GDT Baby Bears @ Champs, 8/29

[msgkings322]

I don't think it's fair enough to say that Beltran has been a barley adequate middle of the order hitter when he has had such a SSS with us. If he signs a 2-3 year deal, I'd do it because I think he has at least 1 great year left in him and a few good years left. IMO, if we acquire a CF/leadoff type, let him walk. But if we sign Reyes, we're going to need another bat in the OF. Belt-Nate-Beltran. I think people are being a bit to hard on Beltran (though it wouldn't hurt to at least not look like you're dogging it).

Reyes really scares the shit out of me though and if we could get him on a shorter deal (5 years), I'd do it. Not really sure what his markets like though. I've heard as low as 4 years $60 million and as high as Carl Crawford money.

Fair enough, reasonable folks can disagree. I too would love to get Reyes for 5 yrs or less, but not sure that's what he'll get. He knows he's injury prone so he will want the security of a longer deal even if it's less $ per yr. And some owner will be dumb enough to bite, I think.

That's the GM's job, they see what's really out there. Sabean is a good one, I trust he'll more often than not make the right moves.

Beltran I don't like, wrong side of 30, falling apart, nonchalant...this is the kind of player we used to get and curse getting. Spend the $ elsewhere.

 

[SFGRTB]

Fair enough, reasonable folks can disagree. I too would love to get Reyes for 5 yrs or less, but not sure that's what he'll get. He knows he's injury prone so he will want the security of a longer deal even if it's less $ per yr. And some owner will be dumb enough to bite, I think.

That's the GM's job, they see what's really out there. Sabean is a good one, I trust he'll more often than not make the right moves.

Beltran I don't like, wrong side of 30, falling apart, nonchalant...this is the kind of player we used to get and curse getting. Spend the $ elsewhere.

With Beltran, I just don't see much else out there in terms of bats. But what do I know, we just base our ideas off the media and what would make sense. Sabes knows whats up.

I want to see what Beltran does here in September. Then I'll give more input.

 

[CameronFrye]

With Beltran, I just don't see much else out there in terms of bats. But what do I know, we just base our ideas off the media and what would make sense. Sabes knows whats up.

I want to see what Beltran does here in September. Then I'll give more input.

Screw making sense. On the very first day that free agents can sign contracts, Sabean had better be at Prince Fielder's house with a contract of 7 years and $140 million. Period. There's no injury history to worry about, he's still fairly young, the guy is consistently hitting around .280 with 35+ bombs and 120 RBIs, his OBP is hovering around .400 so the guy knows how to take a walk, and he plays a position the Giants need to fill - first base. And Belt fans, PLEASE don't tell me you'd rather have Belt at 1B than Prince Fielder. Belt can learn to be a solid LF but he will never learn to hit 40 home runs and drive in 140 runs in a season. That is what Fielder can do for a team.

The only way that Fielder should not be the team's top target is if he signs an extension before the FA period begins. There is just no logical reason to not go after him.

 

[nateistheshi]

Screw making sense. On the very first day that free agents can sign contracts, Sabean had better be at Prince Fielder's house with a contract of 7 years and $140 million. Period. There's no injury history to worry about, he's still fairly young, the guy is consistently hitting around .280 with 35+ bombs and 120 RBIs, his OBP is hovering around .400 so the guy knows how to take a walk, and he plays a position the Giants need to fill - first base. And Belt fans, PLEASE don't tell me you'd rather have Belt at 1B than Prince Fielder. Belt can learn to be a solid LF but he will never learn to hit 40 home runs and drive in 140 runs in a season. That is what Fielder can do for a team.

The only way that Fielder should not be the team's top target is if he signs an extension before the FA period begins. There is just no logical reason to not go after him.

That all depends on where the FO is willing to put the payroll. I'd rather keep Lincecum and Cain than get Fielder if they aren't willing to enter the $150M range.

Also I'd rather have Belt at First base for the next 5 years for around $20M total than Fielder for $20M/year.

