is considered better.

Second, Love only played for 6 years on Minn

Love had a defensive rating 106 and Bosh has a defensive rating of 105 (per 100 possessions based on points scored on you) However Love has an Offensive rating of 116 (points you score on opponent per 100 possessions) well Bosh is 113

Lastly, Love has a higher win share an all time PER and career PER...So in conclusion you got owned, and badly may i add!

You aren’t capable of owning anybody

 

[tlance]

The two years Tor made the playoffs they had an offensive rating of 107 and 110 and a defensive rating of 107 and 106

Minn in Loves last year had an offensive rating of 109 and a defensive rating of 106 and didn't make the playoffs

That is the difference between the east and the west for you...

If you want to ignore win share, PER, rebounds and basically every other stat...Then that might help your argument lol

Defensive rating is a shitty stat.

That one team was comparable to Bosh’s better Toronto teams.

They also had some pretty solid underrated players around Love.

How do you explain all the 26 and under win seasons before the one decent 1?

 

[WiggyRuss]

You said "the West wasn't that much better"

Those are your exact words....and they are false. Taking out the strike year the 8 seed in the West was on average just under 10 games better than the 8 seed in the East. That is a lot better.

And I agree in their last seasons Bosh's cast was not that much better.....probably why Love won 40 and so did Bosh. Only Love did it in a tougher West.

these are facts

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Actually, it's not "all you ever said". You said this.....

You really are a fucking clown.

Bosh was a perennial all-star for a reason.
You not understanding it, is a you problem.

And I clearly agree as I'm making that point in the comment to which you replied.

Now you are arguing with me when I agreed with you. But, yeah, I argue too much

Too funny.

I said it how many posts after you continued on?
Possibly after you said my opinion was baseless?

 

[Bart]

Here I go defending Bosh again even though @TurnUpTheHeat thinks I don't believe he's a stud......

Try and follow. Bosh was the #1 player on the teams he led to the playoffs. Worthy was never the #1 guy on his team after graduating from UNC. Parker was never #1 on a playoff team.

I agree Drexler and Allen can qualify......but your list was, what, 10-15 deep?

I already answer your question and gave Ben Gordon as an example of player who led his team to the playoffs during the same time as Bosh that wasn't as good as the guys I listed. Your stuck on this retarded question that doesn't prove squat.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

please do not be an idiot

Remember Chris Bosh's Game 7 vs. the Spurs?

how about 28 minutes, 0/5 from the field, zero points scored, 5 fouls, 2 turnovers.

Or the following year where he looked awful in 2 straight losses and was a huge impetus for LeBron leaving.

Please do not cherry pick games- anyone can do that- for any player

in Bosh's last Finals he went 11.9 pts, 8.9 rpg, 2.1 assists

Love, in his last finals went for 19 ppg, 11.3 boards, 1.8 assists

All I said, then showed example was that Love was pulled during critical times, and if I recall it was more vs Warriors.
Bosh had bad games, but he wasn’t benched with the Heat thinking they were better without him.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I was more thinking about this -guy---- among others- more than you.


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How funny would it be if James went to Philly because they hire Griffin?

Deep pockets let him go over how few million?

#timevindicates

Below is how it was being presented at the time.
Did Griffin ever say anything to the contrary before now?
Why negotiate at all if you know your leaving?
#timevindicatesthatyouareamoron.

It is quite hard to argue that Cleveland Cavaliers franchise owner Dan Gilbert is cheap. Or, at least, it was hard to argue that before Gilbert parted ways with his general manager David Griffin over what appears to be stalled contract negotiations.

The Cavaliers had a massive $121 million payroll in 2016-17 and face a $45 million luxury tax bill on top of that. LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, and Kevin Love aren’t cheap, and re-signing Tristan Thompson, Iman Shumpert, and J.R. Smith in recent years got quite expensive. Cleveland will begin triggering the oppressive repeater tax in 2017-18, which will increase its inevitable luxury tax bill an additional 44 percent.

(The repeater tax enters the picture when a team has triggered the tax in three of the four previous seasons. This is Year 3 of the tax for Cleveland, so it has not yet been triggered. If the Cavaliers go one dollar over the tax next year — and they will — the repeater will be triggered for both 2017-18 and 2018-19.)

So Gilbert paid $166 million for a roster that made the NBA Finals. We don’t know how much revenue such a good team pulled in, but chances are the Cavaliers lost money this season. Forbes reported that the Cavaliers lost $40 million in 2016-17 despite winning the championship. Those reported 2015-16 losses came with the same total payroll as Cleveland carried this season. Odds are there were significant losses.

This is what makes Gilbert’s refusal to give Griffin a raise so incredible.