Harold Baines! ... H.O.F.!

[StanMarsh51]

remove the pitchers then. you're a waste of time. i've been here long enough. there are actually intelligent people to talk to. bye bye dick ... i mean stan.

So did you intentionally present that 260 number knowing that there were pitchers, ***** League players, and players who played in the 1800s when a season was 70 games long?

That would make you a con artist.....

 

[nebearsfan70]

So many haters come out of the wood work. Just amazing.

All I can say is Baines is in the HOF.

 

[Guy Incognito]

La Russa: Baines' HOF detractors are weak

Hall of Fame manager Tony La Russa calls the arguments against the selection of Harold Baines to the Hall of Fame as "weak-a-- superficial bulls---."


At one point Russo brought up Al Oliver, who had similar career statistics to Baines (and a higher career WAR, 43.7 to 38.7).

"Al Oliver is not better than he is, no disrespect to Al Oliver," La Russa responded. "I used to watch you because I thought you knew the game. I'm going to start calling you clueless."

Tony's an angry drunk, still.

 

[StanMarsh51]

war never did figure in to hall selection. there WAS no war in kaline's day, remember?
apparently you agree then with this rabble that baines is the worst hall choice in history?
i discovered arguing with you is a go no where waste of time. i'll just let you tear harold apart too because you feel he's unworthy.

So you don't think WAR is useful for seeing how good Baines was?

You seemed to think WAR was useful plenty times before:

21.82
6 years with seattle ... 3.89 era war 18.9 (avg 3.15)
5 years with chicago ... 4.33 era war 12.6 (avg 2.52)

21.82
worst war since 2010 and highest whip since 2010.

Beckham dealt to LAA Angels
altho his defensive war shows him to be extremely poor

dunn is done!
throw in the fact his offensive war was worse this year than last

Sox part of a trade
but eaton hasn't proven a thing either. look at the war ratings for each

Tim Anderson and Where he fits (or doesn't) in our Future
sanchez was a 3.5 war player last year, his first full season. in his parts of 3 seasons moncada hasn't come close to that yet



But WAR all of a sudden doesn't matter, because you pick and choose when it matters to suit your argument...when guys like Bernie Williams, Dale Murphy and Lance Berkman have a better career WAR than Baines, WAR doesn't matter because it hurts your argument, yet you have no issue saying that Freddy Garcia was better in Seattle than with Chicago because he had a higher WAR in Seattle.

 

[Jiddy]

blah blah blah *teeth gnashing*

Everyone focuses on the points of their argument...Same reason why you glossed over the following question and carried on with the WAR palabra...It doesn't suit yours:

Runs Batted In All Time Leaders on Baseball Almanac

Here's a list. Tell me how many aren't either in or on their way to the HOF in the top 50...

It is also why you ignored my commentary about how you never watched Harold Baines play....A fact which makes you arguing against him highly comical.

But by all means, keep attempting to be right on the internet. I'm sure you'll feel you've got there by the time this is all said and done and will pat yourself on the back. "I got 'em hard with that WAR thing!" *self high five*

PS: Harold's still in the hall. *kisses*

 

[StanMarsh51]

Everyone focuses on the points of their argument...Same reason why you glossed over the following question and carried on with the WAR palabra...It doesn't suit yours:



It is also why you ignored my commentary about how you never watched Harold Baines play....A fact which makes you arguing against him highly comical.

But by all means, keep attempting to be right on the internet. I'm sure you'll feel you've got there by the time this is all said and done and will pat yourself on the back. "I got 'em hard with that WAR thing!" *self high five*

PS: Harold's still in the hall. *kisses*

So the only reason he's HOF worthy is because he's 34th all-time in RBI while being 20th all-time in games played?

Baines played a lot more games to get to 1628 RBI than many, if not most guys in that ranking....I mean, he's got a whopping 33 more RBI than Mike Schmidt for instance - in 400+ more games, or 5 more RBI than Chipper Jones in 300+ more games.

Not to mention, Baines was largely a DH, while most of those other guys weren't. DH's should be held to a higher offensive standard than say a catcher or shortstop or 2B since those guys are playing demanding defensive positions, no?

 

[StanMarsh51]

So wait...Longevity is a detriment to fame? That's news to me. You're gonna slice it how you like. Good for you. But, in the end, a veterans committee of long-time baseball people that know a sh*t ton more about baseball than you and I see it my way...unless you're trying to make the argument that they put Harold Baines in for publicity and not merit...which makes absolutely no sense considering the dude is one of the most soft-spoken athletes of all-time.

Haters gonna hate. Step on ye of little consequence. Harold is in the hall forevermore.

