Hobs is setting the tone for the upcoming draft

[Kingspoint]

This is complete bullshit..... It's really easy to say this after the guys have had good NFL careers. The truth is that there were worries about Steven Jackson's knee and those concerns kept him from working out at the combine. Ironic that it was Perry that ended up being hurt, given that Jackson was seen as the injury risk. There were also concerns that Wilfork was lazy and took plays off - Hardly a can't miss prospect.

That's simply not true. You, personally, may not have felt that way, but over 50% of the fans at the site I was at knew it was a no-brainer to take Jackson or Wilfork that day. Any concerns about Jackson's health came only from uninformed people.

There's no way to color-coat the fact that Marvin Lewis was then and still is a poor judge of talent. Once he was removed from the equation when it came to drafting players, the drafts got better.

 

[Kingspoint]

Most of the butt-hurt about the Perry pick came from it being a stupid-ass decision compounded by Marvin's foolish and incompetent evaluation that Perry was better than Jackson, when to anyone who had seen both players and the competition that they went up against, that Jackson was in a whole other atmosphere of productivity and talent.

 

[Kingspoint]

Also, with SJ, there was a lot of knocks against his competition at the time. Chris Perry played against better defenses. Jackson was coming off the knee issue and did not participate in the combine.

It's very easy to sit here in hindsight and trash the pick, but at the time, many publications had the two nearly neck and neck as for as talent, both offering a bit different style, entering the draft. The Bengals, being virtually assured of one back or the other, did the smart thing and traded down twice to get more picks.

Also, Perry was considered by the Bengals to be better pass-catching RB, and with the wide open offense Brat was running at the time, Perry was probably a better fit in the scheme they were running. You also have to remember they already had a similar runner to Jackson in Rudi Johnson on the roster, and were probably looking for a bit of diversity for the offense.

No publication of any merit had Perry and Jackson rated equally in any facet. None of this is hindsight. It was lambasted within seconds as a moronic pick/move...so much so that Marvin was forced to try to defend it.

 

[Kingspoint]

Just some things to throw into the Steven Jackson talk...

Brat was an Oregon State alum like Jackson. In college Jackson was recruited and coached by Dennis Erickson . Brat was an OC under Erickson in college and the NFL for 7 seasons. Kind of strange with those connections that no one clued him in that Jackson was going to be one of the best RBs of his generation.

I still think Perry could have been a good player if he stayed healthy. He flashed in 05. That offense looked like it was going to take over the NFL. He was so good as a receiver out of the backfield that year

Jackson was not recruited by Erickson. Brat was a bad OC (which is why he's gone downhill since he left the Bengals, a job he held far too long). Being an OSU alum didn't give Brat any help in evaluating RB talent (as it's obvious he couldn't see what most of the country could regarding Jackson and Perry). Brat's association with Erickson was never during any OSU time, nor any period where Steven Jackson's name ever would have come up. Brat didn't know how to use a pass-catching RB, so how could he recognize one? Erickson, at most, coached Jackson for only one or two seasons.

Brat didn't have an influence on draft decisions. Perry was 100% Marvin's choice. He said so himself.

 

[cincygrad]

That's simply not true. You, personally, may not have felt that way, but over 50% of the fans at the site I was at knew it was a no-brainer to take Jackson or Wilfork that day. Any concerns about Jackson's health came only from uninformed people.

There's no way to color-coat the fact that Marvin Lewis was then and still is a poor judge of talent. Once he was removed from the equation when it came to drafting players, the drafts got better.

He didn't even run in the combine.... He was injured. How is this an uniformed opinion.

 

[cincygrad]

And since when does a 'can't miss' defensive tackle fall all the way into the 20s? It doesn't happen. It's a premium position and it always has been. Wilfork was criticized as lazy in college. Maybe you and all of the draft experts you hang out with had better info than us common folk.

 

[Kingspoint]

Just because some of you Cincy fans were gullible enough at the time to buy into Marvin's excuses, don't confuse your understanding of what was going on with that of the rest of the NFL fandom or with Cincy fans who don't wear orange-colored glasses or live in the Cincy area. Marvin stating that Perry was their #1 RB on the board only made him look like more of an idiot at the time to most people who don't wear orange-colored glasses.

 

[Kingspoint]

He didn't even run in the combine.... He was injured. How is this an uniformed opinion.

Because not running at the combine had no relation to future performance. His injury wasn't serious, which any half-ass medical team could diagnose and he didn't have injuries during his career. He was a workout warrior with a grade-A on the character scale, something the Bengals couldn't recognize if it slapped them in the face.

 

[cincygrad]

Just stop..... You are starting to contradict yourself.

You said before that no coach worth a damn should touch a college running back with over 330 carries the year before. In your extensive research on Steven Jackson, did you ever bother to look up his stats. He carried it 350 times!!! And he didn't even average 4.5 yards per carry. Hardly a transcendent talent.

 

[cincygrad]

Just because some of you Cincy fans were gullible enough at the time to buy into Marvin's excuses, don't confuse your understanding of what was going on with that of the rest of the NFL fandom or with Cincy fans who don't wear orange-colored glasses or live in the Cincy area. Marvin stating that Perry was their #1 RB on the board only made him look like more of an idiot at the time to most people who don't wear orange-colored glasses.

What makes you think I lived anywhere near Cincinnati in 2004? And I'm sure Bengal fans all have ESPN.

 

[cincygrad]

Any RB who has 330+ touches in a season should be nowhere in the conversation of wasting a draft pick on him. That should have been a huge red flag and was a major error by everyone involved for failing to be adamant about it. They learned their lesson (what I like about the Bengals of the last 12 years as they keep evolving positively). I wanted them to draft both Gio and Hill because of their low usages in College, and we'll get extra quality years from them as a result.

