Hurts getting paid

[Sparhawk]

 

[shopson67]

No.

No buts. I said but, in regards to Lamar...meaning to turn the conversation to Lamar...

Hurts future ability > Lamar. Therefore, Lamar should not get the same contract. End of story.

Give Lamar any wide receiver remotely approaching Brown and Smith and let me know how the passing game changes. Instead the Ravens pay OBJ and Agholor, who while being upgrades from last years' Ravens WR corps, are still shaky pieces in the grand scheme.

 

[shopson67]

Mahomes is still THE KING
bet he's not pouting about lesser QB's making more money.

He better not. He signed a 10 year contract in a league where the next guy up routinely becomes the top paid guy. His contract is going to look Brady-ish by the time it's done.

 

[Cincyfan78]

What? How can you tell the future? These guys play a similar game in terms of using their legs, getting outside of the pocket and rushing the football. One team believes in their guy and another team wants to hedge.

Lamar has thrown for 3K yards once. He then went down to 2K yards after his MVP season...his other two seasons were cut short, so he may have made it again past 3K yards, or not depending on how you extrapolate the data points...but, larger crux of the issue is - he clearly was not improving as a passer.

Hurts went from just over 3K to just under 4K yards passing...way more than Lamar has. Both use their legs, but they are not he same passer in the pocket. So, in his first 2 years of starting, he's already shown more ability to improve in his passing than Lamar has in 5 full seasons.

If Lamar injures his knee and can no longer run, and Hurts injures a knee and can no longer run - who do you feel more comfortable with sticking in the pocket to make throws and win games.....for me, it's Hurts and it's not especially close.

 

[shopson67]

Lamar has thrown for 3K yards once. He then went down to 2K yards after his MVP season...his other two seasons were cut short, so he may have made it again past 3K yards, or not depending on how you extrapolate the data points...but, larger crux of the issue is - he clearly was not improving as a passer.

Hurts went from just over 3K to just under 4K yards passing...way more than Lamar has. Both use their legs, but they are not he same passer in the pocket. So, in his first 2 years of starting, he's already shown more ability to improve in his passing than Lamar has in 5 full seasons.

If Lamar injures his knee and can no longer run, and Hurts injures a knee and can no longer run - who do you feel more comfortable with sticking in the pocket to make throws and win games.....for me, it's Hurts and it's not especially close.

You're right, Hurts' 175.6 career passing ypg is light years ahead of Lamar's 174.4 (with MUCH lesser weapons).

 

[Cincyfan78]

Give Lamar any wide receiver remotely approaching Brown and Smith and let me know how the passing game changes. Instead the Ravens pay OBJ and Agholor, who while being upgrades from last years' Ravens WR corps, are still shaky pieces in the grand scheme.

Good QB's find a way...bad QB's make excuses.

Burrow had a duo of Trenton Irwin and Trent Taylor this past year for stretches of games...still got the job done. Sure, he's better with Chase and Higgins out there, but when they've missed games, Burrow gets the next man up and continues to make plays.

Fact is - Lamar is a runner who happens to play QB...There are QB's out there with crap WR's who still find ways to throw for 3-4K yards every year....but Lamar, with all his supposed talent, can't consistently break 3K yards? Hmmm.....

 

[shopson67]

If Lamar injures his knee and can no longer run, and Hurts injures a knee and can no longer run - who do you feel more comfortable with sticking in the pocket to make throws and win games.....for me, it's Hurts and it's not especially close.

Neither. At that point, both teams move on.

 

[Battlelyon]

Give Lamar any wide receiver remotely approaching Brown and Smith and let me know how the passing game changes. Instead the Ravens pay OBJ and Agholor, who while being upgrades from last years' Ravens WR corps, are still shaky pieces in the grand scheme.

The Ravens are primarily a running team, he fits well in that system. So him asking for the most guaranteed money at the quarterback position which doesn't require an elite passer is frustrating.

 

[Cincyfan78]

You're right, Hurts' 175.6 career passing ypg is light years ahead of Lamar's 174.4 (with MUCH lesser weapons).

Lamar passing by years:

1,201
3,127 (MVP
2, 757
2,882
2.242

3,144 in first year as starter
3.701 last year

Hmmmmmm

 

[shopson67]

The Ravens are primarily a running team, he fits well in that system. So him asking for the most guaranteed money at the quarterback position which doesn't require an elite passer is frustrating.

Then they should move on, trade him to the Colts/Falcons/Raiders/Titans, whomever doesn't get one of the 4 QBs in this year's draft. If the Colts get leap-frogged, I could see a Lamar trade happening during the draft (if they have talks before the draft of course).

Hell, trade him to the Rams.

 

[Battlelyon]

Hell, trade him to the Rams.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Lamar has thrown for 3K yards once. He then went down to 2K yards after his MVP season...his other two seasons were cut short, so he may have made it again past 3K yards, or not depending on how you extrapolate the data points...but, larger crux of the issue is - he clearly was not improving as a passer.

Hurts went from just over 3K to just under 4K yards passing...way more than Lamar has. Both use their legs, but they are not he same passer in the pocket. So, in his first 2 years of starting, he's already shown more ability to improve in his passing than Lamar has in 5 full seasons.

If Lamar injures his knee and can no longer run, and Hurts injures a knee and can no longer run - who do you feel more comfortable with sticking in the pocket to make throws and win games.....for me, it's Hurts and it's not especially close.

