Grading the offseason to date

[idseer]

You can hang with idseer, he can use the company.

i know you're anxious to hear from me and my grade. !
it's a C!

let me lay out my position.
in an earlier post in a different thread:

“”LSD:
The question for us Sox diehards is which of the higher ranked FAs will management pursue. It has been pretty much agreed by all that our greatest needs are as follows:
SP
DH
OF
BP””

PITCHING - which LSD listed first (I have to presume these are in order of importance), the sox went (as usual) bargain hunting. We picked up an aging (32), on the downslide pitcher who was very good 5 years ago. Middle rotation kind of guy now. I won’t even mention gio, as anyone who thinks he’s better than anyone else we have is on drugs.
And THAT’S IT!

DH - Encarnacion (37) is a pretty good DH pickup. And 1 year, $12M is a good price.

OF - Didn’t do a thing for the outfield, contrary to what some of you pretend is a good pickup in mazara. Fact is, we gave up a decent unproven prospect for a prospect that didn’t pan out in 4 years at texas.

BP - Didn’t do a thing for the bullpen.

Oh yeah … their first big signing for the year wasn’t at any of these positions. It was a catcher, known for his weak defense and in one writer’s opinion:
“”He’s earned a long-term deal this winter, but at age 31, it’s still pretty risky to give him one; catchers like Grandal have tended to age poorly. A one-year, $20 million contract or a three-year deal in the $50 million range could be in play here.””
So naturally the sox gave him 4 years and $73 million. … (and LSD went crazy happy!)

It’s funny to see all the sox fans with their perennial high hopes for the coming year all hoping everyone has a career year to get them in the hunt. Make your jokes about me if you want but who is really being realistic here?

I predict .500ish.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

It's ok to be in a group of one, id.

 

[idseer]

It's ok to be in a group of one, id.

really? your idea of this website is 'agree with me or i dismiss you with a vague insult'?
i used to enjoy your posts ... mostly. now, you're just another jerk on the internet.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

really? your idea of this website is 'agree with me or i dismiss you with a vague insult'?
i used to enjoy your posts ... mostly. now, you're just another jerk on the internet.

Buddy, chill already. You get way too amped up. You come across like a heart attack waiting to happen. Relax and enjoy the offseason.

 

[idseer]

go chill yourself "buddy". i come here to talk baseball, not play stupid games with you. why not back up your visions of B+ grades and 90 wins with some solid thoughts instead of trying to insult someone who thinks you're living in a dream world?

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

go chill yourself "buddy". i come here to talk baseball, not play stupid games with you. why not back up your visions of B+ grades and 90 wins with some solid thoughts instead of trying to insult someone who thinks you're living in a dream world?

Man, you are going off the deep end fast.

 

[Jiddy]

You can hang with idseer, he can use the company.

In the hierarchy of irrational takes, msgkings is by far and away the leader. Do I think our offseason grade is a C? Not really...but I wouldn't put it higher than a B...and in a 20/20 retrospect lookback I could EASILY see it downgrading to a C about 5 months from now. Nothing we signed is some kind of guarantee or anything that special. It is exactly what was and should have been expected...certainly no more...and frankly, any less would have been an instant downgrade to a D/F offseason grade.

We're a 68 win team that overperformed last year going into this 2020 season. Predicting .500ish is about right. A lot of that prediction will not just fall on our improvement, but the fact that our division has some significantly sh*tty teams ...and the good teams in our division have question marks about them no doubt...but one of them set a goddamn record for home runs in a season ALL TIME...and the other has hit 90+ 4 seasons in a row. So yeah...I guess I will hang with idseer on this one until the product on the field actually produces for the first time in a decade.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Do I think our offseason grade is a C? Not really...but I wouldn't put it higher than a B...and in a 20/20 retrospect lookback I could EASILY see it downgrading to a C about 5 months from now.

Jid, we all get to apply 20/20 hindsight. Of course if these offseason transactions don't produce the results in the way we're hoping/expecting, the grade will get lowered. It's why they call it 20/20 hindsight. But when there hasn't been a pitched yet thrown or a bat yet swung, you can only go by what has taken place - what did our roster look like at season's end and what does it look like now on paper. That's all we have to go on and base our evaluations accordingly. If it was just me, mskings, or other Sox fans who believe the Sox look like they've really improved and possibly playoff bound, I could understand the criticisms of perhaps being a little too rah rah. But just about every analyst and pundit on the baseball planet have stated that the Sox have definitely improved themselves. In fact.........

