Hate To Admit It

[ANGELAKERAMS]

But Kobe is the problem.

3-14 last night and still insists on taking the last shot.

His shooting has been horrible this season. How many 6-23/7-23 shooting games have we seen from him this season already? Too many

And he still insists on taking way more shots than every other teammate.

Hate to admit it cause I've enjoyed watching him all these years, but his ego is writing checks his body can't cash. And he refuses to admit he isn't the same player anymore.

He's shooting 37.7% this season. It's 3rd lowest on the team. He's shot 74 more times than the next closest teammate (Boozer- who is shooting over 50% ). His 3 pt shooting is 26.8%- lowest on the team.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think there are a couple of problems re: Kobe. For one, you have to remember that coming into this season he had literally played almost zero basketball for a year and a half. It takes awhile to get his legs and touch back.

His legs are the bigger of the 2 problems. When he has those back, his touch will improve. That's why there have been several games where he is at 50% or better early in the game, but then falls off dramatically in the 2nd half. Also, we've all seen those games in the past where he starts off shooting poorly, but then "shoots himself out of the slump" and goes on tear in the 2nd half. He doesn't have the legs to do that right now.

The other problem is that he is having to do too much and I think that wears him down as well. He's not only having to try to get his game/shot back, but help out at point guard as well.

I kind of blame Kobe, Byron and the Lakers point guards for that. Kobe has to be smart enough to know that he's taking on too much burden and let his teammates sort of sink or swim instead of trying to ride to the rescue all of the time.

Byron has to drill it into both his and his teammates heads that even without the injuries, Kobe is 36 freakin' years old and can't carry a team for long stretches anymore. This may even mean sitting Kobe during stretches of the game when he would normally be in so they can figure it out.

Lastly, the point guards need to be more assertive and basically tell Kobe to get the fuck out of the way and let them run the offense and get him his shots.

 

[Retroram52]

I agree TJF12. The time has come for managment of Kobe especially down the stretch. I think Lin might be ready for that responsibility as he has proven when he is not in there and the burden falls soley on Kobe, disaster usually ensues. Swaggy also has proven that he can win the big as he did in San Antonio.

If Kobe would pass the ball down the stretch and trust his teammates like he says he wants to, then I think the frustration that Swaggy and Lin are feeling might be assuaged. San Antonio has old players but because they play as a team, the guy that normally gets open has the last shot. Teams know that Kobe is going to get the ball down the stretch and therefore he is often fighting through a double or even triple team. His play has now become counter-productive to a certain degree.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

I think there are a couple of problems re: Kobe. For one, you have to remember that coming into this season he had literally played almost zero basketball for a year and a half. It takes awhile to get his legs and touch back.

His legs are the bigger of the 2 problems. When he has those back, his touch will improve. That's why there have been several games where he is at 50% or better early in the game, but then falls off dramatically in the 2nd half. Also, we've all seen those games in the past where he starts off shooting poorly, but then "shoots himself out of the slump" and goes on tear in the 2nd half. He doesn't have the legs to do that right now.

The other problem is that he is having to do too much and I think that wears him down as well. He's not only having to try to get his game/shot back, but help out at point guard as well.

I kind of blame Kobe, Byron and the Lakers point guards for that. Kobe has to be smart enough to know that he's taking on too much burden and let his teammates sort of sink or swim instead of trying to ride to the rescue all of the time.

Byron has to drill it into both his and his teammates heads that even without the injuries, Kobe is 36 freakin' years old and can't carry a team for long stretches anymore. This may even mean sitting Kobe during stretches of the game when he would normally be in so they can figure it out.

Lastly, the point guards need to be more assertive and basically tell Kobe to get the fuck out of the way and let them run the offense and get him his shots.

TJ

I agree with what you are saying.

That's why I said his ego is writing checks his body can't cash.

Knowing he's been out of the game that long, most players would allow their body time to adjust to the game before taking on all he does. However, his ego is too big to allow it, thinking he has to do it all and refuses to defer to his teammates ( which is making them frustrated ). You can start to understand why no FA's want to come to Lakers to play with him when he refuses to admit he's not 28 yr old Kobe anymore.

The only positive that might come from this is the fact that the Lakers may end up keeping their first round pick if Kobe keeps playing this way.

 

[trojanfan12]

TJ

I agree with what you are saying.

That's why I said his ego is writing checks his body can't cash.

