Has Lebron passed Kobe on the all time list?

[Wamu]

I have. All but Wilt thanks.

Again, to say LeBron is "nowhere near Bird" is ignorant. I get that some want to rank Bird ahead. Not many, but some. You can't say he isn't close. It is much easier to make the other case that Bird isn't close to LeBron.

LeBron has more MVPs, more Finals MVPs, more all NBA first team, 5-0 all defense first team, LBJ won a scoring title, Bird never did.

Their stats are fairly comparable otherwise, but keep in mind that pace of play in the 80s was a lot faster than it has been throughout LeBron's career.

Again, if you say LeBron is not close to Bird, I do not know what objective facts you can claim for your side. Other than your perception of Bird vs. a player you clearly don't like, I do not think you have anything to hang your hat on.

Larry the Legend is my all time favorite NBAer. But I have LeBron ranked ahead of him.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I have. All but Wilt thanks.

Again, to say LeBron is "nowhere near Bird" is ignorant. I get that some want to rank Bird ahead. Not many, but some. You can't say he isn't close. It is much easier to make the other case that Bird isn't close to LeBron.

LeBron has more MVPs, more Finals MVPs, more all NBA first team, 5-0 all defense first team, LBJ won a scoring title, Bird never did.

Their stats are fairly comparable otherwise, but keep in mind that pace of play in the 80s was a lot faster than it has been throughout LeBron's career.

Again, if you say LeBron is not close to Bird, I do not know what objective facts you can claim for your side. Other than your perception of Bird vs. a player you clearly don't like, I do not think you have anything to hang your hat on.

I hate Larry more than I hate lebron. But i've seen Larry play against tougher opponents and get better results.

Lebron hasn't had much competition when it comes to opposing players. His biggest threat was Kobe just past his prime.

 

[tlance]

I hate Larry more than I hate lebron. But i've seen Larry play against tougher opponents and get better results.

Lebron hasn't had much competition when it comes to opposing players. His biggest threat was Kobe just past his prime.

I actually just proved that Bird's results were not better.

It is not the fact that you personally rank Bird higher than LeBron that I am contesting here. You are welcome to that opinion. Most would disagree, but whatever.

The issue is that you say it isn't even close.

By the way, the SPurs were Damn good. Maybe not Showtime Laker good, but still. This year's Warriors? It depends on how the year finish the playoffs, but I think we will hear more than a couple Laker comparisons by the end.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

It is not the fact that you personally rank Bird higher than LeBron that I am contesting here. You are welcome to that opinion. Most would disagree, but whatever.

"Most" who never watched any ball in the 80s or even 90s for that matter

 

[Wamu]

"Most" who never watched any ball in the 80s or even 90s for that matter

You really should take a moment & look up their career accomplishments. Oh hell I'll just list some anyway...

-MVP awards: LeBron- 4 / Bird- 3
-Finals MVP: LeBron- 3 / Bird- 2
-All NBA 1st team: LeBron- 10 / Bird- 9
-All NBA teams (total selections): LeBron- 12 / Bird- 10
-Defensive 1st team: LeBron- 5 / Bird- 0
-All defensive teams (total selections): LeBron- 6 / Bird- 3
-Scoring titles: LeBron- 1/ Bird- 0
-Rookie of the Year: 1 each

LeBron has Bird beat in every category. And he has better career scoring, assists, steals, blocks & FG% numbers.

 

[tducey]

Yeah he has, Lebron's approaching top 5 all time status:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Magic
5. Russell
6. Bird
7. Lebron

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

You really should take a moment & look up their career accomplishments. Oh hell I'll just list some anyway...

-MVP awards: LeBron- 4 / Bird- 3
-Finals MVP: LeBron- 3 / Bird- 2
-All NBA 1st team: LeBron- 10 / Bird- 9
-All NBA teams (total selections): LeBron- 12 / Bird- 10
-Defensive 1st team: LeBron- 5 / Bird- 0
-All defensive teams (total selections): LeBron- 6 / Bird- 3
-Scoring titles: LeBron- 1/ Bird- 0
-Rookie of the Year: 1 each

LeBron has Bird beat in every category. And he has better career scoring, assists, steals, blocks & FG% numbers.

Bird played against MJ, Magic, Kareem, Hakeem, I.Thomas, and about another dozen guys who round out the top 30 of all time.

Now factor that in...

 

[LAD]

if at this point you dont have LeBron in your top 5 overall its hard to take your opinion as credible. Its just how it is at this point.