 

[the_broom]

Screw making sense. On the very first day that free agents can sign contracts, Sabean had better be at Prince Fielder's house with a contract of 7 years and $140 million. Period. There's no injury history to worry about, he's still fairly young, the guy is consistently hitting around .280 with 35+ bombs and 120 RBIs, his OBP is hovering around .400 so the guy knows how to take a walk, and he plays a position the Giants need to fill - first base. And Belt fans, PLEASE don't tell me you'd rather have Belt at 1B than Prince Fielder. Belt can learn to be a solid LF but he will never learn to hit 40 home runs and drive in 140 runs in a season. That is what Fielder can do for a team.

The only way that Fielder should not be the team's top target is if he signs an extension before the FA period begins. There is just no logical reason to not go after him.

Do you think he gets those numbers in AT&T ?

 

[CameronFrye]

That all depends on where the FO is willing to put the payroll. I'd rather keep Lincecum and Cain than get Fielder if they aren't willing to enter the $150M range.

Also I'd rather have Belt at First base for the next 5 years for around $20M total than Fielder for $20M/year.

First off, signing Fielder would have no impact on Lincecum or Cain. Cain is already signed for next year and taking DuhRosa's salary off the books gives the Giants an extra $6 mil to give to Timmeh. Add in Ross' deal, Tejava's deal and whatever the team will save by trading Durty and suddenly the team is looking at an additional $16 million in cash. I know that there are other guys who will get a raise, but the Giants have enough minimum salary guys on the roster that they can afford to splurge and go get a guy like Prince without worrying about having to not sign a current contributor.

Plus, Rowand's albatross comes off the books next season and Zito's nightmare comes to a close the year after that so there's Fielder's salaries for the next two years.

Bottom line is that payroll should be the LAST reason why the Giants do not offer Fielder a contract.

 

[CameronFrye]

Do you think he gets those numbers in AT&T ?

Yes. That guy hits no matter where he plays. Period.

.311/.386/.483 line in 61 at-bats at AT&T park. 2 bombs, 2 doubles; 9 RBIs.

And remember that he did that while facing Timmeh and Cainer and Bumgarner and Durty and FYWW. Imagine what he will do when he faces Randy Wolf and Tim Stauffer and Ted Lilly for a full season.

 

[the_broom]

Yes. That guy hits no matter where he plays. Period.

.311/.386/.483 line in 61 at-bats at AT&T park. 2 bombs, 2 doubles; 9 RBIs.

And remember that he did that while facing Timmeh and Cainer and Bumgarner and Durty and FYWW. Imagine what he will do when he faces Randy Wolf and Tim Stauffer and Ted Lilly for a full season.

Those numbers are much better than I expected....though I imagine he'll get a bit of a drop with the Giants lineup around him.

I guess part of me struggles with this because he is such a punk...that whole "bowling ball thing"...

 

[CameronFrye]

Those numbers are much better than I expected....though I imagine he'll get a bit of a drop with the Giants lineup around him.

I guess part of me struggles with this because he is such a punk...that whole "bowling ball thing"...

And Barry Bonds was a humble unassuming baseball star, right? :ss:


Seriously, I don't care for any extra antics on the field, but if Fielder is wearing Teh French Vanilla in four months' time, all will be forgiven.

 

[nateistheshi]

First off, signing Fielder would have no impact on Lincecum or Cain. Cain is already signed for next year and taking DuhRosa's salary off the books gives the Giants an extra $6 mil to give to Timmeh. Add in Ross' deal, Tejava's deal and whatever the team will save by trading Durty and suddenly the team is looking at an additional $16 million in cash. I know that there are other guys who will get a raise, but the Giants have enough minimum salary guys on the roster that they can afford to splurge and go get a guy like Prince without worrying about having to not sign a current contributor.

Plus, Rowand's albatross comes off the books next season and Zito's nightmare comes to a close the year after that so there's Fielder's salaries for the next two years.

Bottom line is that payroll should be the LAST reason why the Giants do not offer Fielder a contract.

Those minimum salary guys won't be minimum salary for too long. Panda's arb eligible starting next offseason, Posey and Madbum will follow shortly after. This is where the money saved from Tejada and Derosa will go.

While I agree that the FO should make an effort for Fielder, they shouldn't commit to the Teixeiraesque contract (8/180) that Boras is ultimately going to get for a future DH. Also Timmy is set to already eclipse $20M this offseason when he goes to arbitration for the final time.

If you factor in all of these commitments with Fielder involved then payroll will have to be at least $130M next year.