Knowing he's been out of the game that long, most players would allow their body time to adjust to the game before taking on all he does. However, his ego is too big to allow it, thinking he has to do it all and refuses to defer to his teammates ( which is making them frustrated ). You can start to understand why no FA's want to come to Lakers to play with him when he refuses to admit he's not 28 yr old Kobe anymore.

The only positive that might come from this is the fact that the Lakers may end up keeping their first round pick if Kobe keeps playing this way.

Unfortunately, with all-time great, hyper-competitive players like Kobe, you take the good with the bad. That same attitude and ego that have made him a 5 time champion, future first ballot hall of famer and one of the all-time greats, is actually hurting him and the team this year.

That's why I say that Byron and his teammates, particularly the PG's, need to step up and sort of force the issue. Left to his own devices, Kobe is gonna do what Kobe's always done, try to win every single game, even if he has to do it all by himself.

 

[Retroram52]

Yep, like Lin has begun to do down the stretch when he is in there with Kobe is for Lin to ignore Kobe and take the shot. Unfortunately, Scott has taken Lin out along with Boozer down the stretch and it is just playing into the same scenario.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

Unfortunately, with all-time great, hyper-competitive players like Kobe, you take the good with the bad. That same attitude and ego that have made him a 5 time champion, future first ballot hall of famer and one of the all-time greats, is actually hurting him and the team this year.

That's why I say that Byron and his teammates, particularly the PG's, need to step up and sort of force the issue. Left to his own devices, Kobe is gonna do what Kobe's always done, try to win every single game, even if he has to do it all by himself.

But he wasn't always that way.

He used to rely on his teammates more.

Now, when he is working back from injuries and game conditioning, you would thing common sense would kick in and he would rely on his teammates more, not less.

 

[trojanfan12]

But he wasn't always that way.

He used to rely on his teammates more.

Now, when he is working back from injuries and game conditioning, you would thing common sense would kick in and he would rely on his teammates more, not less.

His teammates used to be guys like Shaq, Robert Horry, Rick Fox, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, etc. Now, his teammates are guys like Jordan Hill, Jeremy Lin, Ronnie Price, Carlos Boozer and Wes Johnson. Who are you going to trust more?

Remember the years between Shaq leaving and Pau arriving? He did the exact same thing he's doing now, only he was a lot younger and could actually carry that kind of load for 40+ minutes per game.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

His teammates used to be guys like Shaq, Robert Horry, Rick Fox, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, etc. Now, his teammates are guys like Jordan Hill, Jeremy Lin, Ronnie Price, Carlos Boozer and Wes Johnson. Who are you going to trust more?

Remember the years between Shaq leaving and Pau arriving? He did the exact same thing he's doing now, only he was a lot younger and could actually carry that kind of load for 40+ minutes per game.

How are you going to learn to trust your teammates if you don't even try?

Those years between Shaq and Gasol were worse than his teammates are now. And he's older so he should be leaning on them more.

You can make excuses for his play, but there really is no excuse for his play at his age and having been out of the game for so long.

 

[wildturkey]

Kobe is a smart guy. Listen to him talk for awhile about anything, not just basketball, and you get the sense that he likely has a pretty darn high IQ. He's not your average dude. So what's odd to me is he is that smart, yet he can't look at his own numbers, feel how much he's forcing things, and not step back and say "I need to adjust here". The only thing that can be is a prime example of pride and ego taking control over oneself. Yeah, he's getting his points, but its by volume only and he's laboring HARD to get there. If he'd scale back, trust just a tad more in his teammates, and use his smarts, he could still get his numbers but with a 3rd less attempts. The other HOFers his age are doing it (Dirk, Duncan, etc) and he's just as good or better than them so he could too if he focused on it. It's just a matter of if/when he will. I sort of thing he's going to have to hit a brickwall of fatigue before he realizes "I can't keep this up". I just hope that brickwall doesn't include another injury. Because the minutes he's playing and the amount of labor he's putting up to get his points makes him a high risk for injury given his age and previous injuries

 

[trojanfan12]

How are you going to learn to trust your teammates if you don't even try?

Those years between Shaq and Gasol were worse than his teammates are now. And he's older so he should be leaning on them more.

You can make excuses for his play, but there really is no excuse for his play at his age and having been out of the game for so long.

