Giants General Thoughts

[LHG]

Have we seen ANY results from the churn yet?

Yaz was a trade.
Wade was a trade.
Wynns was a trade.
Estrada was a trade.
MAYBE Alex Young?
Junis was an off season minor league FA. All teams have these, so it is hard to include him in “the churn”.

Mercedes is a one dimensional player, and his 1 dimension isn’t good enough to carry him.

If I have time, I may compile a full list of churnees (with approximate time on the 40 man roster and the org). I don't think it will look very pretty.

 

[calsnowskier]

If I have time, I may compile a full list of churnees (with approximate time on the 40 man roster and the org). I don't think it will look very pretty.

Tall task, but I would be very interested in seeing the results.

 

[SF11704]

If I have time, I may compile a full list of churnees (with approximate time on the 40 man roster and the org). I don't think it will look very pretty.

I absolutely hate the churn. I still don't see the benifit of this level of player movemenr. Finding a diamond in the rough is ..... just that. It doesn't look like a diamond. You have to do quite a bit of evaluation to actually know what you have. I dont think we hold on to most of these players for any type of evaluation period. I'm not even sure they are going through any evaluation at all.

Makes you wonder ... what would have happened to a Soto or a Judge if they entered this churn process very early in their careers ... could this process even identify the potential ....

Or ....is this really part of a compulsive need to collect and move players .... just for the sake of collection and movement. Have I said I hate this process . At least in the past 3 minutes...

 

[calsnowskier]

I absolutely hate the churn. I still don't see the benifit of this level of player movemenr. Finding a diamond in the rough is ..... just that. It doesn't look like a diamond. You have to do quite a bit of evaluation to actually know what you have. I dont think we hold on to most of these players for any type of evaluation period. I'm not even sure they are going through any evaluation at all.

Makes you wonder ... what would have happened to a Soto or a Judge if they entered this churn process very early in their careers ... could this process even identify the potential ....

Or ....is this really part of a compulsive need to collect and move players .... just for the sake of collection and movement. Have I said I hate this process . At least in the past 3 minutes...

To be fair, super-studs don’t ever make it into the churn. And that isn’t what the churn is meant to find. The churn is intended to find guys who may be able to be a fringe guy (or better, hopefully). That’s why I am ok with the churn, as a SUPPLIMENTARY roster creation tool. But FZ, so far, has used it as the PRIMARY roster creation tool.

Maybe that‘s because the Giants, internally, are in a complete rebuild mode, and 107 made as much sense to them as it did to us.

 

[pachyderm]

I saw that the Cubs optioned Kervin Castro yesterday and looked at his minor league numbers. I knew he was rushed last year but forgot how big of a leap he made. Prior to the 2021 season, Castro had not pitched above short A ball and that was after two years in the DSL. At just 22 years of age, he jumped 4 classification levels and handled it very well, both at AAA and the big leagues. So he struggles this year at AAA (who didn't, with the RiverCats). Why the heck did FZ decide that he wasn't worth keeping any longer? The moves boggle the mind.

Maybe because he wasn't a weak hitting, injury prone, middle infielder...?

:P

 

[tzill]

From Grant B today:

In the ashes of 2022, it’s time to wonder if Longoria’s option should get picked up.

The first time I heard this suggestion, I had the same reaction that a lot of you are having right now: No way. It’s a knee-jerk response, and it’s an understandable one. Longoria has been good, but he hasn’t been so good that he’s worth whatever you think his 2023 option will pay him.

Except that option is for $13 million, which might be less than you think. It isn’t outlandish for his current production, even with his injuries and missed time factored in. And there’s even more to the decision than that because there’s a $5 million buyout on the option. That means for the Giants’ purposes, they have to decide if they want Longoria on what’s essentially a one-year, $8 million contract.

Suddenly, this decision starts to make itself. As long as Longoria keeps hitting, it’s hard to see the Giants declining that.

 

[LHG]

From Grant B today:

In the ashes of 2022, it’s time to wonder if Longoria’s option should get picked up.

The first time I heard this suggestion, I had the same reaction that a lot of you are having right now: No way. It’s a knee-jerk response, and it’s an understandable one. Longoria has been good, but he hasn’t been so good that he’s worth whatever you think his 2023 option will pay him.

Except that option is for $13 million, which might be less than you think. It isn’t outlandish for his current production, even with his injuries and missed time factored in. And there’s even more to the decision than that because there’s a $5 million buyout on the option. That means for the Giants’ purposes, they have to decide if they want Longoria on what’s essentially a one-year, $8 million contract.

Suddenly, this decision starts to make itself. As long as Longoria keeps hitting, it’s hard to see the Giants declining that.

I would agree that the option is looking much more palatable but he is injury prone and, as we've learned this year, injury prone old players can have sudden drops in productivity.
Is there still talk that he may retire?

 

[tzill]

I would agree that the option is looking much more palatable but he is injury prone and, as we've learned this year, injury prone old players can have sudden drops in productivity.
Is there still talk that he may retire?