Why aren't Rusty Staub or Graig Nettles in the HOF, when both played around the same # of games as Baines? Nettles even had more homers and played top level defense. You don't think part of the reason Baines played so long is because he had the luxury of the DH position, which other players didn't have? Is not having to play the field (which most certainly can prolong a career) a major skill?

You keep mentioning that you "see it your way," but in your way, you still can't provide any specific years/runs where Baines was great/elite.

 

[Jiddy]

So the only reason he's HOF worthy is because he's 34th all-time in RBI while being 20th all-time in games played?

Baines played a lot more games to get to 1628 RBI than many, if not most guys in that ranking....I mean, he's got a whopping 33 more RBI than Mike Schmidt for instance - in 400+ more games, or 5 more RBI than Chipper Jones in 300+ more games.

Not to mention, Baines was largely a DH, while most of those other guys weren't. DH's should be held to a higher offensive standard than say a catcher or shortstop or 2B since those guys are playing demanding defensive positions, no?

How surprising you know nothing about Baines as an actual player....

Harold Baines was an amazing outfielder during his 20s. You did NOT run on him. His gun and accuracy were nuts. He had injury issues and couldn't run the same after about 7 or 8 years of baseball but he was such a damn good hitter that he stayed on for well over another decade as strictly a DH. The only reason he was even replaced as a DH in Chicago is because Frank Thomas was terrible in the field and, well, he was one of the top ten hitters of all-time...so that choice was obvious.

Not that you care...You're too busy scanning baseball-reference.com to be right on the internet.

Minutes StanMarsh51 has spent reading "Baines is a bad pick for the HOF" articles and baseball-reference.com that past couple days: Over 9000

Minutes StanMarsh51 has spent watching Harold Baines play, or perhaps a Youtube video clip of his play somewhere out there: 0

 

[idseer]

war has some importance when compared even-handedly. i have a serious problem when they create war figures for players who played before it existed.

example:
......... years .. ab's .... hits ... 2b ... 3b .. hr's ... rbi's ... war
baines .. 22 .. 9908 ... 2866 . 488 . 49 .. 384 .. 1628 .. 40.7
kaline ... 22 ..10116 .. 3007 .. 498 . 75 .. 399 .. 1582 .. 78.3

this is just owar showing kaline has twice the war as baines. does anyone believe he was twice the player? kaline was no doubt better than baines but to suggest baines isn't even in the ballpark based on back-dated war is a fucking fruitcake (you reading this stan?)!

baines was money in the clutch. it's why he has more rbi's with crappier teammates even with 200 fewer ab's!

i'll say it again ... baines compares to kaline. kaline was a first rounder and baines certainly was not. that doesn't mean baines is not in the same ballpark.

 

[Mebert]

Why aren't Rusty Staub or Graig Nettles in the HOF, when both played around the same # of games as Baines? Nettles even had more homers and played top level defense. You don't think part of the reason Baines played so long is because he had the luxury of the DH position, which other players didn't have?

You keep mentioning that you "see it your way," but in your way, you still can't provide any specific years/runs where Baines was great/elite.

Its because he never was an elite player. A very good player for a very long time, but 22 years and he has grey ink of 40? He is a player that was rarely in the top 10 of any hitting stat.

 

[StanMarsh51]

war has some importance when compared even-handedly. i have a serious problem when they create war figures for players who played before it existed.

example:
......... years .. ab's .... hits ... 2b ... 3b .. hr's ... rbi's ... war
baines .. 22 .. 9908 ... 2866 . 488 . 49 .. 384 .. 1628 .. 40.7
kaline ... 22 ..10116 .. 3007 .. 498 . 75 .. 399 .. 1582 .. 78.3

this is just owar showing kaline has twice the war as baines. does anyone believe he was twice the player? kaline was no doubt better than baines but to suggest baines isn't even in the ballpark based on back-dated war is a fucking fruitcake!

baines was money in the clutch. it's why he has more rbi's with crappier teammates even with 200 fewer ab's!

i'll say it again ... baines compares to kaline. kaline was a first rounder and baines certainly was not. that doesn't mean baines is not in the same ballpark.

Kaline was a more dominant offensive player and was a good defensive player. Position is also taken into account with WAR, so Baines is hurt there (ie - if a catcher and a 1B put up the same numbers, the catcher will most likely have the higher WAR). Kaline led the league in various things throughout his career, including OPS, AVG, hits, with numerous other near leads (ie - finished #2 in AVG 3x, finished 2nd in RBI 2x, etc)

And regarding your comment on RBIs in the clutch:
-Baines with RISP - .291 AVG, ..838 OPS
-Kaline with RISP - .311 AVG, .883 OPS

Baines had 200+ more at bats with RISP, so you can't blame his teammates in this case...

