Historically...Michigan is overrated honestly

[umichgradfan]

You also don't hear Michigan State get talked about as one of the greatest of all-time like you do with michigan.

That's right because "historically" Michigan State hasn't been a dominant team (although they have been very good at times).

 

[umichgradfan]

You also don't hear Michigan State get talked about as one of the greatest of all-time like you do with michigan.

You are right. The OP said "historically." Look, I'm not all all happy about Michigan football's recent performance, but to say that historically the Wolverines are overrated is simply not the case. Their record speaks for itself.

 

[7Samurai13]

That's right because "historically" Michigan State hasn't been a dominant team (although they have been very good at times).

So what does Michigan State have to do with this discussion? Am I not allowed to discuss this topic because I'm a Michigan State fan? Did I mention Michigan State at all? I was explaining that the OP was not referencing the last 18 years but the last 66 years which is roughly half the life span of your program.

Or should we start talking about how Minnesota hasn't won a national title in 60+ years because that's as relevant to this topic as Michigan State is?

 

[4down20]

You are right. The OP said "historically." Look, I'm not all all happy about Michigan football's recent performance, but to say that historically the Wolverines are overrated is simply not the case. Their record speaks for itself.

Fine. Michigan is a historical footnote.

Happy now?

 

[Across The Field]

You are right. The OP said "historically." Look, I'm not all all happy about Michigan football's recent performance, but to say that historically the Wolverines are overrated is simply not the case. Their record speaks for itself.

When the overwhelming majority of your titles come from the leather helmet days, you don't deserve to be in the discussion of great programs.

 

[umichgradfan]

So what does Michigan State have to do with this discussion? Am I not allowed to discuss this topic because I'm a Michigan State fan? Did I mention Michigan State at all? I was explaining that the OP was not referencing the last 18 years but the last 66 years which is roughly half the life span of your program.

Or should we start talking about how Minnesota hasn't won a national title in 60+ years because that's as relevant to this topic as Michigan State is?

Sorry, 7Samarai13, you are certainly allowed to discuss the topic. The rivalry between our teams got in my way. But, you changed the criteria of the OP. Historically, Michigan is not overrated as I explained. Now, if the OP was about the last 60 years, I would have had something quite different to say.

 

[umichgradfan]

When the overwhelming majority of your titles come from the leather helmet days, you don't deserve to be in the discussion of great programs.

You are right about the majority of Michigan's titles, but if you say "historically," you have to include all of history--you can't leave out half of to suit yourself. Well, you can, but that wouldn't be "historical." Michigan does deserve to be in the discussion of historically great programs.

 

[umichgradfan]

Fine. Michigan is a historical footnote.

Happy now?

It's much more than a footnote, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[7Samurai13]

Sorry, 7Samarai13, you are certainly allowed to discuss the topic. The rivalry between our teams got in my way. But, you changed the criteria of the OP. Historically, Michigan is not overrated as I explained. Now, if the OP was about the last 60 years, I would have had something quite different to say.

I changed nothing. He actually referenced the 66 years with one title at the end of the post. I was just restating his opinion on the matter that he was looking over the entire timeline not just an 18 year span. Growing up in Michigan and listening to Michigan fans you would think that Michigan was like Alabama winning a title or two every decade. Which just is not the case. Michigan was a premier program at the turn of the century but after WWII when schools started to invest more and more money allowing them to compete more with Michigan and what they were spending, Michigan has been a very good team but hardly a top 2-3 program.

 

[umichgradfan]

I changed nothing. He actually referenced the 66 years with one title at the end of the post. I was just restating his opinion on the matter that he was looking over the entire timeline not just an 18 year span. Growing up in Michigan and listening to Michigan fans you would think that Michigan was like Alabama winning a title or two every decade. Which just is not the case. Michigan was a premier program at the turn of the century but after WWII when schools started to invest more and more money allowing them to compete more with Michigan and what they were spending Michigan has been a very good team but hardly a top 2-3 program.

You are. But, I disagree with the OP's characterization of CFB history as the last 66 years. Historically, Michigan has the most all-time wins and will continue to hold that record for the foreseeable future despite what other teams have dominated in the last 66 years.