I haven't seen it. I'd be surprised if he did. He's still effective when healthy.

 

[calsnowskier]

I haven't seen it. I'd be surprised if he did. He's still effective when healthy.

He mentioned himself not so long ago that he is seriously considering retirement. He did say, however, that he would play if the Giants picked up his option. I think that was more of a “threat”, forcing them to not play the game of picking up his option just to avoid paying the buyout.

 

[tzill]

Don't know if anybody has peeped the 2023 schedule yet but we open in NYC vs the Yanka$$. Thursday Opening Day, Fri off, Sat and Sunday day games.

I think I'm going. I'll bribe the wife with a play on Friday night.

It'll be cool to see Judge get booed as a visitor.

 

[Stokes1931]

Don't know if anybody has peeped the 2023 schedule yet but we open in NYC vs the Yanka$$. Thursday Opening Day, Fri off, Sat and Sunday day games.

I think I'm going. I'll bribe the wife with a play on Friday night.

It'll be cool to see Judge get booed as a visitor.

If Judge becomes a Giant, the PR department can cue up all the old Flip Wilson/Laugh In bits of "Here come the Judge! Here come the Judge!"

Or they could just roll out this bad boy:

 

[tzill]

 

[calsnowskier]

Based on FZ’s comments over the last few days, he is almost painting himself into a corner where he has no choice but to sign either/both Judge and/or Turner.

 

[calsnowskier]

No idea where to put this, so I figured this was probably the best place…

DrB had a GREAT break down of SP effectiveness yesterday. His conclusion was that ace SP just don’t make a huge difference in team W/L anymore and the Gs should probably let Rodon walk and spend that money elsewhere.

 

[tzill]

No idea where to put this, so I figured this was probably the best place…

DrB had a GREAT break down of SP effectiveness yesterday. His conclusion was that ace SP just don’t make a huge difference in team W/L anymore and the Gs should probably let Rodon walk and spend that money elsewhere.

Very interesting...please post link.

 

[calsnowskier]

Very interesting...please post link.

I figured everyone already had the link to DrB…

Game Wrap 8/27/2022: Twins 3 Giants 2

Alex Cobb RHP was electric for 5 innings and the Giants took a 2-0 lead into the bottom of the 9'th inning which the Fox broadcast team sa...

whenthegiantscometotown.blogspot.com

 

[tzill]

Speaking with KNBR’s “Murph & Mac” show on Friday, longtime Giants broadcaster Mike Krukow revealed Rodón would like to come back in 2023.

“First of all, I hope [the Giants] sign him. They’re trying to sign him, he wants to stay here,” Krukow said. “He likes San Francisco, so that’s where it’s at.”

 

[tzill]

I figured everyone already had the link to DrB…

Game Wrap 8/27/2022: Twins 3 Giants 2

Alex Cobb RHP was electric for 5 innings and the Giants took a 2-0 lead into the bottom of the 9'th inning which the Fox broadcast team sa...

whenthegiantscometotown.blogspot.com

Kind of a facile analysis. First, it looks at W-L and ERA, two metrics that are not very helpful. I think you have to look at FIP and ERA+ to begin. I don't agree that Rodon "isn't worth a 7 figure contract." I think he is, for a few reasons.
1. He's a top 10 NL pitcher and ace
2. He generates a LOT of swing and misses
3. He's generally healthy
4. He's a red ass and can fire up a clubhouse

I think if you bring him back at market rate, you have: Webb/Rodon/Cobb/Disco/Wood/Harrison/Hjelle/Liberatore/Junis

I think you start with the SP and build a team from there, but I am biased toward pitching.

 

[calsnowskier]

Speaking with KNBR’s “Murph & Mac” show on Friday, longtime Giants broadcaster Mike Krukow revealed Rodón would like to come back in 2023.

“First of all, I hope [the Giants] sign him. They’re trying to sign him, he wants to stay here,” Krukow said. “He likes San Francisco, so that’s where it’s at.”

Krukow has become too much of an Orange-tinted glasses wearing homer the last few years, I don’t trust/believe anything he says in regards to that sort of thing.

 

[calsnowskier]

Kind of a facile analysis. First, it looks at W-L and ERA, two metrics that are not very helpful. I think you have to look at FIP and ERA+ to begin. I don't agree that Rodon "isn't worth a 7 figure contract." I think he is, for a few reasons.
1. He's a top 10 NL pitcher and ace
2. He generates a LOT of swing and misses
3. He's generally healthy
4. He's a red ass and can fire up a clubhouse

I think if you bring him back at market rate, you have: Webb/Rodon/Cobb/Disco/Wood/Harrison/Hjelle/Liberatore/Junis

I think you start with the SP and build a team from there, but I am biased toward pitching.

He is looking at actual results of the team. And the SP who only goes 5 or 6 does not have that large a effect on the game as he once did. IMHO, one of the most important stats for a SP is IP. And there are only a small handful of pitchers who excel In that stat today. And that is probably more due to their manager/FO than it is of the pitcher himself.