 

[Jiddy]

Its because he never was an elite player. A very good player for a very long time, but 22 years and he has grey ink of 40? He is a player that was rarely in the top 10 of any hitting stat.

Have you stepped back and thought: Sixteen people that actually witnessed this man play from the inside picked him...and they know a sh*t ton more than I do. And they don't just do this for any old player that they like.

I mean, I've long given up on ol South Parky...but maybe you might have the light bulb go off....But you probably won't...and for that I am sad. We must crush the infidels that dared tarnish the Hall of Fame with Harold Baines...because....

...because...

...because GODDAMN I MUST BE RIGHT ON THE INTERNET! ELITE AS I SO DEFINE IT OR NO SOUP FOR YOU! THAT'S HOW I ROLL! *dubsteps*

 

[Jiddy]

I mean...Maybe I should just take the opposite route.

Yes. You guys are right. He doesn't belong in the HOF despite the being actually selected into the Hall of Fame (insert space time continuum rant here)...But guess what? He's in. So Ha ha f*ckos.

Yes. I like this approach better. You guys can be right...and I can go back to not giving a f*ck about you're right.

Lemme find Reinsdorf's ol' white flag from back in the day out of the closet....

And now I can sing the na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye song to you clownshoes and your never-ending zeal to piss in Cheerios.

 

[StanMarsh51]

..

Harold Baines was an amazing outfielder during his 20s. You did NOT run on him. His gun and accuracy were nuts. He had injury issues and couldn't run the same after about 7 or 8 years of baseball but he was such a damn good hitter that he stayed on for well over another decade as strictly a DH. The only reason he was even replaced as a DH in Chicago is because Frank Thomas was terrible in the field and, well, he was one of the top ten hitters of all-time...so that choice was obvious.

Not really....defensive metrics rate him pretty mediocre up until he became a DH.

Baines average (per season) FRAA up until 1987 (when he became a DH) was just +1, meaning his defense was only 1 run better than average. That's basically mediocre.

 

[Jiddy]

Now that that's over and done with...This one's for you Harold. Thanks for being the guy that I would always pretend to be back in my little league days:

 

[Mebert]

Have you stepped back and thought: Sixteen people that actually witnessed this man play from the inside picked him...and they know a sh*t ton more than I do. And they don't just do this for any old player that they like.

I mean, I've long given up on ol South Parky...but maybe you might have the light bulb go off....But you probably won't...and for that I am sad. We must crush the infidels that dared tarnish the Hall of Fame with Harold Baines...because....

...because...

...because GODDAMN I MUST BE RIGHT ON THE INTERNET! ELITE AS I SO DEFINE IT OR NO SOUP FOR YOU! THAT'S HOW I ROLL! *dubsteps*

I will tell you what I see from this thread. A lot of people that talk actual stats and baseball, then you throw a tantrum and start tossing insults because your argument has no solid ground.

Nobody has argued that Baines was not very good, that is evident. The argument is on if he is Hall worthy. That is an easy call, he is statistically one of the weakest people ever to get in. By any metric he is a weak case.

At the end of the day he is in and no one can take it from him.

 

[Jiddy]

Not really....defensive metrics rate him pretty mediocre up until he became a DH.

Baines average (per season) FRAA up until 1987 (when he became a DH) was just +1, meaning his defense was only 1 run better than average. That's basically mediocre.

 

[DJ]

A great hitter.....

 

[Mebert]

A great hitter.....

A good hitter for a very long time.

 

[Jiddy]

I will tell you what I see from this thread. A lot of people that talk actual stats and baseball, then you throw a tantrum and start tossing insults because your argument has no solid ground.

Nobody has argued that Baines was not very good, that is evident. The argument is on if he is Hall worthy. That is an easy call, he is statistically one of the weakest people ever to get in. By any metric he is a weak case.

At the end of the day he is in and no one can take it from him.

Baines is in the hall of fame.

^^^fact

"Is Baines hall of fame worthy?"

^^^Question you ask BEFORE said fact is established. After is just teeth gnashing...so yeah, you get what's coming.

It's like that f*cking guy that is like "Oh yeah, that was the worst Super Bowl team ever cuz (insert dumbass rant here)"..and better yet, makes sure to make his oh-so-convincing argument while surrounded by fans of the team.

Mother f*cker...They won the Super Bowl. (He's in the hall of fame) It's over. Are you in denial or something?