Kobe is a smart guy. Listen to him talk for awhile about anything, not just basketball, and you get the sense that he likely has a pretty darn high IQ. He's not your average dude. So what's odd to me is he is that smart, yet he can't look at his own numbers, feel how much he's forcing things, and not step back and say "I need to adjust here". The only thing that can be is a prime example of pride and ego taking control over oneself. Yeah, he's getting his points, but its by volume only and he's laboring HARD to get there. If he'd scale back, trust just a tad more in his teammates, and use his smarts, he could still get his numbers but with a 3rd less attempts. The other HOFers his age are doing it (Dirk, Duncan, etc) and he's just as good or better than them so he could too if he focused on it. It's just a matter of if/when he will. I sort of thing he's going to have to hit a brickwall of fatigue before he realizes "I can't keep this up". I just hope that brickwall doesn't include another injury. Because the minutes he's playing and the amount of labor he's putting up to get his points makes him a high risk for injury given his age and previous injuries

I agree 100% with both of you. Kobe is definitely smart enough to be able to look at this and know that it isn't sustainable. I'd be willing to bet that when he looks at his stats and watches film of the games, he even thinks many of the exact things you both have said.

The problem with guys that are that hyper competitive is that once the game starts and the adrenaline starts flowing, it becomes very difficult to do the things that he knows he needs to do because he wants to win so badly. Plus, he has so much confidence in himself that he just knows that next shot is going to fall.

I think he'll get it figured out as the season progresses, but until he does, there are going to be some ugly games.

Good thing we all knew that they weren't making the playoffs this year anyway.

 

[Retroram52]

Tonight was one of those ugly nights. 8 for 28. Not good and Kobe looked really tired at the end.

 

[trojanfan12]

Tonight was one of those ugly nights. 8 for 28. Not good and Kobe looked really tired at the end.

Interesting comments from both Byron and Kobe following the game last night. It looks like Byron is considering sitting Kobe for a game or 2 here and there ala Pop with Timmy, Manu and Parker.

Byron on holding Kobe out of future games for rest:

I'm going to think about it tonight, I'm going to sit down with Kobe tomorrow and we'll talk about it and we'll come up with a solution and try to figure out the next few days and what we want to do.

Kobe, who hates to miss any game for any reason seems like he might agree:

Probably not much of an option really. Just got to look at the body and see how it responds and the amount of workload and stuff like that. It might make sense.

On the idea that some of us have mentioned about him trying to do too much:

I didn't anticipate having to try to do so much. I take a lot of pride in trying to play all 82, obviously. People come and spend their hard earned money to watch us play and are hoping I'm out there, so I try to take that into account every single night.

Byron is still lamenting guys standing around when Kobe has the ball and Jeremy Lin seems to agree:

You can't put all of the blame or whatever in terms of flow, on one person. I think this is something we as a team need to get to. Not just tonight, but in general.

Swaggy P, of course, is more than willing to help lighten Kobe's workload:

I'm always down to shoulder the load. He still goes out there every night and tries to get his best. We need Kobe out there and he knows it. But he don't need to kill himself. That's what I'm here for.

 

[lakersrule]

Kobe basically admitted last night that he can't shoulder this type of load anymore. The problem is that he's has to try to on this first unit. The current starting lineup lacks offensive players. Kobe is really the only one that can generate shots. Unless Boozer is reinserted as a starter, Kobe is going to have to be counted on to produce at a high level. Unfortunately, he can't anymore. At least not consistently.

 

[Retroram52]

Yep, Kobe is realizing his body is not responding to the demands of his ego and he is going to have to go into Spurs management mode to survive the 82-game schedule. He is accepting begrudgingly that he is not the young stud anymore and he can't do this buy himself. So, I am sure we will see him less so as the season progresses.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Kobe simply doesn't trust his teammates. He trusts Nick Young more than anyone else on the team, when the Lakers had guys like Pau and Fisher, this type of thing wasn't happening.

 

[Retroram52]

Well, Kobe can get some help because Detroit just released Josh Smith. He's available.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I think you might as well take Monroe off the table too, I think Stan Van likes his game. Might indicate why Monroe said he wasn't looking for a trade a few days back.

 

[trojanfan12]

Well, Kobe can get some help because Detroit just released Josh Smith. He's available.

Not sure what I think about that. He's a talented player and the Lakers have the injury exception or whatever that is, to possibly get him, but he's a bit of a headcase. Seems like a band-aid rather than any kind of a real solution.

 

[lakersrule]

I doubt Smith would consider the Lakers. I'm guessing he wants to play on a contender. Houston will get him.