Great draft pick Seattle

[Uhsplit]

When I mentioned Harvin he came with baggage. Everyone knew it. Even though Hawk fans tried to downplay his "disappointment" the truth finally came out. Not all was roses in the Emerald city just like the early reports were saying.

We did ok.

 

[Uhsplit]

It's not just two players. It's two players this week Irvin and Bennett. Lynch was an issue. RW though we aren't hearing anything is an issue. Bobby Wagoner will be next if there isn't money that he deserves.

Where is that stirring the pot emoticon?

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Again dude...domestic violence is the issue here and you bringing up Jimmy Smith is completely irrelevant. I'm not talking about Jameis Winston or Marcus Peters or Shane Ray or Randy Gregory.

Talk about a point sailing over someone's head...

I agree he should have brought up Ray Rice

 

[SonnyCID]

The Seahawks were only in the SB two years ago because of 'the catch'. They were only in last years because of several even more incredible plays against GB. And Flacco's team lost because of whatever plays they didn't make.

Those extra upgrades here or there are THE difference. If Wilson wasn't making less than 1m/yr they wouldn't have been able to bring in Bennett, Avril, or a few of the other big ones. Any one of those makes the difference and Seattle is close (like Ravens) but no cigar.

Fact.

Do you really think that the difference in all of those wins or losses is all about how your cap is allocated? Is that the reason why the Seahawks made a bunch of plays, and why the Packers couldn't make any plays late in the NFCCG? If so, I disagree.

 

[Money]

I agree he should have brought up Ray Rice

What DV incident did Rice have before he was drafted? Rice actually had zero baggage. The dude was an incredibly liked player up until the 2013 season (when signs of him being a dbag started to surface). Every team is going to have incidents. That's not what this thread is about. It's also not about trashing Seattle as a team. I have nothing against Seattle (although I don't like Carroll for what he did to USC). I actually like many of their players. This is about one move that I don't like and find very hypocritical (see Schneider's comments in 2012). I'm very critical of how Bisciotti handled the Rice situation (but generally like Bisciotti and love the organization). Just because I love the organization doesn't mean I can't be critical of them. I would think the same goes for Seattle fans.

For those accusing me of trolling the Seahawks...you need to grow up. I haven't said one bad thing about the organization or anyone in it. I just have a problem with them drafting this dude. Seattle fans can hide behind the fact that it was plea bargained down if that makes them feel better. In my opinion...that's delusional and a cop out. You might as well come out and say you support Greg Hardy.

 

[WizardHawk]

With a cap space left of $11 million and needing a few million for rookies is it possible to pay Wilson $16 mil?

Sure, depends on the structure of the signing bonus. Since that part is spread out over 5 years only 1/5 counts against this years cap and since you are giving them a huge chunk of up front money it's not that uncommon for the base in that year to be quite low.

When you talk about player contracts it's average per year over the life of the contract that is most used. The actual cap hit year to year can be quite different. I said 16-18m/yr and even that may not reach the 11% of cap 3 or 4 years down the road if the cap keeps growing every year at it's current pace. 20m/yr would require the cap to hit 180m to stay around that 11% of cap mark. So how bad of an impact his contract will have is as much or more dependent on the growth of the cap as the raw per year average.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Back to the thread topic here...I think this article explains a bit more about the circumstances surrounding the Clark incident.

There seems to be legitimate evidence that while the witness report was in essence factually correct, what was happening behind the closed door was perhaps a different scenario then some are making it out to be. Since it's only implied not stated what that case may be, we may never know, but I agree that there are many factors in the dynamic of relationships that never come to light in public.

The prosecutor seems pretty sure that Clark does not profile as a batterer. She will not however go as far as to state that Clark never had a physical altercation with Hurt (ex GF).

In Clarks favor is that he remains friendly with this ex apparently and her mother who has said nothing negative about him.

This still begs the question of why this 'thorough investigation' never bothered to talk to the prosecutor either.

 

[WizardHawk]

Do you really think that the difference in all of those wins or losses is all about how your cap is allocated? Is that the reason why the Seahawks made a bunch of plays, and why the Packers couldn't make any plays late in the NFCCG? If so, I disagree.

Would the Seahawks have likely won the SB last year if they had a slightly better backup CB than what Simon was? One player.

With Wilson's contract you are talking about at least 4m/yr people are debating over. If you don't think you can improve your team over what you have now with that much money I'd say we have very different views on how the salary structure of the NFL works and that's fine.

Yes, I'm saying if Wilson was making 16m/yr two seasons ago they don't reach the SB. I'm at least 98% dead sure of that. They had 15m more to spend on that defensive depth they had than any of the teams they were racing against. It most certainly did have an impact.

 

[WizardHawk]

Back to the thread topic here...I think this article explains a bit more about the circumstances surrounding the Clark incident.

There seems to be legitimate evidence that while the witness report was in essence factually correct, what was happening behind the closed door was perhaps a different scenario then some are making it out to be. Since it's only implied not stated what that case may be, we may never know, but I agree that there are many factors in the dynamic of relationships that never come to light in public.