We're a 68 win team that overperformed last year going into this 2020 season. Predicting .500ish is about right.

For a couple of naysayers, you and especially id sure appear to be self-contradicting. He gives our offseason a grade of C, and you kinda vacillate with a reluctant B at best. I think in your heart of hearts you really wanted to go with a C+. And yet a predicted .500 record would result in 9 more wins than this past season and 13 more than what you said was really a 68 win team who overachieved. Is this your definition of average? Because to me and I'm sure what most people would agree, is that a C grade means we shouldn't expect ANY improvement. It's average, so we should expect the status quo. In another words another 72ish win ballclub. You see? I think you guys are more positive than perhaps you realize. It's ok, there's no harm in believing that after a decade of complete frustration, the arrow is finally pointing up.

So yeah...I guess I will hang with idseer on this one until the product on the field actually produces for the first time in a decade.

Good for you, no one should be alone, especially during the holidays.

 

[idseer]

For a couple of naysayers, you and especially id sure appear to be self-contradicting. He gives our offseason a grade of C, and you kinda vacillate with a reluctant B at best. I think in your heart of hearts you really wanted to go with a C+. And yet a predicted .500 record would result in 9 more wins than this past season and 13 more than what you said was really a 68 win team who overachieved. Is this your definition of average?

except you ignore one factor. the rest of the division is getting weaker. and i said .500 ISH!
all you do is talk about expected records and not one reason why. keuchel won 8 games last year for a 97 win atlanta team . why would you expect him to do better with the sox? and grandal.... in the ws against the bosox he got a total of 5 ab's. why? cause he was so bad! last year (in his contract year) he did an acceptable job. explain why he will be a help to this team. tell me how gio will help? and are you totally confident abreu, moncada, anderson and jimenez will all continue just like they left off? or that robert will be an instant success .... AND madrigal? all that HAS to go right AND they need 2 or 3 pitchers behind giolito to have good years. you really think this team is that much better? and remember .... you suggested 90 wins was possible.
i just want some reasons .... not feelings". WHY do they deserve a B+?

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

i just want some reasons .... not feelings". WHY do they deserve a B+?

The Sox had a number of objectives they were to pursue this offseason to help turn them into a playoff contending team, such as:

1. Wanted a SP, preferably two. Check. They missed on Wheeler, but not without making a killer offer, then signed Keuchel and Gonzalez. Not sure who else they realistically had a shot at signing. Under the circumstances, they got who they were able to get.

2. Wanted a C. Check. They signed the #1 rated FA catcher out there. Granted at a hefty price, but this position carries a premium price tag. A lowball framing specialist, he's considered the ideal match for the two lowball pitchers we just signed. And he brings a lefty bat with him to boot (actually, he's a switch hitter, but he's much stronger from the left side).

3. Wanted a RF. Check. Now here's where we may agree, at least to a point. I was not thrilled with this move, having traded our #6 prospect for a young, yet experienced and unproven OFer. I'm hoping the scouts see something in him that just about no one else sees, so I'm willing to withhold judgment. But I'm still nonplussed with this one.

4. Wanted a DH. Check. Encarnacion brings experience, dependability, and a fairly significant HR swing with his resume.

5. Wanted a RP. TBD. If we started the season without having acquired one, then I would label this as a fail and my subsequent final grade will likely be affected. But we're not even in the New Year yet, there's plenty of offseason left. I'm confident that someone of talent will be inked.

So right or wrong, there's my B+ grade, which of course at this point is subject to change as deemed necessary.

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Potential starting lineup after both Robert and Madrigal have been called up:

Tim Anderson, SS
Yoan Moncada, 3B
Jose Abreu, 1B
Edwin Encarnacion, DH
Eloy Jimenez, LF
Yasmani Grandal, C
Luis Robert, CF
Nomar Mazara, RF
Nick Madrigal, 2B

Not a bad lineup at all.

I can’t wait to see Madrigal’s quality ABs.

