Harper and Papelbon gets into fight in dugout

[Mondo Jay]

If anything Harper has been guilty at times of crashing into walls when the score was 8-1 or something. Playing too hard when he should have dialed it back. 162 games is a marathon. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

I agree with an earlier opinion that Papelbum was pissed about Harper's comments about Machado getting drilled. No way should he have publicly called out Harper like that. He had a different axe to grind...

 

[Villain]

But again, Alex Gordon. Not legging it out in game 7. How'd that work out for them?

I really don't think they're the same thing.

I don't think any of what you're saying is unfair.

But Paps is a long time big league veteran. And it's still a bad example to set for the rest of the team not legging things out. I get it that 162 games is a long time.

He didn't learn that just in one night. It might not hurt the Nats this year. But if he doesn't let something out in the playoffs...it's a problem.

There are some situations where a reliever MIGHT be able to say something to a young position player. If its Trevor Hoffman on the Padres or Mariano Rivera on the Yankees, I can see how that might be appropriate. Sure it's a relief pitcher, but these guys had been on their clubs for a decade and gone to war in those uniforms. They earned their voice in their clubhouse.

Papelbon being a douchebag newcomer, thinking he can shame the best player on the team?

Maybe if Papelbon were still on the Red Sox, he might've had the clubhouse respect to say something. But then, I think of those Sox teams and when I imagine him trying to call out a position player like that... Imagine if he said shit like that to David Ortiz or Manny Ramirez. The whole team would've put that dude through a meat grinder and Tito Francona would've spit on the remains.

If anything Harper has been guilty at times of crashing into walls when the score was 8-1 or something. Playing too hard when he should have dialed it back. 162 games is a marathon. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

I agree with an earlier opinion that Papelbum was pissed about Harper's comments about Machado getting drilled. No way should he have publicly called out Harper like that. He had a different axe to grind...

Amen.

 

[calsnowskier]

But again, Alex Gordon. Not legging it out in game 7. How'd that work out for them?

Game 7 vs a post-elimination game.

And Harper is having a Bondsian/Ruthesque season. And if he had sprinted that out at 100% effort, there still is next to 0% chance he can get more than first base out of it. hustling there is false hustle.

Does it look bad? Sure. But look at the cost/benefit. It just does not make sense to wear yourself out for zero potential gain.

 

[The Q]

I really don't think they're the same thing.

Not saying they're the same thing now.

I'm saying that's where you're heading if you don't call that sh*t out.

 

[calsnowskier]

I really don't think they're the same thing.



There are some situations where a reliever MIGHT be able to say something to a young position player. If its Trevor Hoffman on the Padres or Mariano Rivera on the Yankees, I can see how that might be appropriate. Sure it's a relief pitcher, but these guys had been on their clubs for a decade and gone to war in those uniforms. They earned their voice in their clubhouse.

Papelbon being a douchebag newcomer, thinking he can shame the best player on the team? View attachment 35201

Maybe if Papelbon were still on the Red Sox, he might've had the clubhouse respect to say something. But then, I think of those Sox teams and when I imagine him trying to call out a position player like that... Imagine if he said shit like that to David Ortiz or Manny Ramirez. The whole team would've put that dude through a meat grinder and Tito Francona would've spit on the remains.




Amen.

I posed the question in a Giants GDT a couple days ago of what would happen if Paps were a Giant and he had done something like that to Duffy or some other theoretical young player having a stud season. I laughed at the thought of how long it would take to find his body after Bum, Pence and Posey were done with him.

Paps is d-bag, but I suspect he would not have tried that trick in other dugouts. Natural self-preservation would not allow him to do that on some teams.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Could he have legged it out more? Yes.
Was that the play that he needed to be singled out on by a newcomer relief pitcher? Hell no.

This.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

But Paps is a long time big league veteran.

He's also a relief pitcher and a gaping asshole. Fucking guy has barely pitched 700 big league innings. Fuck Jonathon Papelbon with Josh Beckette's head.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

But again, Alex Gordon. Not legging it out in game 7. How'd that work out for them?

Game 7 of a world series is not the same thing as game 155 of the regular season when you're team has been eliminated.

What Gordon did sucks, but bringing it up in this context is pretty silly.

 

[Villain]

Not saying they're the same thing now.

I'm saying that's where you're heading if you don't call that sh*t out.

I understand and agree with the concern, I just don't agree that Harper is a candidate for it. As a Dodger fan, in recent history I've seen it be a problem with Puig and Kemp. It's no good and it needs to be handled, but there's a better way to go about it than barking at a guy from the dugout on live TV. There are also better guys to have that conversation.

