I have a question for all of the BPA thinkers.

[Thumper]

Also got to ask Thumper.. .does it matter that Romo was able to pick us apart because Dallas FINALLY invested heavily in their o-line.

Did you realize Romo had his best year EVER last year behind that line, despite throwing 100 less passes. His YPC was up almost 1.5 yards per attempt, he set a career number in completion percentage. And their team sack numbers given up have consistently gone down over the past few years since they got younger and more talented on the line.

I just saying, C'mon, you know in the modern NFL pass rushers are the thing & QBs. Those are the premium positions. I'm not making something up! Yes, a good OL is key. But you don't need an OL of top 5 picks. If you can get a top 5 pass rusher or top 5 QB, you have to take him. For ten years or more you could be loving it!

 

[Thumper]

Dude.. if we do take Mariota at five and go into the season with Compton and Chester, he will be broken by week eight. Taking yet another rookie QB with this line is doing the same old things with new faces.

So this one new OL you want, is going to protect all 3 QBs that we have, but need a good one?

 

[Sharkinva]

I just saying, C'mon, you know in the modern NFL pass rushers are the thing & QBs. Those are the premium positions. I'm not making something up! Yes, a good OL is key. But you don't need an OL of top 5 picks. If you can get a top 5 pass rusher or top 5 QB, you have to take him. For ten years or more you could be loving it!

And how do our last top five QB or Pass rusher turn out while we sent out 4th 5th and 6th round O-lineman or in most cases journeyman FA's on the line?? From your picture I assume you are old enough to remember what a GOOD O-line looks like in Washington. And how good the team was when we had one. Pass Rushers are a dime a dozen. Every year there is the next Dion Jordan out there.

 

[Sharkinva]

So this one new OL you want, is going to protect all 3 QBs that we have, but need a good one?

YOu havent been around much, Im hoping we take Scherff at #5 and Draft another O-lineman in the 2nd. We do in fact need two starters on the right side of the line after all.

 

[Thumper]

And how do our last top five QB or Pass rusher turn out while we sent out 4th 5th and 6th round O-lineman or in most cases journeyman FA's on the line?? From your picture I assume you are old enough to remember what a GOOD O-line looks like in Washington. And how good the team was when we had one. Pass Rushers are a dime a dozen. Every year there is the next Dion Jordan out there.

I don't care if we F'd up on past QB or pass rusher picks. Even recently. It doesn't change the rules or laws. I do what's right for the future.

Like a stock, where's it been doesn't matter to me,bt he past is the past, but where it's going- the future, that's all I care about.

The Scherff guy is a reach at 5. I don't think they will take him. They will use that rare top 5 for a rare top 5 player, like a QB or edge rusher.

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't care if we F'd up on past QB or pass rusher picks. Even recently. It doesn't change the rules or laws. I do what's right for the future.

Like a stock, where's it been doesn't matter to me,bt he past is the past, but where it's going- the future, that's all I care about.

The Scherff guy is a reach at 5. I don't think they will take him. They will use that rare top 5 for a rare top 5 player, like a QB or edge rusher.

Thumper we will agree to disagree on the reach factor.

And as for the rare player argument, its fruitless to get all these star players when your bread and butter is worthless. Would you rather have another Lavar Arrington, or another JOn Jansen?? One was on sports center for his highlights plays. The other simply held down the right side of the line for like 8 years for us.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

If we are NOT going to trade down and make a selection at 5(IMO anyone not Leonard Williams is reach)
I'm starting to lean back toward Scherff. I don't like anyone anymore but at least Alfred Morris can get going again and hopefully that opens up PA and controlling the game thru T.O.P.
These DE's and OLBs that the experts are raving about may end up being good, just not here.
We don't have the pieces around them, and they are extremely undersized.
Ray, Gregory and Beasley are all in the 235-240 range. Beasley somehow is 246 now, he'll struggle to keep that weight on. These guys are going to be injured by week 4 from the speed and physical nature of the game.
Also, I'd like to see what Murphy can do this year. He has good size and the game should have slowed down a bit for him.
...As mentioned by myself and others, OTs like Fisher and Jockel were scouted as franchise guys but they have made minimal impacts. Perhaps Scherff, despite a lower grade...is simply a good fit

 

[deanpet21]

Skinemall, what if Fowler is there at #5? Do we pass on him to take Scherff?