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Here are the more significant moves/signings so far in this offseason:

Signed free agent SP Dallas Keuchel
Signed free agent SP Gio Gonzalez
Signed RP Tayron Guerrero (off Miami waivers)
Traded for RF Nomar Mazara (from Texas for #6 prospect OF Steele Walker)
Signed free agent C Yasmani Grandal
Released '19 starting 2b Yolmer Sanchez

Overall grade: B

Altho the Sox missed out on their #1 offseason target, Zack Wheeler, they recuperated fairly well with the signings of Keuchel and Gonzalez, who bring not only veteran experience, but some needed L/H balance to the rotation to boot. I have Guerrero in this batch even tho it's easy to say his signing wasn't really significant. He's more of a boom or bust project. The man is one of the hardest throwing pitchers in baseball, with a FB that more often than not tops 100mp. The problem is he often can't hit the side of a barn. If Coach Cooper can perform some magic and rein in his control, this could turn out to be one of those sneaky-good signings. Not happy with the trade for Mazara, especially for our #6 prospect, but he's young and has that 'potential' tag pasted all over him, so we'll just have to wait and see. Yes, Grandal was not a cheap signing by any stretch of the imagination, but he plays at a premium position and it commands higher than average $$. Regardless, he's an upgrade to James McCann and he really fortifies the battery. I'll miss Yolmer's defense and team spirit, but Danny Mendick can capably hold down the fort until Madrigal arrives.

The reason for not giving an 'A' grade at this point is even tho our roster is without question better than it was at the end '19, I still think we needed a better quality RF and/or DH upgrade. And I wouldn't mind obtaining a veteran RP to bolster our BP. There is still a lot of offseason left, so the grade can still be changed down the road.

Getting a solid reliever gets me to A- for Hahn this winter. I’m still a skeptic of the Mazara trade, but the other pieces are pretty legit, Grandal especially.

 

[idseer]

The Sox had a number of objectives they were to pursue this offseason to help turn them into a playoff contending team, such as:

1. Wanted a SP, preferably two. Check. They missed on Wheeler, but not without making a killer offer, then signed Keuchel and Gonzalez. Not sure who else they realistically had a shot at signing. Under the circumstances, they got who they were able to get.

2. Wanted a C. Check. They signed the #1 rated FA catcher out there. Granted at a hefty price, but this position carries a premium price tag. A lowball framing specialist, he's considered the ideal match for the two lowball pitchers we just signed. And he brings a lefty bat with him to boot (actually, he's a switch hitter, but he's much stronger from the left side).

3. Wanted a RF. Check. Now here's where we may agree, at least to a point. I was not thrilled with this move, having traded our #6 prospect for a young, yet experienced and unproven OFer. I'm hoping the scouts see something in him that just about no one else sees, so I'm willing to withhold judgment. But I'm still nonplussed with this one.

4. Wanted a DH. Check. Encarnacion brings experience, dependability, and a fairly significant HR swing with his resume.

5. Wanted a RP. TBD. If we started the season without having acquired one, then I would label this as a fail and my subsequent final grade will likely be affected. But we're not even in the New Year yet, there's plenty of offseason left. I'm confident that someone of talent will be inked.

So right or wrong, there's my B+ grade, which of course at this point is subject to change as deemed necessary.

#2 bullshit! you listed what we needed to be going after (and you were right) but catcher was NOT one of them.
#3 isn't much of a check.
#5 like you say ... tbd. if we get a decent one i might be moved to a C+.

don't know how you see this as a B+ as the only solid acquisition in this bunch was the needed DH ... and he's old as shit.

SP - C
RF - D
DH - B
RP - F
extra catcher - B

A=4
B=3
C=2
D=1
F=0

6 of possible 16 is a C- imo. if you want to add in an un-needed catcher then that brings it up to a C. all this for only $150 million.

yes, things can still change ... but don't forget. this is the sox! imo so far they've done little and spent a lot of money doing it.

and btw, you know they more than doubled mccann's salary. why do you think they did this? hmmmm.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

#2 bullshit! you listed what we needed to be going after (and you were right) but catcher was NOT one of them.

Posted below on November 13th under the title, "Targets: INF/C"

Now OTOH, one aspect of the infield that we may need help with is at C. Yes, at the moment we're set with James McCann and Zack Collins at this position. McCann in particular, had an all star first half of the season and was singled out for his handling of Giolito. But he had a fairly poor second half offensively, plus his overall defensive skills are considered below average at best. As for Collins, he may never become a quality catcher or at the least might need more time in the minors to hone those skills.

So how about Yasmani Grandal? For the past four seasons, only J.T. Realmuto has a higher WAR. Grandal wouldn't come cheap - most sports sites have him ranked in the top 10 of the current batch of FAs. But this would constitute a major score for Hahn & co if they can sign this guy.

