Haslett must go

[Sharkinva]

Think back to when Tomlinson sat out over a sprained MCL. He took a ton of crap that was unwarranted. "He should have played through it. It's just a sprain." That was being said frequently.

That's what guys like RG3 will remember. They want to be the hero. They think about Michael Jordan scoring the "double nickel" on NY with a 103 degree temperature. There was no way RG3 could see the potential of being injured further.

He has outplayed Tannehill. We have seen the potential of RG3 and we loved it. We have seen a guy that can hit 70% of his passes and not throw it to the wrong team. He still have to work on mechanics but you can't do that when you aren't cleared to practice. How much better would we be with those picks and Tannehill at QB? I'm betting we wouldn't be any better.

No one gaver up 4 draft picks to get Tomlinson. So its not a realistic comparison. And RG3 aint hitting 70% of his targets this year, and in fact Im not going to be shocked if he finishes the season with more INTsa than TDs with the way he is playing. I disagree, we would likely be better than a 3-7 team with tannehill, and the players we likely could have gotten with those picks. Its funny that Miami has almost the worst offense in the league, but will likely make the playoffs.

Some around here are hanging their hats on the great RG3, and yet we will likely be picking in the top ten... well if we hadnt pissed that pick away in the trade.

 

[gkekoa]

So if they are the worst offense in the league, it must be their defense that is winning those games.

The team that has all our other picks is STL...remind me how they're doing.

 

[j_y19]

Shark, I'll agree that if during RG3s tenure here we do not win a SB or two, the trade will be considered a bust. We went all in on RG3. But to write him off after one inconsistent season in which he is coming off of a major injury and a significant scheme change is premature, at best. RG3 has to learn a new skill. How to read defenses and how to go through a route progression. This should be of no surprise to anyone. I guess my question is what makes you think he can't learn to do this?

As to if we should accept the "normal growing pains" from RG3 because of what we gave up for him.....really? He is a 23 year old young man. He is not superman. I can point to ten HOF QBs that sucked their first couple of years. No one should have thought that we were getting a finished product when we made that trade. What we traded for was the potential to develop an end product that could transform the position. I still believe he has that potential, but its not like just turning on a switch. It requires study, practice and live reps. Since he had no offseason to practice, this development has been delayed. Its way too early to call RG3 a bust.

 

[Sharkinva]

J_Y, Im not calling him a bust yet. Im just tired of the excuses made for him. Its the defenses fault, its the WRs fault. Or the coaches. Fact is, when you give up 4 high picks for a guy, he should be as close to a finished product as possible. If not, well then you got to wonder on the logic of picking him. When you pay more, you expect more. We payed 4 times the going rate for a top prospect. Sorry if I expect him to be improving instead of regressing.

 

[j_y19]

Shark, in your defense, you were one of the few that was questioning the value we gave to get RG3. I remember debating you and, while I was also shocked at the value, made the argument that we needed a QB and without one, nothing else mattered (within reason). So I respect your right to take a jaundiced view of this situation. Having said this, I also remember last year, when he was tearing it up, you humbly offered that it was a good move.

Consequently, I would like for you to think about what has changed from last year, when you were on his bandwagon, to this year, when you question if he is worth what we gave up. I offer that his regression is based on two factors. First, I really don't think you are fair when you overlook the damage his injury did to all parts of his game and the Redskins offense. This injury screwed everything from his mechanics to the scheme we run. But players can, and do, overcome major injuries with time and regain their old form. Young ones even progress in their capabilities. Second, we are trying to force fit RG3 into a pocket passer this year. This is a year in which he has a suspect OL in pocket protection and has never had to develop the necessary skills required to be a pocket passer. This doesn't mean he can't develop them, it just takes time and practice. One could arguably question why we are forcing it this year. I know I do. But everyone knew he wasn't a pocket QB in college. So I struggle with your re-emerged questions about RG3 after your support from last year. I understand your concern but I really would suggest you give the kid some time. I'll bet right now that this time next year, he will be miles ahead of where he is today (assuming no injury setbacks). I expect he will bust his ass this offseason to work on this skill. I also hope that we try not to pigeon hole him too much as a pocket passer. I'd like to see us employ more of a hybrid passing scheme that involves moving the pocket to give our agile OL to better use their skills and RG3 out in space where havoc can be reaped again.