The needing Secondary help and O'Neal's ProBowl appearance do not come close to justifying two bad decisions as they moved down. O'Neal was a temporary fix...a bandaid, while it was obvious to anyone who watched Jackson and Wilfork that they were both long-term solutions.

Steven Jackson

Oops!

 

[Kingspoint]

And since when does a 'can't miss' defensive tackle fall all the way into the 20s? It doesn't happen. It's a premium position and it always has been. Wilfork was criticized as lazy in college. Maybe you and all of the draft experts you hang out with had better info than us common folk.

He was #21...the middle of the round. Don't act like it was the end of the round. The 2004 draft was loaded. 12 Pro-Bowlers were taken before Wilfork. Also the mistake that was Gallery, Lee Evans was taken, and other solid starters. It's why Jackson fell so far. In most drafts, those two would have been top-15. But, Chris Perry was 2nd Round prospect, at best. And again, any moron knows you don't draft a guy who had 330 touches in a single year in College. But, that would require common sense, something Marvin has always lacked, as had the Bengals' franchise, until theh drafted Palmer and slowly began to change their ways, baby step by baby step to where they are right now a model franchise regarding drafting and player continuity.

 

[Kingspoint]

Steven Jackson

Oops!

S-Jax, as mentioned, was a workout warrior, who didn't have injury histories in College. If he had been investigated, they would have known that he was 25 years ahead of his time when it comes to maintaining health. But, what would the alcoholic Bratkowski or flubby, tubby Marvin know about that? Jackson was the rare athlete who could handle the extra workload. The Bengals were such cheapasses that they weren't willing to spend the money on scouts to find out this information.

The Bengals were still in the stone-age when it came to gathering accurate information about potential draft players. They were extremely incompetent.

ESPN? Who has ever used ESPN to get information on draft prospects?

 

[Cincyfan78]

S-Jax, as mentioned, was a workout warrior, who didn't have injury histories in College. If he had been investigated, they would have known that he was 25 years ahead of his time when it comes to maintaining health. But, what would the alcoholic Bratkowski or flubby, tubby Marvin know about that? Jackson was the rare athlete who could handle the extra workload. The Bengals were such cheapasses that they weren't willing to spend the money on scouts to find out this information.

The Bengals were still in the stone-age when it came to gathering accurate information about potential draft players. They were extremely incompetent.

ESPN? Who has ever used ESPN to get information on draft prospects?

He also didn't face the same defensive competition as Perry, or had the ability to catch as well as Perry out of the backfield. A big plus at the time considering they already had a power-back like Jackson in Rudi Johnson.

ESPN reports pretty much the same stuff as every other outlet. They have their talking heads, just as does Fox, and Football outsiders, and etc...etc...etc....

All you can do is look at the numbers and look at the tape and see who fits best in your system. For the Bengals, again, who had a power guy in Johnson, they were looking to add another dimension in the passing game with Perry.

Frankly, I didn't want either guy there. I didn't want them taking a RB, but it is what it is. Hard to say what would have happened had he stayed healthy. Much like Ki-Jana who gets a bad rap, but he tore his knee up in a time where torn ACL's were pretty much the end of your career.

 

[cincygrad]

He was #21...the middle of the round. Don't act like it was the end of the round. The 2004 draft was loaded. 12 Pro-Bowlers were taken before Wilfork. Also the mistake that was Gallery, Lee Evans was taken, and other solid starters. It's why Jackson fell so far. In most drafts, those two would have been top-15. But, Chris Perry was 2nd Round prospect, at best. And again, any moron knows you don't draft a guy who had 330 touches in a single year in College. But, that would require common sense, something Marvin has always lacked, as had the Bengals' franchise, until theh drafted Palmer and slowly began to change their ways, baby step by baby step to where they are right now a model franchise regarding drafting and player continuity.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

 

[Cincyfan78]

He was #21...the middle of the round. Don't act like it was the end of the round. The 2004 draft was loaded. 12 Pro-Bowlers were taken before Wilfork. Also the mistake that was Gallery, Lee Evans was taken, and other solid starters. It's why Jackson fell so far. In most drafts, those two would have been top-15. But, Chris Perry was 2nd Round prospect, at best. And again, any moron knows you don't draft a guy who had 330 touches in a single year in College. But, that would require common sense, something Marvin has always lacked, as had the Bengals' franchise, until theh drafted Palmer and slowly began to change their ways, baby step by baby step to where they are right now a model franchise regarding drafting and player continuity.

Yeah, that just blew your entire argument.

Bad job by you.

 

[cincygrad]

 

[cincygrad]

S-Jax, as mentioned, was a workout warrior, who didn't have injury histories in College. If he had been investigated, they would have known that he was 25 years ahead of his time when it comes to maintaining health. But, what would the alcoholic Bratkowski or flubby, tubby Marvin know about that? Jackson was the rare athlete who could handle the extra workload. The Bengals were such cheapasses that they weren't willing to spend the money on scouts to find out this information.

The Bengals were still in the stone-age when it came to gathering accurate information about potential draft players. They were extremely incompetent.

ESPN? Who has ever used ESPN to get information on draft prospects?

Really? The guy was 25 years before his time?

 

[DanBengalfan]

everyone who posts on here enough times is sure to contradict himself.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Really? The guy was 25 years before his time?

You don't think he'll be playing until 2029? Come on! He's obviously found ways to stay healthy that the scientific, and nutritional, communities have yet to even think of!