The Sox signed Grandal on November 21st.

 

[idseer]

Posted below on November 13th under the title, "Targets: INF/C"



The Sox signed Grandal on November 21st.

uhhh no! sure you mentioned catcher as you mentioned every other position. but when it came to NEEDS you listed SP,DH,OF and BP. nothing else! almost everyone here did. no one ever mentioned catcher as being a need! you want to talk about someone having a poor 2nd half can i point out grandal hit .229 post all star last year. and he hit .226 post all star in '18. and he hit .217 post all star in '17. so where's the improvement there?
yasmani in 8 years as catcher has a 2.3 dwar. mccann in only 6 years has a 4.7 dwar.
fact is we didn't upgrade a thing at catcher. only thing yasmani brings is a little more power ... and that is NOT a sox need!

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

So I'm tied to giving an opinion of our team needs to just a one time post and no other? Gosh, thanks for clarifying the rules in here, idseer!! What are you, in 2nd grade grade or something? It's one thing to be constantly angry and bitter, but another to be outright pathetic. And that's what you've become.

 

[Voltaire26]

So I'm tied to giving an opinion of our team needs to just a one time post and no other? Gosh, thanks for clarifying the rules in here, idseer!! What are you, in 2nd grade grade or something? It's one thing to be constantly angry and bitter, but another to be outright pathetic. And that's what you've become.

The White Sox have done a lot this off season. It is unrealistic to think they could address every need with the best available player ... not happening for anyone. Also, your young players are ready for the next step. I think the White Sox are ready to battle the Twins for the title.

My view of the Indians is not so hopeful, they seem intent on selling out (but I wouldn't throw dirt on them just yet.

The Tigers are still a year or two away ... winning 70+ games in not out of the realm of possibility. The Tigers will not hesitate to release Zimmerman or bring up Mize, Manning or Skubal after May. Michael Fulmer will also be back in June/July. The question is can they hit (it's gotta be better than next year).

I don't view Kansas City as a threat to climb out of the basement (which means they will probably win the division).

Good luck this season getting rid of Chris Sale and Avisail Garcia was the best thing you did (both are cancers)

 

[idseer]

So I'm tied to giving an opinion of our team needs to just a one time post and no other? Gosh, thanks for clarifying the rules in here, idseer!! What are you, in 2nd grade grade or something? It's one thing to be constantly angry and bitter, but another to be outright pathetic. And that's what you've become.

if by 'tied' you mean be consistent ... yes. that's kinda what i'd expect. you want your cake AND eat it too and that's not how it works. methinks you NEED 2nd grade discipline, LSD. i've laid out in black and white the whats and whys and you've laid out nothing but hopes and dreams and you can't back up much of anything.
i actually hope your white sox dreams come true because i'd rather be wrong and have the winner team you think this collection of players is. but i just cannot buy into it until the sox start making moves that make good sense.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

The White Sox have done a lot this off season. It is unrealistic to think they could address every need with the best available player ... not happening for anyone. Also, your young players are ready for the next step. I think the White Sox are ready to battle the Twins for the title.

My view of the Indians is not so hopeful, they seem intent on selling out (but I wouldn't throw dirt on them just yet.

The Tigers are still a year or two away ... winning 70+ games in not out of the realm of possibility. The Tigers will not hesitate to release Zimmerman or bring up Mize, Manning or Skubal after May. Michael Fulmer will also be back in June/July. The question is can they hit (it's gotta be better than next year).

I don't view Kansas City as a threat to climb out of the basement (which means they will probably win the division).

Good luck this season getting rid of Chris Sale and Avisail Garcia was the best thing you did (both are cancers)

Good analysis overall. It's hard sometimes as a diehard fan to look past what our team achieved this offseason and loop that into the existing roster to come out with an accurate projection. But at least it looks like we're on our way to a plus season, maybe even sneak into the playoffs, who knows. BTW, love that you guys stole a couple of players away from the Twins.

 

[Voltaire26]

Good analysis overall. It's hard sometimes as a diehard fan to look past what our team achieved this offseason and loop that into the existing roster to come out with an accurate projection. But at least it looks like we're on our way to a plus season, maybe even (1) sneak into the playoffs, who knows. (2) BTW, love that you guys stole a couple of players away from the Twins.

(1) You aren't sneaking into anything ... you guys are Legit ... glad to see you kept Jose Abreu

(2) Maybe Cron and Schoop can bring some of the winning stuff here