 

[ericd7633]

Sorry, 7Samarai13, you are certainly allowed to discuss the topic. The rivalry between our teams got in my way. But, you changed the criteria of the OP. Historically, Michigan is not overrated as I explained. Now, if the OP was about the last 60 years, I would have had something quite different to say.

Historically speaking Michigan is thought of as a top 8ish program(although I'm sure you think they're better). However, the evidence of the last 65 years would suggest otherwise. I think 65 years is enough evidence to say what a program is or is not. 65 years is a long time. I guess it all depends on what you think of them now as a program. In the last decade they're probably somewhere in the 20's as far as programs go. In the last 20 years they're probably in the 10-15 range. The 70's and 80's they were probably in the 5-10 range.

 

[umichgradfan]

Historically speaking Michigan is thought of as a top 8ish program(although I'm sure you think they're better). However, the evidence of the last 65 years would suggest otherwise. I think 65 years is enough evidence to say what a program is or is not. 65 years is a long time. I guess it all depends on what you think of them now as a program. In the last decade they're probably somewhere in the 20's as far as programs go. In the last 20 years they're probably in the 10-15 range. The 70's and 80's they were probably in the 5-10 range.

I am not arguing with the points you have made here. I agree. I am arguing about the term "historically," which includes all of history, IMO.

 

[umichgradfan]

I changed nothing. He actually referenced the 66 years with one title at the end of the post. I was just restating his opinion on the matter that he was looking over the entire timeline not just an 18 year span. Growing up in Michigan and listening to Michigan fans you would think that Michigan was like Alabama winning a title or two every decade. Which just is not the case. Michigan was a premier program at the turn of the century but after WWII when schools started to invest more and more money allowing them to compete more with Michigan and what they were spending, Michigan has been a very good team but hardly a top 2-3 program.

. . . right.

 

[7Samurai13]

You are. But, I disagree with the OP's characterization of CFB history as the last 66 years. Historically, Michigan has the most all-time wins and will continue to hold that record for the foreseeable future despite what other teams have dominated in the last 66 years.

Michigan was racking up wins against high schools and local club teams before many schools even had a team. Just because one team has a 20-30 year head start to compile wins doesn't mean they are the best team ever.

 

[umichgradfan]

Michigan was racking up wins against high schools and local club teams before many schools even had a team. Just because one team has a 20-30 year head start to compile wins doesn't mean they are the best team ever.

So far as the entire history of CFB is concerned, they are. Now, if you want to say they are not the best team of the past 60 (or 66) years, I can agree. The record speaks for itself.

 

[ericd7633]

I am not arguing with the points you have made here. I agree. I am arguing about the term "historically," which includes all of history, IMO.

Do you think Michigan is the best program ever?

 

[umichgradfan]

Do you think Michigan is the best program ever?

As I noted above, as far as the entire history of CFB is concerned, they are. They have the most all-time wins. Now, if you want to say they are not the best team of the past 60 (or 66) years, I can agree. I would even agree that they have been somewhat overrated at times during the last 66 years and have not lived up to expectations as many other teams have been. But, until another team passes Michigan in all-time wins, the Wolverines are historically the best team.

 

[outofyourmind]

If you divide CFB history in half, Michigan certainly hasn't had the accomplishments of others in the second half of CFB History.

If you take the first half of CFB History they come in behind Yale, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Notre Dame in wins and winning percentage. So there is evidence they didn't even make the top 5 in the first half of CFB history either.

Just sayin'

 

[ericd7633]

As I noted above, as far as the entire history of CFB is concerned, they are. They have the most all-time wins. Now, if you want to say they are not the best team of the past 60 (or 66) years, I can agree. I would even agree that they have been somewhat overrated at times during the last 66 years and have not lived up to expectations as many other teams have been. But, until another team passes Michigan in all-time wins, the Wolverines are historically the best team.

This is laughable. Michigan also had a decade head start on other programs. And they don't even have the best winning % of all time.

 

[7Samurai13]

As I noted above, as far as the entire history of CFB is concerned, they are. They have the most all-time wins. Now, if you want to say they are not the best team of the past 60 (or 66) years, I can agree. I would even agree that they have been somewhat overrated at times during the last 66 years and have not lived up to expectations as many other teams have been. But, until another team passes Michigan in all-time wins, the Wolverines are historically the best team.

I bet you believe that Cy Young was the greatest pitcher ever.