Well you're probably not the most credible poster to point that out. It's just how it is at this point.

 

[tlance]

Bird played against MJ, Magic, Kareem, Hakeem, I.Thomas, and about another dozen guys who round out the top 30 of all time.

Now factor that in...

Eh...

Not sure it works like that.

Many of the players on those lists were not in their primes when Bird faced them. Thomas and Magic were. Bird was starting to fade before MJ and Akeem became full fledged superstars. Kareem's best years took place before Bird entered the league.

LeBron has faced his fair share too....

Kobe, Dirk, Duncan, Shaq, and a large number of current players who will appear on those lists when their careers near completion. Guys like Curry, KD and potentially many more.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Eh...

Not sure it works like that.

Many of the players on those lists were not in their primes when Bird faced them. Thomas and Magic were. Bird was starting to fade before MJ and Akeem became full fledged superstars. Kareem's best years took place before Bird entered the league.

LeBron has faced his fair share too....

Kobe, Dirk, Duncan, Shaq, and a large number of current players who will appear on those lists when their careers near completion. Guys like Curry, KD and potentially many more.

I think Bird is better than lebron.

Have a coke and a smile and stop getting your panties in a bunch.

 

[tlance]

I think Bird is better than lebron.

Have a coke and a smile and stop getting your panties in a bunch.

I think Bird is better than lebron.

Have a coke and a smile and stop getting your panties in a bunch.

LOL.

Classic Shaqdaddy.

You have no material, so you just make comments like these.

Like I said. Feel free to say you think Bird is better. Saying it isn't close just makes you look bad.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think Bird is better than lebron.

Have a coke and a smile and stop getting your panties in a bunch.

hey - its your right to be wrong.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm at the office.

Get back to work. I'm not paying you to fuck around on the internet all day.

 

[DorianRo]

Its funny the Same Lebron fans knocking Russell for playing in the 1960s, isn't using the same method in comparing Birds OBVIOUSLY SUPERIOR competition (no comparison) to their boy.

Double Standards/Hypocrites much??


You want to factor in competition, Bird is superior to Lebron in every conceivable way. So is Duncan factoring in the West competition in the 2000's. So is Shaq. So is Kobe. All played against vastly superior competition

While LeBron is over the chilling in the JV girl League in the weakest conference ever. Playing some SHIT like the Raptors in the 2nd round missing their 2nd best player or the lousy Pacers in the first round.

 

[Battlelyon]

You want to factor in competition, Bird is superior to Lebron in every conceivable way.

 

[tlance]

Its funny the Same Lebron fans knocking Russell for playing in the 1960s, isn't using the same method in comparing Birds OBVIOUSLY SUPERIOR competition (no comparison) to their boy.

Double Standards/Hypocrites much??

Not even close to the same.

Did know that many players in the 50s and 60s had to work 2nd jobs to make ends meet?

Why is that significant?

Because for one thing, the NBA was nowhere close to the dream job it is today. Competition for roster spots was minimal by comparison to the modern era.

The issue with Russell is that there were 4 players over 6'8" in the league when Wilt was drafted. The average player was so obviously inferior in 1960 to the average player today.

The 80s may have had more top line headliners, but guess what? The average player today is comparable to if not better (I believe today's average players are better) than the average player from the 80s.

There are tons of stars in the league today.

 

[DorianRo]

We also have to adjust numbers and look at the WEIGHT of the achievements when comparing across eras.

Russell deserve a spot in the top 5 because of how far above and beyond he led his team in domination of the league when you factor 5 MVPS and 11 'ships. Regardless if it was a weaker era or not, the numbers and achievements and such can't be overlooked.

Winning multiple Championships in the 80s is the equivalent of winning maybe 6-7 championships today. In Bird's game, adjusted for inflation. The East was stacked and he had teams like the Lakers and Houston in the finals. No year after year creampuff vacation walks. You're going to war with quality teams to get to the finals, and they play the top team in the West. There little to no "Vacation draws" Like we see today in the East.

Jordan had an extremely strong Eastern conference to contend with for most of the 90s and quality teams like the Blazers, Suns, Jazz, Sonic in the finals (All who would be major contenders for titles today and eventual winners).


No one can admit that the quality of the East today, even WHIFFS the quality of the East in the 80s an 90s. The quality of the either East or West conference doesn't whiff the quality of the West in the 2000s.

Lebron on the other hand when you look at the disparity of talent SHOULD dominate far more than he does. The Cavs should be a 75 win team, with maybe 1 loss in the post season every year for the last 6-7 years.