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Skinemall, what if Fowler is there at #5? Do we pass on him to take Scherff?

yes I'll pass, I don't want to demote Trent Murphy. Also I can't resist the urge to compare him to Orakpo.
He's weaker and slower than Orakpo(combine/Texas senior year) and also has weak college numbers.
I also believe this isn't the year to draft a OLB this high that isn't the 2nd coming of Lawrence Taylor.
We could see a new "franchise" qb next year or one of the current back ups become a starter, so I'm ok with the line receiving a nice boost for cheap.

Our offense is loaded, but for whatever reason isn't working. A pass rusher isn't going to save the day, however a G/T could get RGIII or the next QB on track.

 

[skinsdad62]

i am interested what murphy does in year 2 . if he is stronger he could boost his totals

 

[deanpet21]

I like Murphy too, but Fowler could have a Von Miller impact on our team. There will be RT in the 2nd round.

 

[redskinsfan]

I have seen him mocked any where from 5-12 with the average pick recently being 8 or 9. And have you never heard the saying a bird in hand beats two in the bush?? A solid right tackle OR Right guard right now is worth more than a potential other player from the trade down or another pass rusher.

Say he is there at 5 which we expect, we trade down to 12 and the Giants take him at 9, yes I know we could simply draft Peat in this case... unless of course some one like the Rams takes him at 11. Some times you got to live by the Ricky Bobby moto... if you aint first your last. I would rather take the best OT/OG in the draft than fart around and end up with the 4th best guy because we got cute or greedy.

A bird in the hand adage is simply a restatement of my intrinsic vs. objective value point. The bird in the hand has some value, but it also implies there's more value to be had. You only are happy with it because the intrinsic value it has for you outweighs the objective value you can get. It is basically a subjective assessment of where you're wiling to draw the line. I have no doubt Scherff will help our o-line out. But because most think he'll be a guard, and because of the gap between #5 and where he's projected, he's not worth it to me. Of course, if we're truly that desperate come draft time, we take him. Again, subjective determination of his intrinsic worth.

 

[Sharkinva]

A bird in the hand adage is simply a restatement of my intrinsic vs. objective value point. The bird in the hand has some value, but it also implies there's more value to be had. You only are happy with it because the intrinsic value it has for you outweighs the objective value you can get. It is basically a subjective assessment of where you're wiling to draw the line. I have no doubt Scherff will help our o-line out. But because most think he'll be a guard, and because of the gap between #5 and where he's projected, he's not worth it to me. Of course, if we're truly that desperate come draft time, we take him. Again, subjective determination of his intrinsic worth.

I think its realistic value versus possible gains. Barring him having a Pro Day for the ages, chances are Scherff will be there for us at #5. And while a trade down looks good and sounds exciting, you better have a solid plan B in place if you trade down and your guy actually isnt there when your new pick comes up. We can be pretty safe in saying that even if he is ONLY a guard, Scherff is or atleast should be an improvement over what we currently have. We brought in an O-line guru for a reason. Give him the actual talent to work with. You see what Callahan has done with Dallas' YOUNG line.


But to be honest I think all this conjecture will be moot come Tuesday any way. Scherff has his pro day monday, he will either impress, at which point his stock will rise. Raise questions at which point his stock will fall. Or remain in a state of he is what we thought he was... in which case we can keep debating for another month.

My hedged bet... come Wendsday you will see Scherff mocked to us, Jacksonville, the Jets or the Giants.

 

[redskinsfan]

I think its realistic value versus possible gains. Barring him having a Pro Day for the ages, chances are Scherff will be there for us at #5. And while a trade down looks good and sounds exciting, you better have a solid plan B in place if you trade down and your guy actually isnt there when your new pick comes up. We can be pretty safe in saying that even if he is ONLY a guard, Scherff is or atleast should be an improvement over what we currently have. We brought in an O-line guru for a reason. Give him the actual talent to work with. You see what Callahan has done with Dallas' YOUNG line.


But to be honest I think all this conjecture will be moot come Tuesday any way. Scherff has his pro day monday, he will either impress, at which point his stock will rise. Raise questions at which point his stock will fall. Or remain in a state of he is what we thought he was... in which case we can keep debating for another month.

My hedged bet... come Wendsday you will see Scherff mocked to us, Jacksonville, the Jets or the Giants.

I've got no doubt that Scherff will be available to us at #5. If we trade down, he might be there depending on how far we trade down. However, this draft is deep at o-line, and we can get help all the way down to the second round. For instance, if we don't get Scherff, we may be able to get La'el Collins, a college tackle who's also projected as an NFL guard.