Now you’re talking about other factors. I was talking about you looking at two guys with similar game and similar risk and saying one guy is going to be hurt and the other isn’t. Hurts has started two years and in each campaign missed games due to injury.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Lamar has thrown for 3K yards once. He then went down to 2K yards after his MVP season...his other two seasons were cut short, so he may have made it again past 3K yards, or not depending on how you extrapolate the data points...but, larger crux of the issue is - he clearly was not improving as a passer.

Hurts went from just over 3K to just under 4K yards passing...way more than Lamar has. Both use their legs, but they are not he same passer in the pocket. So, in his first 2 years of starting, he's already shown more ability to improve in his passing than Lamar has in 5 full seasons.

If Lamar injures his knee and can no longer run, and Hurts injures a knee and can no longer run - who do you feel more comfortable with sticking in the pocket to make throws and win games.....for me, it's Hurts and it's not especially close.

My edit:

I reread your original post and you said “future ability”. I read that as availability assuming you were talking about injury.

That’s my bad. I will go to the penalty box and feel shame. My apologies.

 

[PDay8810]

How can you tell the future?

LOL....I asked the same of you when Dallas lost opening week.
Their season was over at that time.

Pot meet kettle

 

[PDay8810]

Pitch a tent over this circus act.

 

[shopson67]

Lamar passing by years:

1,201
3,127 (MVP
2, 757
2,882
2.242

3,144 in first year as starter
3.701 last year

Hmmmmmm

2018 top 3 WRs by yardage: John Brown, Willie Snead, Michael Crabtree
2019: Marquise Brown, Willie Snead, Seth Roberts
2020: Marquise Brown, Willie Snead, MIles Boykin
2021: Marquise Brown, Rashod Bateman, Sammy Watkins
2022: Demarcus Robinson, Devin Duvernay, Rashod Bateman

Hmmmm

 

[Mebert]

2018 top 3 WRs by yardage: John Brown, Willie Snead, Michael Crabtree
2019: Marquise Brown, Willie Snead, Seth Roberts
2020: Marquise Brown, Willie Snead, MIles Boykin
2021: Marquise Brown, Rashod Bateman, Sammy Watkins
2022: Demarcus Robinson, Devin Duvernay, Rashod Bateman

Hmmmm

I assume by excluding Mark Andrews you don't want Goedert/Ertz in the Eagles comparison.

Hurts:
2020: Greg Ward, Travis Fulgham, Jalen Reagor
2021: Devonte Smith, Quez Watkins, Jalen Reagor
2022: Devonte Smith, AJ Brown, Quez Watkins

Until this last year Hurts did not have better, and you could make a case he had worse receivers. The main difference is Hurts has improved every year consistently and Jackson has been all over the place.

 

[Cincyfan78]

2018 top 3 WRs by yardage: John Brown, Willie Snead, Michael Crabtree
2019: Marquise Brown, Willie Snead, Seth Roberts
2020: Marquise Brown, Willie Snead, MIles Boykin
2021: Marquise Brown, Rashod Bateman, Sammy Watkins
2022: Demarcus Robinson, Devin Duvernay, Rashod Bateman

Hmmmm

And yet the list of other QB's who are not great, and have nothing at WR still throw for more yards.

Davis freaking Mills threw for more yards. Davis. Mills. He's got nothing at WR.

Tannehill in 12 games threw for more, and they lost their best WR to the Eagles...their #2 guy was a TE

The saints #2 and #3 receivers were TE and a RB...and Dalton still threw for more yards....Mediocre Andy Dalton. But Lamar should get Hurts money?

If teams really thought Lamar was a top 5-8 QB, and he just needed WR's - they would gladly beat down the door, give the Ravens two 1st round picks, and put good WR's around him and enjoy the fruits of that labor for the next 5-6-7 years. It's not happening and you simply don't want to acknowledge the absolute truth about why. He's simply not a good long-term investment as a QB.

 

[shopson67]

I assume by excluding Mark Andrews you don't want Goedert/Ertz in the Eagles comparison.

Hurts:
2020: Greg Ward, Travis Fulgham, Jalen Reagor
2021: Devonte Smith, Quez Watkins, Jalen Reagor
2022: Devonte Smith, AJ Brown, Quez Watkins

Until this last year Hurts did not have better, and you could make a case he had worse receivers. The main difference is Hurts has improved every year consistently and Jackson has been all over the place.

Both teams have elite TE receivers, felt no need to nitpick there.

Jackson's production is a result of the team around him. The Eagles have done a far better job of building a complete team. Whether or not Hurts builds on 2022 or plateaus remains to be seen.

 

[shopson67]

And yet the list of other QB's who are not great, and have nothing at WR still throw for more yards.

Davis freaking Mills threw for more yards. Davis. Mills. He's got nothing at WR.

Tannehill in 12 games threw for more, and they lost their best WR to the Eagles...their #2 guy was a TE

The saints #2 and #2 receivers were TE and a RB...and Dalton still threw for more yards....Mediocre Andy Dalton. But Lamar should get Hurts money?

If teams really thought Lamar was a top 5-8 QB, and he just needed WR's - they would gladly beat down the door, give the Ravens two 1st round picks, and put good WR's around him and enjoy the fruits of that labor for the next 5-6-7 years. It's not happening and you simply don't want to acknowledge the absolute truth about why. He's simply not a good long-term investment as a QB.

Like I said, then move on if you don't believe in him. Why hold the guy hostage? Either trade him for what you can get or pay him. I still think we see him traded during or after the draft.