Harold Baines! ... H.O.F.!

[Jiddy]

I can't believe, of all things, I'm sitting here reading about people dogging Harold Baines. Goddamn people will argue anything to be right on the internet. I commend you for going as long as you have idseer. This is sheer lunacy. My eyes are bleeding with some a-hole literally asking if Magglio Ordonez or Robin Ventura should be put in the hall because Baines has been put in now. I loved Maggz (OOOO WEEE OOOO MAAAAAGGGGLIOOOOO...had to do it) and Robin. But they weren't nearly as important nor as beloved to the White Sox franchise as Harold. What a f*cking ridiculous argument...I blame myself for clicking on this thread again and exposing myself to it, really, cuz the way it was going you could see some dumbassery brewing.

Dogging Harold f*cking Baines....Unf*ckingbelievable.

 

[StanMarsh51]

the baseball people who selected him did so for a reason (he didn't have 12 good buddies on that list).

Didn't he play for Tony LaRussa, Pat Gillick and Jerry Reinsdorf, and was teammates with Roberto Alomar (4 guys on the committee)?

 

[StanMarsh51]

I can't believe, of all things, I'm sitting here reading about people dogging Harold Baines. Goddamn people will argue anything to be right on the internet. I commend you for going as long as you have idseer. This is sheer lunacy. My eyes are bleeding with some a-hole literally asking if Magglio Ordonez or Robin Ventura should be put in the hall because Baines has been put in now. I loved Maggz (OOOO WEEE OOOO MAAAAAGGGGLIOOOOO...had to do it) and Robin. But they weren't nearly as important nor as beloved to the White Sox franchise as Harold. What a f*cking ridiculous argument...I blame myself for clicking on this thread again and exposing myself to it, really, cuz the way it was going you could see some dumbassery brewing.

Dogging Harold f*cking Baines....Unf*ckingbelievable.

Considering Ventura is one of the better defensive 3B of all time and was a solid hitter, you can make the case that he had a better career than Baines.

If you look at WAR (which takes offense and defense into account), Ventura's career WAR is 57 and Baines is at 38.

And like your buddy, can you even point out how many great seasons Baines had?

 

[Mebert]

I can't believe, of all things, I'm sitting here reading about people dogging Harold Baines. Goddamn people will argue anything to be right on the internet. I commend you for going as long as you have idseer. This is sheer lunacy. My eyes are bleeding with some a-hole literally asking if Magglio Ordonez or Robin Ventura should be put in the hall because Baines has been put in now. I loved Maggz (OOOO WEEE OOOO MAAAAAGGGGLIOOOOO...had to do it) and Robin. But they weren't nearly as important nor as beloved to the White Sox franchise as Harold. What a f*cking ridiculous argument...I blame myself for clicking on this thread again and exposing myself to it, really, cuz the way it was going you could see some dumbassery brewing.

Dogging Harold f*cking Baines....Unf*ckingbelievable.

I think if this thread was about how Baines was a good player we would have no argument, everyone would agree. Is Baines Hall of Fame worthy is a much different argument though. He is not, he got in because a limited committee was loaded with his teammates, managers, and the GM that drafted him that lobbied to squeeze him in under the bare minimum required.

Even with a stacked deck in his favor he squeaked in, and it was a bad call? Is he the worst player in the Hall? nope, he is 5th worst....maybe 6th.

 

[idseer]

Didn't he play for Tony LaRussa, Pat Gillick and Jerry Reinsdorf, and was teammates with Roberto Alomar (4 guys on the committee)?

you question is really stupid.. 1st, 4 is nor 12. 2nd. how many committee members played with or knew all of the candidates?
here's an idea ... congratulate baines on being selected!

 

[StanMarsh51]

you question is really stupid.. 1st, 4 is nor 12. 2nd. how many committee members played with or knew all of the candidates?
here's an idea ... congratulate baines on being selected!

When did I say he was potentially friendly with all 12? Find me that post...

Here's my exact quote:
.it's the Today's Era Committe, a small panel of just 16, some of whom are probably friends/acquaintances with Baines


So some = all? Reading is key, buddy....