This draft is also deeper at OLB. If we move down the draft, there are plenty of prospects we can take to complement Kerrigan at OLB. In my ideal draft plan, we trade down, get another first or second rounder, and use our first three picks on an at least an OT and OG. Depending on where we end up, Landon Collins may be there. If so, he may be worth taking (though if Scherff is available, we ought to take Scherff). Or we can use the pick on an OLB.

 

[Sharkinva]

I've got no doubt that Scherff will be available to us at #5. If we trade down, he might be there depending on how far we trade down. However, this draft is deep at o-line, and we can get help all the way down to the second round. For instance, if we don't get Scherff, we may be able to get La'el Collins, a college tackle who's also projected as an NFL guard.

This draft is also deeper at OLB. If we move down the draft, there are plenty of prospects we can take to complement Kerrigan at OLB. In my ideal draft plan, we trade down, get another first or second rounder, and use our first three picks on an at least an OT and OG. Depending on where we end up, Landon Collins may be there. If so, he may be worth taking (though if Scherff is available, we ought to take Scherff). Or we can use the pick on an OLB.

IM going to let you in on a little tid bit. I have a very hard time mocking anything BUT O-line to the Jags actually. Because they gave up more sacks than ANYONE in the league last year. I also find it a hard sell and more of a sexy move to give them a pass rusher when in fact the Jags one saving grace last year was that they tied for 5th in sacks. I think the only reason Scherff isnt being mocked to the Jags already is because he pulled a hammy at the combine and couldnt do the cone drills and agility tests. If he rocks those Monday... He will be moving into the top five on a few mocks... and remember you heard it from Papa Shark first.

 

[Stymietee]

I like Murphy too, but Fowler could have a Von Miller impact on our team. There will be RT in the 2nd round.

Isn't it possible that we'll get improved play from Murphy if as many have indicated, because the team hasmade necessary moves along the DL?

 

[redskinsfan]

IM going to let you in on a little tid bit. I have a very hard time mocking anything BUT O-line to the Jags actually. Because they gave up more sacks than ANYONE in the league last year. I also find it a hard sell and more of a sexy move to give them a pass rusher when in fact the Jags one saving grace last year was that they tied for 5th in sacks. I think the only reason Scherff isnt being mocked to the Jags already is because he pulled a hammy at the combine and couldnt do the cone drills and agility tests. If he rocks those Monday... He will be moving into the top five on a few mocks... and remember you heard it from Papa Shark first.

Hmmmm . . . I see you're a Marine, no? Think Scherff could handle boot camp training? If so, he's okay with me. And no, I'm not one. Just a fan, that's all.

 

[redskinsfan]

And, BTW, no more hating on "Bob." Stephen A. Smith might brand you a racist.

 

[Sharkinva]

Hmmmm . . . I see you're a Marine, no? Think Scherff could handle boot camp training? If so, he's okay with me. And no, I'm not one. Just a fan, that's all.

To be honest Scherff reminds me of Jon Jansen.. so yea I think he would survive boot camp. And likely Recon school as well. Kid also has a nasty streak which i kinda like. I know its high praise, but I think much like Jansen, he would have been one of the guys I saw out behind the gear locker in training camp with Riggins. Old school mauler. And I dare say the one real worry i have is he gets booted from a game for taking a D-linemans head off for taking a cheap shot at his QB...

 

[Stymietee]

Big picture guys, so far we've seen on paper, upgrades on the DL and at safety. We still could use help at FS, but honestly, there's been a lot of attention paid to that side of the ball.
Given the changes mentioned above, what's the next logical step? QB? Nope, otherwise why resign CM? WR? Nope, most would say that prior to the current moves, this unit was the strength of the team. RB? Nope, despite the loss of Roy Helu, finding his replacement, and the successor to Ammo, can be done later in this draft. Hell that would be especially true if as a couple of posters have suggested.........RB's are a dime a dozen. TE? Nope, not even a thought so far on any thread that I've seen.

So, what's left? Yep, OL! Some have suggested that the team has already invested in this unit last year, but honestly, if they were unable to crack into the starting lineup over guys like Chester or Polumbus, it's going to take a considerable amount of time to develop them if it is at all possible. IMHO, right now this team needs to significantly upgrade its' OL. That said, I believe that whatever move this team makes, the primary focus will be OL, including if they must the pick at #5.