The prosecutor seems pretty sure that Clark does not profile as a batterer. She will not however go as far as to state that Clark never had a physical altercation with Hurt (ex GF).

In Clarks favor is that he remains friendly with this ex apparently and her mother who has said nothing negative about him.

This still begs the question of why this 'thorough investigation' never bothered to talk to the prosecutor either.

This is why I'm holding my judgement until all of the facts come out and we have had a chance to hear from the player himself.

The prosecutor said after she interviewed both people and reviewed the case that the facts of what happened that night are not what they first appeared to be. She wouldn't go into detail about what the woman told her, but it was clear from what little comments she could give out that her views on this case changed dramatically after she did talk to the so-called victim.

All the moral outrage, even by a LOT of our own fans locally, just based on a police report and what so-called witness accounts (of people who were not actually in that room) is insane. We don't strip away people's careers on that little evidence. The prosecutor herself, who said she went into this case thinking she was going to be prosecuting someone for this incident, read all of the evidence and spoke to all of the people and came to the conclusion that the witnesses did hear what they heard and saw what they saw, but did not have all of the facts. The facts do not support that Clark beat that woman up.

 

[cdumler7]

Would the Seahawks have likely won the SB last year if they had a slightly better backup CB than what Simon was? One player.

With Wilson's contract you are talking about at least 4m/yr people are debating over. If you don't think you can improve your team over what you have now with that much money I'd say we have very different views on how the salary structure of the NFL works and that's fine.

Yes, I'm saying if Wilson was making 16m/yr two seasons ago they don't reach the SB. I'm at least 98% dead sure of that. They had 15m more to spend on that defensive depth they had than any of the teams they were racing against. It most certainly did have an impact.

Not going to take the time to find the article but they showed the percentage of what the QB was making on the Super Bowl winning team and if they are making more than say 11% of the salary cap then the chances of winning the Super Bowl go way down. Now yes those teams with top quarterbacks usually make the playoffs but winning the Super Bowl requires a full team not just one player. Like you said depth makes a huge difference in the NFL. Every team has injuries so having quality back ups actually becomes all that much more important.

 

[SonnyCID]

Would the Seahawks have likely won the SB last year if they had a slightly better backup CB than what Simon was? One player.

I agree. IMO, one of those players that would have given Seattle a better shot was on the roster (Burley) because he's a better slot corner. But he wasn't active that day, probably because the Hawks wanted an outside guy as insurance for Sherman.

 

[WizardHawk]

Not going to take the time to find the article but they showed the percentage of what the QB was making on the Super Bowl winning team and if they are making more than say 11% of the salary cap then the chances of winning the Super Bowl go way down. Now yes those teams with top quarterbacks usually make the playoffs but winning the Super Bowl requires a full team not just one player. Like you said depth makes a huge difference in the NFL. Every team has injuries so having quality back ups actually becomes all that much more important.

One of our local radio people said no QB in the history of the league has had more than 11% of cap salary and their team won the SB. I believe he said Brady is/was right at 11% and there have been a couple more that were in that area.

I don't know why some of my fellow hawk fans fight this so hard. It's not an insult to say they are where they are because of their ability to take advantage of not paying their QB top dollar over the last 3 years. Yes, they still had to have the right mix of people around him and more importantly a killer defense, but having more than 10m over everyone else you are fighting against to build that for sure gave them an edge. It's a pure fact. When you can boil down the season to a play in not one, but several games how can you not see that just one player different in those games would have prevented that?

Football really is a game of inches and how you work your cap goes a long way to deciding how many of those inches will go your way over a season vs your competitors.

 

[Money]

The facts do not support that Clark beat that woman up.

Did you not see the pictures of her face or do you find his statement "she fell" to be overly compelling?

 

[Caliskinsfan]

One of our local radio people said no QB in the history of the league has had more than 11% of cap salary and their team won the SB. I believe he said Brady is/was right at 11% and there have been a couple more that were in that area.

I don't know why some of my fellow hawk fans fight this so hard. It's not an insult to say they are where they are because of their ability to take advantage of not paying their QB top dollar over the last 3 years. Yes, they still had to have the right mix of people around him and more importantly a killer defense, but having more than 10m over everyone else you are fighting against to build that for sure gave them an edge. It's a pure fact. When you can boil down the season to a play in not one, but several games how can you not see that just one player different in those games would have prevented that?

Football really is a game of inches and how you work your cap goes a long way to deciding how many of those inches will go your way over a season vs your competitors.

Football remains a team sport regardless of how much some people would like to place wins solely on QB play. Which I might add would not be worth shit if it wasn't augmented by other players making it possible for him to succeed.

 

[SonnyCID]

One of our local radio people said no QB in the history of the league has had more than 11% of cap salary and their team won the SB. I believe he said Brady is/was right at 11% and there have been a couple more that were in that area.