This team has many holes, but 1B is a hole that will be easier to fill internally. If Jose Reyes has really seen a tremendous drop in his value with the recent injuries, then he's who I would prefer (maybe a 5/90.) He would be much cheaper and have the same impact Fielder would, but he'd be filling what is essentially a black hole for the Giants. I know he has seen his fair share of injury time, but I do think that if he had more regular days off he'd be ok, also the opposing team will simply pitch around Fielder more often than not on this team.

As long as the team raised payroll I'd be happy with either player, but not if the FO decides to keep it the same and Giants lose Cain or Lincecum.

 

[CameronFrye]

Those minimum salary guys won't be minimum salary for too long. Panda's arb eligible starting next offseason, Posey and Madbum will follow shortly after. This is where the money saved from Tejada and Derosa will go.

While I agree that the FO should make an effort for Fielder, they shouldn't commit to the Teixeiraesque contract (8/180) that Boras is ultimately going to get for a future DH. Also Timmy is set to already eclipse $20M this offseason when he goes to arbitration for the final time.

If you factor in all of these commitments with Fielder involved then payroll will have to be at least $130M next year.

This team has many holes, but 1B is a hole that will be easier to fill internally. If Jose Reyes has really seen a tremendous drop in his value with the recent injuries, then he's who I would prefer (maybe a 5/90.) He would be much cheaper and have the same impact Fielder would, but he'd be filling what is essentially a black hole for the Giants. I know he has seen his fair share of injury time, but I do think that if he had more regular days off he'd be ok, also the opposing team will simply pitch around Fielder more often than not on this team.

As long as the team raised payroll I'd be happy with either player, but not if the FO decides to keep it the same and Giants lose Cain or Lincecum.

So you'd rather pay 5 years and $90 million for an injury-prone player like Reyes instead of $140 million over 7 years for a guy like Fielder who has not missed games due to injury?

The Giants have enough money coming off the books in the next few years with DuhRosa, Ross, Beltran, Huff, Rowand, Zito and Torres that the team should not have to worry about having to pay Posey 3 years down the line.

And as far as the assertion that 1B is easier to fill internally, that is totally irrelevant. It's Fielder's BAT that the Giants need. There's no one even remotely close to that in the Giants chain - anywhere. In fact, they haven't had that kind of bat in the system since Matt Williams.

Shortstop will be easy to fill internally and defensively with Stamos and the kid from SJ Adrianza. If either one of them hits .250, it is more than adequate.

But you will not find a bigger bat than Fielder. Put him between Posey and Panda next season and no one is going to pitch around him. Period.

 

[nateistheshi]

So you'd rather pay 5 years and $90 million for an injury-prone player like Reyes instead of $140 million over 7 years for a guy like Fielder who has not missed games due to injury?

The Giants have enough money coming off the books in the next few years with DuhRosa, Ross, Beltran, Huff, Rowand, Zito and Torres that the team should not have to worry about having to pay Posey 3 years down the line.

And as far as the assertion that 1B is easier to fill internally, that is totally irrelevant. It's Fielder's BAT that the Giants need. There's no one even remotely close to that in the Giants chain - anywhere. In fact, they haven't had that kind of bat in the system since Matt Williams.

Shortstop will be easy to fill internally and defensively with Stamos and the kid from SJ Adrianza. If either one of them hits .250, it is more than adequate.

But you will not find a bigger bat than Fielder. Put him between Posey and Panda next season and no one is going to pitch around him. Period.

1. Absolutely.

2. We don't have to worry about it, but the FO is going to be worrying about all upcoming arb raises when they make a big signing like that, even those that could take place in 2014.

3. Fielder's bat would be a big boost, but it would come at the expense of PT for Belt and Huff, both of which are capable of being at least league average players (2 WAR.) Reyes would be taking playing time away from Crawford or Fontenot, both of which are worse hitters than Huff or Belt.

4. Belt could fill in easier at 1B than Crawford could at SS. He hasn't even hit .250 at AA or higher over a whole year yet alone in the MLB. Scouting reports on Belt say he's a potential star, Crawford's ceiling is a great fielding, below average hitting SS. Adrianza is doing well, but he's still too far away to have him in the immediate plans.

5. Except for that guy in St. Louis that's also a FA, you're right. If they'd be willing to commit a monster contract to Fielder then why not an extra $2M/ year or so for a guy that can play in the field and is a better hitter?