Hang in there pal, we got a good one, but they all need a little honing.

 

[gkekoa]

J_Y, Im not calling him a bust yet. Im just tired of the excuses made for him. Its the defenses fault, its the WRs fault. Or the coaches. Fact is, when you give up 4 high picks for a guy, he should be as close to a finished product as possible. If not, well then you got to wonder on the logic of picking him. When you pay more, you expect more. We payed 4 times the going rate for a top prospect. Sorry if I expect him to be improving instead of regressing.

There are excuses for him though. It's a legitimate excuse to have mental reservations after the severity of his second leg injury. Most athletes take more than a year to recover mentally from the injury. It's not his fault what was given for him. It was a calculated risk.

It's all on RG3 for not knowing the playbook or doing enough film study. There is no excuse for it, regardless of the picks given up for him. His interaction with the media is all on RG3 as well.

Not having an offseason to improve on mechanics is not his fault. He didn't have an offseason.

Last year was a taste of the capabilities of a healthy (physical and mental) RG3. Last year showed that he has the ability to be worth that trade.

What would we have had if we didn't trade for RG3? Ryan Tannehill at QB, Janoris Jenkins at CB, Desmond Trufant at CB, and our 2014 pick. If we had taken Tannehill instead, this 2014 pick is likely to be a QB in this upcoming draft.

I am one of RG3's biggest critics but I still like what we got for the trade when he's healthy.

 

[skinsdad62]

i dont give a damn how much you study a playbook or look at film . if you cant take that to the practice field and apply it it doesnt much matter

geez you think you can handa rifle marksmanship book to a private , have him study it , look at some films on how to use it and think you are going to send him down range and get him to shoot expert ? i know in the army they give you at least 40 practice rounds before you qualify

i dont care how much we gave up to get Rg3 . we did what many advocated when sanchez and bradford were drafted by some of the biggest whiners complaining about RG3

and again most any GM would take RG3 over tannehill and if you wanted a bus driver then we had one in JC who you couldnt wait to gut a draft or 2 to get a franchise qb for

top it off i have showed A Gazillion stats showing how the o/line isnt as bad as everyone makes it out to be but the chief anti-Rg3'r has spent days telling me the stats dont matter the o/line sucks

my question is how can RG3 do anything when he is on the ground counting clouds ? you said it not me shark you said the o/line stinks and now after i said it isnt all their fault now RG3 is a bust

i can parade a list of HOF qbs who have started out far worse then RG3 (i did it during the JC years ) so what do you want ?
we swapped a player and gave up 3 more to get him . no one knows what those players would have done . they could have been busts too

and lastly why is RG3 being bashed for "stubbornly " trying to play through an injury when guys like LDT and Cutler were soundly bashed for not doing so

 

[gkekoa]

i dont give a damn how much you study a playbook or look at film . if you cant take that to the practice field and apply it it doesnt much matter

geez you think you can handa rifle marksmanship book to a private , have him study it , look at some films on how to use it and think you are going to send him down range and get him to shoot expert ? i know in the army they give you at least 40 practice rounds before you qualify

Yes but they can recite the proper way to do it.


and lastly why is RG3 being bashed for "stubbornly " trying to play through an injury when guys like LDT and Cutler were soundly bashed for not doing so

This was my point as well.


Anybody who doesn't have reservations about the future success of RG3 is too much an optimist.

Anybody who doesn't think RG3 has the ability to succeed in the NFL is too much a pessimist.

If you can't see that RG3's career can go either way, you are either not intelligent enough to learn from the past or they are unable to have an open mind.

 

[skinsdad62]

This was my point as well.


Anybody who doesn't have reservations about the future success of RG3 is too much an optimist.

Anybody who doesn't think RG3 has the ability to succeed in the NFL is too much a pessimist.

If you can't see that RG3's career can go either way, you are either not intelligent enough to learn from the past or they are unable to have an open mind.

right now i believe the kid will be fine . nothing is etched in stone , but from what i have seen from him and heard from him i think the odds are in his favor of being a stellar player

 

[gkekoa]

right now i believe the kid will be fine . nothing is etched in stone , but from what i have seen from him and heard from him i think the odds are in his favor of being a stellar player

I also believe he can succeed. Physically, there is no doubt. He works hard and worked hard to get back from the injury. He always has worked hard physically.