I don't know why some of my fellow hawk fans fight this so hard. It's not an insult to say they are where they are because of their ability to take advantage of not paying their QB top dollar over the last 3 years. Yes, they still had to have the right mix of people around him and more importantly a killer defense, but having more than 10m over everyone else you are fighting against to build that for sure gave them an edge. It's a pure fact. When you can boil down the season to a play in not one, but several games how can you not see that just one player different in those games would have prevented that?

Football really is a game of inches and how you work your cap goes a long way to deciding how many of those inches will go your way over a season vs your competitors.

Wiz, I get what you're saying. I'm not denying that it gets tougher. But it's damn near impossible to win without the QB. Question, are you suggesting that the Hawks should give him a contract that would keep his cap hit at or under 11% year in year out?

 

[gowazzu02]

This threads still going goody!!!

The new question that came from this all. WHAT should teams do in back ground checks.... Seattles being blasted for not talking to the alleged victim..... Are we at a point where people so distrust the police that seattle talking with and reading the police report of the incedent isn't good enough? Do you really expect them to call up alleged victims, and do you really expect alleged victims to be honest? If anyone has an axe to grind it would be a jilted lover, potentially who was assaulted. Im just saying, its the polices/prosecutors job to figure all that out.....

 

[Money]

This threads still going goody!!!

The new question that came from this all. WHAT should teams do in back ground checks.... Seattles being blasted for not talking to the alleged victim..... Are we at a point where people so distrust the police that seattle talking with and reading the police report of the incedent isn't good enough? Do you really expect them to call up alleged victims, and do you really expect alleged victims to be honest? If anyone has an axe to grind it would be a jilted lover, potentially who was assaulted. Im just saying, its the polices/prosecutors job to figure all that out.....

There are no set guidelines to follow. It's up to each and every team. Jerry Jones doesn't give a rat's ass. He looks at it as opportunities to grab players he wouldn't normally be able to get. Most teams had Clark completely off their boards. Seattle grabbed him with their first pick. It is what it is. John Schneider just needs to own it though. He looks pretty darn hypocritical right now.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I don't know why some of my fellow hawk fans fight this so hard. It's not an insult to say they are where they are because of their ability to take advantage of not paying their QB top dollar over the last 3 years.

History tells you that just getting to the SB let alone winning it takes a balanced team. Let's go back 15 years. QBs that played in the SB not making 11% (I did not verify each one and many where pre their new contracts that would take them over the 11%). Brad Johnson, Chris Collins, Chandler, Dilfer, Hasselback, Delhome, Wilson, Kap (pre contract), Flacco (pre contract0, Grossman...

Football is a team sport. Paying top $ to too many players on a team regardless of position will hurt your chances of making it to the SB. It takes quality depth. Naturally there is some luck and some exceptions but they are the exception not the norm.

 

[cdumler7]

This threads still going goody!!!

The new question that came from this all. WHAT should teams do in back ground checks.... Seattles being blasted for not talking to the alleged victim..... Are we at a point where people so distrust the police that seattle talking with and reading the police report of the incedent isn't good enough? Do you really expect them to call up alleged victims, and do you really expect alleged victims to be honest? If anyone has an axe to grind it would be a jilted lover, potentially who was assaulted. Im just saying, its the polices/prosecutors job to figure all that out.....

The NFL is really wanting to crack down on player behavior off the field and have even talked about penalizing teams for hiring players that go and give the NFL a bad name so yes it is in the best interest for a team to do everything possible when investing into a guy with already a spotty background. The Seahawks took a chance. Just have to wait and see what happens. If they didn't do everything possible though to find out about this kid then they can only blame themselves for that. Every team though has players with a very spotty past. To get after the Seahawks for this one is kind of ridiculous. I honestly could go through every roster and say "how in the world could this team have this kid?" Heck the Broncos just drafted a kid who got a citation the week of the draft for having pot in his vehicle. They have another that they paid good money for that about a month later was at a strip club and threw a mug at a waitress. As fans we cheer for the player not the person. I don't like that players on my team did those things and I'm guessing somebody else will do something this off season that will look bad on both the player and the team. IT doesn't mean I will stop cheering for my team though. If I wanted to cheer for a bunch of boy scouts then I would go down to our local Scout house. It just is the state of the game. Can't expect all of these players to stay perfectly out of trouble.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

This threads still going goody!!!

The new question that came from this all. WHAT should teams do in back ground checks.... Seattles being blasted for not talking to the alleged victim..... Are we at a point where people so distrust the police that seattle talking with and reading the police report of the incedent isn't good enough? Do you really expect them to call up alleged victims, and do you really expect alleged victims to be honest? If anyone has an axe to grind it would be a jilted lover, potentially who was assaulted. Im just saying, its the polices/prosecutors job to figure all that out.....

The question I think that is top in most fans minds at this point is the disconnect between Schneider's 'thorough' investigation comment and what subjectively might appear to be an incomplete investigation.

It's up to the individual to believe him or not.