 

[idseer]

When did I say he was potentially friendly with all 12? Find me that post...

Here's my exact quote:
.it's the Today's Era Committe, a small panel of just 16, some of whom are probably friends/acquaintances with Baines


So some = all? Reading is key, buddy....

yes, reading IS key. trying looking beYOND your nose. where did i indicate you said he was friendly with all 12? you see, stupid, i was making the point that MORE than 4 selected him. MORE than the 4 you suggested.

don't you get tired of looking dumb?

 

[StanMarsh51]

yes, reading IS key. trying looking beYOND your nose. where did i indicate you said he was friendly with all 12? you see, stupid, i was making the point that MORE than 4 selected him. MORE than the 4 you suggested.

don't you get tired of looking dumb?

Presuming those 4 voted for him, of the guys he didn't play with/for, he received less than 75% of the votes.

In other words, it's likely his buddies helped him out, no?


A guy who never had a great run is deserving of the hall in your opinion because "he meant a lot to the ChiSox".... That's sound logic...

 

[idseer]

Presuming those 4 voted for him, of the guys he didn't play with/for, he received less than 75% of the votes.

In other words, it's likely his buddies helped him out, no?


A guy who never had a great run is deserving of the hall in your opinion because "he meant a lot to the ChiSox".... That's sound logic...

Presuming those 4 voted for him, of the guys he didn't play with/for, he received less than 75% of the votes.
and you don't know that ... do you? and even if those four players who 'associated with him' did vote for him why assume they did it only because they knew him. maybe they'd have voted for him even had they not known him. you don't know! you don't know a fucking THING about it!
doesn't your ass get a little sore pulling so much out of it?

A guy who never had a great run is deserving of the hall in your opinion because "he meant a lot to the ChiSox".... That's sound logic...
more presumption on your part? you presume i think he belongs for just that reason?
every player in the hall meant a lot to their respective clubs, did they not? did you just ignore the numbers that have been quoted here? or doesn't your memory reach that far back?

stan, i think i speak for everyone here when i say ... you one of the dumbest people to ever visit this page. you really do need to stfu and go away.

 

[StanMarsh51]

A guy who never had a great run is deserving of the hall in your opinion because "he meant a lot to the ChiSox".... That's sound logic...
more presumption on your part? you presume i think he belongs for just that reason?
every player in the hall meant a lot to their respective clubs, did they not? did you just ignore the numbers that have been quoted here? or doesn't your memory reach that far back?

Just about every guy (other than a select few bad choices) in the hall had a great run too. Did Baines? Pedro, Ruth, Frank Thomas, Roberto Alomar, Bagwell, Piazza, Griffey, Koufax, Mantle and on and on had great years/runs in the majors.



Bernie Williams for example meant more to the Yankees than Baines meant to the ChiSox (Bernie was the best hitter on multiple championship teams and won a batting title...Baines can't top that), but I don't see Bernie anywhere near the HOF....

 

[richig07]

al kaline was a shoo in for the hall (selected in his first year of eligibility). is harold really be all that far behind?

baines and kaline both played 22 years. kaline had 208 more ab's than baines
harold had 384 home runs, al kaline had 399 (kaline had .7 more home runs per year)
harold had 2866 hits, kaline had 3007 (kaline had 6 more hits per year)
harold had 1628 rbi's. kaline had 1582
harold batted .289, kaline .297

baines had more rbi's and a better batting average than mike schmidt, harmon killebrew, andre dawson, willie mccovey, willie stargell, billy williams, ralph kiner (just among outfielders)

out of 260 h.o.f. players baines is 24th in rbi's, 114 in average, 34th in home runs, 93rd in ops.

maybe people forget how good harold really was?

I love Baines, but when you contextualize those numbers for their respective eras? Baines pales in comparison.

Kaline, for instance was a 92 WAR player to Baines at 38. WRC+... etc... all of these other numbers which put their careers into better context, compared to their counterparts? Baines looks pretty damn far behind. Those numbers were worth more in Kaline's era than they were for Baines.