So when we adjust what the LeBron/Cavs SHOULD be doing and the quality of the competition, he needs probably 7-9 titles to get into top 5 discussion.


.. Because there is no doubt guys like Jordan/Bird wouldn't if they played in today's league with all the talent and WEAK opposition to feast off

 

[tlance]

Its funny the Same Lebron fans knocking Russell for playing in the 1960s, isn't using the same method in comparing Birds OBVIOUSLY SUPERIOR competition (no comparison) to their boy.

Double Standards/Hypocrites much??


You want to factor in competition, Bird is superior to Lebron in every conceivable way. So is Duncan factoring in the West competition in the 2000's. So is Shaq. So is Kobe. All played against vastly superior competition

While LeBron is over the chilling in the JV girl League in the weakest conference ever. Playing some SHIT like the Raptors in the 2nd round missing their 2nd best player or the lousy Pacers in the first round.

Here is the other thing you are missing.

LeBron's individual competition looks relatively weak because he is hands down the best player of his era and does not have to play himself.

Exactly like Jordan.

So now Bird is getting extra credit because he wasn't the best player in his own era? That makes no sense when comparing him to a player who obviously is the best in his.

Hell, Bird himself questions whether the current era is better than his own. What does that tell you about LeBron vs. Bird? As competitive as Bird is, I bet he would admit LeBron has surpassed him.

 

[tlance]

We also have to adjust numbers and look at the WEIGHT of the achievements when comparing across eras.

Russell deserve a spot in the top 5 because of how far above and beyond he led his team in domination of the league when you factor 5 MVPS and 11 'ships. Regardless if it was a weaker era or not, the numbers and achievements and such can't be overlooked.

Winning multiple Championships in the 80s is the equivalent of winning maybe 6-7 championships today. In Bird's game, adjusted for inflation. The East was stacked and he had teams like the Lakers and Houston in the finals. No year after year creampuff vacation walks. You're going to war with quality teams to get to the finals, and they play the top team in the West. There little to no "Vacation draws" Like we see today in the East.

Jordan had an extremely strong Eastern conference to contend with for most of the 90s and quality teams like the Blazers, Suns, Jazz, Sonic in the finals (All who would be major contenders for titles today and eventual winners).


No one can admit that the quality of the East today, even WHIFFS the quality of the East in the 80s an 90s. The quality of the either East or West conference doesn't whiff the quality of the West in the 2000s.

Lebron on the other hand when you look at the disparity of talent SHOULD dominate far more than he does. The Cavs should be a 75 win team, with maybe 1 loss in the post season every year for the last 6-7 years.

So when we adjust what the LeBron/Cavs SHOULD be doing and the quality of the competition, he needs probably 7-9 titles to get into top 5 discussion

LOL. Ok, what are you smoking?

Clearly this is a pointless conversation.

 

[tlance]

We also have to adjust numbers and look at the WEIGHT of the achievements when comparing across eras.

Russell deserve a spot in the top 5 because of how far above and beyond he led his team in domination of the league when you factor 5 MVPS and 11 'ships. Regardless if it was a weaker era or not, the numbers and achievements and such can't be overlooked.

Winning multiple Championships in the 80s is the equivalent of winning maybe 6-7 championships today. In Bird's game, adjusted for inflation. The East was stacked and he had teams like the Lakers and Houston in the finals. No year after year creampuff vacation walks. You're going to war with quality teams to get to the finals, and they play the top team in the West. There little to no "Vacation draws" Like we see today in the East.

Jordan had an extremely strong Eastern conference to contend with for most of the 90s and quality teams like the Blazers, Suns, Jazz, Sonic in the finals (All who would be major contenders for titles today and eventual winners).


No one can admit that the quality of the East today, even WHIFFS the quality of the East in the 80s an 90s. The quality of the either East or West conference doesn't whiff the quality of the West in the 2000s.

Lebron on the other hand when you look at the disparity of talent SHOULD dominate far more than he does. The Cavs should be a 75 win team, with maybe 1 loss in the post season every year for the last 6-7 years.

So when we adjust what the LeBron/Cavs SHOULD be doing and the quality of the competition, he needs probably 7-9 titles to get into top 5 discussion.


.. Because there is no doubt guys like Jordan/Bird wouldn't if they played in today's league with all the talent and WEAK opposition to feast off

So you actually believe that the Duncan Spurs and the Warriors are worse than the Jazz and the Sonics of the 90s?