My reservations come from his study habits. Some people find it easy to work hard on the physical but struggle to work on what they see as less fun. While you believe he has done everything he can in the film room and with the playbook, I disagree. I relate what he's doing to being a pilot. He should have gone through everything that can happen mentally so he has a plan and can stay calm when things go wrong. To me...he has shown he hasn't done this.

 

[Krusheasy]

Keim on Has

Keim: If you're a Jim Haslett defender, here's your case: The Redskins' organization has not always provided the defense the best possible tools, especially in the secondary. The salary cap situation hit the defense hardest (the only two big splashes they made in 2012 free agency were receivers Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan). The defense did not get any such up-and-coming players, instead opting for players unwanted by previous teams. Brian Orakpo took a long time to get his full strength back from his pectoral injuries, which has impacted the rush at times; losing Adam Carriker hurt. Haslett did not assemble the players or the coaching staff. Two years ago they were 13th in the NFL in total yards (but 21st in points, the metric they use more). The injuries and fluidity at safety have limited the defense and forced them to use corners as safeties at times. There's your case; take it or leave it.

Keim: Haslett was creative last year because they couldn't generate anything out of a four-man rush. I wonder if we'll start to see more of that considering the inconsistent pressure. Talent is an issue, but the organization has failed to put together a better defense. I thought if all went well with the defense they'd be average. I would not say coaching is the main reason for the defensive problems. Has it made them better? Can't say that's the case and ultimately that's what coaching needs to do. The problem with the defense is that this is not some young unit ready to ascend. Only four key players -- Perry Riley, Ryan Kerrigan, Jarvis Jenkins and David Amerson -- will be 26 or younger in 2014. We're back to an aging defense in need of a makeover. Which is where we were at four years ago. You can get rid of Haslett, there will still be questions. When you fail like this it's never about one thing, though great coaching can compensate.

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/3178/redskins-mailbag-part-2-9

 

[skinz2winz]

J_Y, Im not calling him a bust yet. Im just tired of the excuses made for him. Its the defenses fault, its the WRs fault. Or the coaches. Fact is, when you give up 4 high picks for a guy, he should be as close to a finished product as possible. If not, well then you got to wonder on the logic of picking him. When you pay more, you expect more. We payed 4 times the going rate for a top prospect. Sorry if I expect him to be improving instead of regressing.

This logic is flawed Shark. While we paid too much for RG3 to bring in a franchise QB, which he delivered a NFCE Title in his rookie season with one hell of abysmal roster or playmakers around him, he still delivered and sacrificed his body doing so. Coming off a major knee surgery with relatively the same abysmal roster around him, all those ugly things (roster) that were masked by his ability and freak nature of motivating this team to victories those last 7 weeks of last season have reared their ugly heads. Not too mention, you may start taking a closer look at the coaching staff when questioning why RG3 has regressed this season. Does the current offensive scheme give him and the team the best chance too succeed? I would have to say no given the play calling from Kyle this season. We never go no huddle, we never audible at the LOS, and we never really adjust the play calling to take advantage of weakness' in the defense imo. You know, create the miss-matches. Or is it that we have no playmakers (less Garcon or Reed) that can create any type of miss-match. I think the latter is likely more likely.

Bottom line is yes, we over paid because Mike and the organization were reaching however, don't put that soley on RG3. The overall product takes time, better players around him and a coaching staff that knows WTH they are doing.

 

[skinz2winz]

I also believe he can succeed. Physically, there is no doubt. He works hard and worked hard to get back from the injury. He always has worked hard physically.

My reservations come from his study habits. Some people find it easy to work hard on the physical but struggle to work on what they see as less fun. While you believe he has done everything he can in the film room and with the playbook, I disagree. I relate what he's doing to being a pilot. He should have gone through everything that can happen mentally so he has a plan and can stay calm when things go wrong. To me...he has shown he hasn't done this.