Jeff Kent was the first who tried to reach Kemp, but Kent is an asshole so it didn't help. Larry Bowa tried to reach Kemp. Same thing - Bowa was a dick and that clubhouse was a disaster. It took Davey Lopes and Don Mattingly to crack into Kemp's self-defenses and show him the light and how to be a better teammate.

Guys to call out Puig unsuccessfully - Nick Punto, Skip Schumaker, Zack Greinke (LOL, my favorite one).
Guys to call out Puig successfully - Hanley Ramirez (I know, right? Hanley, the voice of hustle LOL), Juan Uribe.

I posed the question in a Giants GDT a couple days ago of what would happen if Paps were a Giant and he had done something like that to Duffy or some other theoretical young player having a stud season. I laughed at the thought of how long it would take to find his body after Bum, Pence and Posey were done with him.

I can imagine Romo being the first to act with a shank in the showers.

Paps is d-bag, but I suspect he would not have tried that trick in other dugouts. Natural self-preservation would not allow him to do that on some teams.

Aside from the blame that Papelbon deserves, Matt Williams should definitely be considered part of the problem on a macro scale. The manager should be squashing these issues in the clubhouse.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Imagine if he said shit like that to David Ortiz or Manny Ramirez. The whole team would've put that dude through a meat grinder and Tito Francona would've spit on the remains.

Yeah, but I bet Dustin Pedroia would have sucked his dick first.

 

[Villain]

Yeah, but I bet Dustin Pedroia would have sucked his dick first.

Pedroia's boyfriend from ASU might have something to say about that.

 

[calsnowskier]

Pedroia's boyfriend from ASU might have something to say about that.

View attachment 35218

I never saw that before. How in the hell is he STILL on that roster?

OMG!!

Donnie may be a joke manager, but you don't bow-up on your manager like that. Especially someone with the amount of general baseball cache that Donnie has earned throughout his career.

 

[calsnowskier]

I understand and agree with the concern, I just don't agree that Harper is a candidate for it. As a Dodger fan, in recent history I've seen it be a problem with Puig and Kemp. It's no good and it needs to be handled, but there's a better way to go about it than barking at a guy from the dugout on live TV. There are also better guys to have that conversation.

Jeff Kent was the first who tried to reach Kemp, but Kent is an asshole so it didn't help. Larry Bowa tried to reach Kemp. Same thing - Bowa was a dick and that clubhouse was a disaster. It took Davey Lopes and Don Mattingly to crack into Kemp's self-defenses and show him the light and how to be a better teammate.

Guys to call out Puig unsuccessfully - Nick Punto, Skip Schumaker, Zack Greinke (LOL, my favorite one).
Guys to call out Puig successfully - Hanley Ramirez (I know, right? Hanley, the voice of hustle LOL), Juan Uribe.



I can imagine Romo being the first to act with a shank in the showers.



Aside from the blame that Papelbon deserves, Matt Williams should definitely be considered part of the problem on a macro scale. The manager should be squashing these issues in the clubhouse.

LOL at Romo with the shank!

You would also never see this situation on a team managed by Scioscia, Bochy, Showwalter, Torre, Hertzog, etc. A certain culture needs to exist for this to even be on the table as a possibility.

I love Matty as a baseball entity. But as a manager? Not so much.

 

[Villain]

I never saw that before. How in the hell is he STILL on that roster?

OMG!!

Donnie may be a joke manager, but you don't bow-up on your manager like that. Especially someone with the amount of general baseball cache that Donnie has earned throughout his career.

Not sure if you're joking, but he was blowing up on the umpire not Donnie B.

Also, Ethier has been great this year. .369 wOBA and 138 wRC+

 

[GNG]

If papelbon got hit by a bus, we'd all be better off

Please include Harper.

 

[calsnowskier]

Not sure if you're joking, but he was blowing up on the umpire not Donnie B.

Also, Ethier has been great this year. .369 wOBA and 138 wRC+

Ah. That GIF makes it look like he is bowing up on Donnie.

 

[The Q]

LOL at Romo with the shank!

You would also never see this situation on a team managed by Scioscia, Bochy, Showwalter, Torre, Hertzog, etc. A certain culture needs to exist for this to even be on the table as a possibility.

I love Matty as a baseball entity. But as a manager? Not so much.

You could say the same thing about Mattingly.

They're both in Ned Yost's class as far as inept managers go.