 

[StanMarsh51]

out of 260 h.o.f. players baines is 24th in rbi's, 114 in average, 34th in home runs, 93rd in ops.

maybe people forget how good harold really was?

Are you including pitchers and ***** League players in that 260 count?

So Baines had more homers and a better OPS than Pedro Martinez and Greg Maddux and Tom Seaver. He also had better MLB numbers than Josh Gibson, since Gibson never played an MLB game..that's a great argument, and I'm sold.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I love Baines, but when you contextualize those numbers for their respective eras? Baines pales in comparison.

Kaline, for instance was a 92 WAR player to Baines at 38. WRC+... etc... all of these other numbers which put their careers into better context, compared to their counterparts? Baines looks pretty damn far behind. Those numbers were worth more in Kaline's era than they were for Baines.

Not to mention, Kaline was considered a good defensive player (which is included in his WAR). Baines on the other hand provided no value defensively career-wise.

 

[idseer]

Just about every guy (other than a select few bad choices) in the hall had a great run too. Did Baines? Pedro, Ruth, Frank Thomas, Roberto Alomar, Bagwell, Piazza, Griffey, Koufax, Mantle and on and on had great years/runs in the majors.



Bernie Williams for example meant more to the Yankees than Baines meant to the ChiSox (Bernie was the best hitter on multiple championship teams and won a batting title...Baines can't top that), but I don't see Bernie anywhere near the HOF....

and you never will. hof is NOT based on 'great runs. it's based on careers mostly. bernie's career doesn't match baines'.

 

[StanMarsh51]

bernie's career doesn't match baines'.

Sure it does, when you factor in what Bernie did in the playoffs (22 HR, .850 OPS, ALCS MVP) and he played a demanding/premium defensive position.

Looking at career WAR (which takes offense and defense into account), Bernie's at 50 and Baines at 38.

 

[idseer]

I love Baines, but when you contextualize those numbers for their respective eras? Baines pales in comparison.

Kaline, for instance was a 92 WAR player to Baines at 38. WRC+... etc... all of these other numbers which put their careers into better context, compared to their counterparts? Baines looks pretty damn far behind. Those numbers were worth more in Kaline's era than they were for Baines.

war never did figure in to hall selection. there WAS no war in kaline's day, remember?
apparently you agree then with this rabble that baines is the worst hall choice in history?
i discovered arguing with you is a go no where waste of time. i'll just let you tear harold apart too because you feel he's unworthy.

 

[idseer]

Sure it does, when you factor in what Bernie did in the playoffs (22 HR, .850 OPS, ALCS MVP) and he played a demanding/premium defensive position.

Looking at career WAR (which takes offense and defense into account), Bernie's at 50 and Baines at 38.

ahh when you factor in what you want to factor in? the hall isn't about playoffs ... never was. it's about careers. something that can't get thru your thick skull.

 

[StanMarsh51]

ahh when you factor in what you want to factor in? the hall isn't about playoffs ... never was. it's about careers. something that can't get thru your thick skull.

How does Bernie have a career OPS nearly 40 points higher while playing a demanding defensive position?

Isn't it easier to be a DH than a centerfielder? Baines didn't have to go through the wear and tear of being in the field (let alone a position like CF), and he still has a much lower OPS.

 

[idseer]

Are you including pitchers and ***** League players in that 260 count?

So Baines had more homers and a better OPS than Pedro Martinez and Greg Maddux and Tom Seaver. He also had better MLB numbers than Josh Gibson, since Gibson never played an MLB game..that's a great argument, and I'm sold.

remove the pitchers then. you're a waste of time. i've been here long enough. there are actually intelligent people to talk to. bye bye dick ... i mean stan.

 

[Jiddy]

La Russa: Baines' HOF detractors are weak

Hall of Fame manager Tony La Russa calls the arguments against the selection of Harold Baines to the Hall of Fame as "weak-a-- superficial bulls---."


At one point Russo brought up Al Oliver, who had similar career statistics to Baines (and a higher career WAR, 43.7 to 38.7).

"Al Oliver is not better than he is, no disrespect to Al Oliver," La Russa responded. "I used to watch you because I thought you knew the game. I'm going to start calling you clueless."