C'mon GK, you don't know how much time he puts in off the field. You are assuming or guessing based upon his play. I put the regression on his coaches, lack of talent around him and a defense that creates many problems for the offense. You guys can look for excuses to point the finger, I'm sticking with RG3 being the next great QB once we see changes in the coaching staff and personnel in general.

 

[Sharkinva]

This logic is flawed Shark. While we paid too much for RG3 to bring in a franchise QB, which he delivered a NFCE Title in his rookie season with one hell of abysmal roster or playmakers around him, he still delivered and sacrificed his body doing so. Coming off a major knee surgery with relatively the same abysmal roster around him, all those ugly things (roster) that were masked by his ability and freak nature of motivating this team to victories those last 7 weeks of last season have reared their ugly heads. Not too mention, you may start taking a closer look at the coaching staff when questioning why RG3 has regressed this season. Does the current offensive scheme give him and the team the best chance too succeed? I would have to say no given the play calling from Kyle this season. We never go no huddle, we never audible at the LOS, and we never really adjust the play calling to take advantage of weakness' in the defense imo. You know, create the miss-matches. Or is it that we have no playmakers (less Garcon or Reed) that can create any type of miss-match. I think the latter is likely more likely.

Bottom line is yes, we over paid because Mike and the organization were reaching however, don't put that soley on RG3. The overall product takes time, better players around him and a coaching staff that knows WTH they are doing.

Skinz... Im basically going to leave this alone after this post. But truth is, we paid a price as if we were getting a guy who was a franchise player. What we appear to have gotten is a guy who is an option QB. I think a big part of the reason we dont adjust at the line is because he is poor at reading defenses.. Good Qbs have a habit of making the players around them better. Our QB seems to want to blame everything from the line, to the coaches and WRs when he doesnt get it done. I seriously thought the trade was a mistake when we made it. I was fooled by the results of last year. But the more you look at him as a player, you see that aside from running the option type offenses, his game is flawed. Now can he improve?? Sure. But i dont think it will happen until he gets beyond the RGMe phase. Currently this team is known for making bad Free agent moves, Bad trades, and bad draft moves. This move has high potential for being both the worst trade ever and worst use of multiple drafts picks ever in one fell swoop. I for one wont be making any more excuses for him.

 

[gkekoa]

C'mon GK, you don't know how much time he puts in off the field. You are assuming or guessing based upon his play. I put the regression on his coaches, lack of talent around him and a defense that creates many problems for the offense. You guys can look for excuses to point the finger, I'm sticking with RG3 being the next great QB once we see changes in the coaching staff and personnel in general.

No matter how much time he has put in...it's not enough.

How are you putting the regression on the coaches?

This is the same talent that surrounded him last season, so how are you blaming them?

The defense still sucks but our offense has put the defense in horrible situations this season.

 

[skinsdad62]

No matter how much time he has put in...it's not enough.

How are you putting the regression on the coaches?

This is the same talent that surrounded him last season, so how are you blaming them?

The defense still sucks but our offense has put the defense in horrible situations this season.

i think doing all that rehab put a huge dent in his ability to study film

next season all that rehab time goes to study time .

the guy also has a life too . during the season there is practice , film study , travel etc which dominates his life etc. . in the off season he needs time to be with family and decompress

for the love of God he was working out on his honeymoon

wilson newton and luck have taken steps back in year 2 . are you saying all of them are lazy no good bums because they didnt put 12 hours in film study a day and are shirking their responsibilities ?

 

[gkekoa]

i think doing all that rehab put a huge dent in his ability to study film

next season all that rehab time goes to study time .

the guy also has a life too . during the season there is practice , film study , travel etc which dominates his life etc. . in the off season he needs time to be with family and decompress

for the love of God he was working out on his honeymoon

wilson newton and luck have taken steps back in year 2 . are you saying all of them are lazy no good bums because they didnt put 12 hours in film study a day and are shirking their responsibilities ?

1) You can't blame the rehab. He didn't rehab 10 hours/day because that would be unhealthy on the knee. The first three months following the surgery, he was not rehabbing...he was recovering.

2) Their job does not stop in the "offseason." They are paid multi-millions for their job. Their job is to be the best professional football player they can be.

3) He worked out on his honeymoon because he's a workout warrior. He always has been and always will be.

4) Neither Wilson nor Newton took a "step back" in year 2. Look again.