 

[CameronFrye]

1. Absolutely.

2. We don't have to worry about it, but the FO is going to be worrying about all upcoming arb raises when they make a big signing like that, even those that could take place in 2014.

3. Fielder's bat would be a big boost, but it would come at the expense of PT for Belt and Huff, both of which are capable of being at least league average players (2 WAR.) Reyes would be taking playing time away from Crawford or Fontenot, both of which are worse hitters than Huff or Belt.

4. Belt could fill in easier at 1B than Crawford could at SS. He hasn't even hit .250 at AA or higher over a whole year yet alone in the MLB. Scouting reports on Belt say he's a potential star, Crawford's ceiling is a great fielding, below average hitting SS. Adrianza is doing well, but he's still too far away to have him in the immediate plans.

5. Except for that guy in St. Louis that's also a FA, you're right. If they'd be willing to commit a monster contract to Fielder then why not an extra $2M/ year or so for a guy that can play in the field and is a better hitter?

Unless Fielder plays LF, I don't see how signing him would take PT away form Belt in the long run. Huff will steal time from Belt next season, but Huff's deal is up after next season and he's not coming back after that. The Giants really have no one to play LF other than Belt, so let him stay there and learn the position for one more year before taking over full-time in 2012.

Reyes cannot help any team when he's on the DL. He's 28 years old and his body is already breaking down. You keep talking about Fielder as a future DH, but until he starts missing games due to weight issues or until he hits the DL because he's too fat, I would think that your comparison is quite unfair. As little as 6 months ago, people were talking about Panda as if he was going to eat his way out of the league. I don't hear that talk any longer. Fielder can lose weight. Reyes cannot get unhurt.

 

[tzill]

Yes. That guy hits no matter where he plays. Period.

.311/.386/.483 line in 61 at-bats at AT&T park. 2 bombs, 2 doubles; 9 RBIs.

And remember that he did that while facing Timmeh and Cainer and Bumgarner and Durty and FYWW. Imagine what he will do when he faces Randy Wolf and Tim Stauffer and Ted Lilly for a full season.

So you quadruple that line to get a full home season:\
311/386/483 8 HR 8 2B 36 RBI.

For $20MM a year?

Pass.....plus, he's going to eat his way into the AL where he can DH.

 

[msgkings322]

So you quadruple that line to get a full home season:\
311/386/483 8 HR 8 2B 36 RBI.

For $20MM a year?

Pass.....plus, he's going to eat his way into the AL where he can DH.

I'm impressed that he's able to do that with just tofu and vegiburgers. That guy must eat a shit ton of lentils.

 

[CameronFrye]

So you quadruple that line to get a full home season:\
311/386/483 8 HR 8 2B 36 RBI.

For $20MM a year?

Pass.....plus, he's going to eat his way into the AL where he can DH.

Enough with the fat jokes.

Fielder is not going to put up mediocre lines no matter where he plays.

And quadrupling that line is like what the Warriors fans did trying to extrapolate Adonal Foyle's full-game totals based on his 10 minutes a game before his deal - it's totally irrelevant. Fielder will not be facing Tim Lincecum (.235 baa in 17 abs) at at&t park if he's wearing a Giants uniform. Nor will he be facing Matt Cain (.278 baa in 18 abs) or even Barry Zito (.178 baa in 18 abs) SO you cannot take his line AGAINST those pitchers and say that he's going to fare the same when those pitchers are on his team.

 

[msgkings322]

Enough with the fat jokes.

Fielder is not going to put up mediocre lines no matter where he plays.

And quadrupling that line is like what the Warriors fans did trying to extrapolate Adonal Foyle's full-game totals based on his 10 minutes a game before his deal - it's totally irrelevant. Fielder will not be facing Tim Lincecum (.235 baa in 17 abs) at at&t park if he's wearing a Giants uniform. Nor will he be facing Matt Cain (.278 baa in 18 abs) or even Barry Zito (.178 baa in 18 abs) SO you cannot take his line AGAINST those pitchers and say that he's going to fare the same when those pitchers are on his team.

'Fat jokes'? The dude is fat. It's an issue. A little HFish?

He will be facing Kershaw, Billingsley, Latos, Hudson, Kennedy, etc plenty at AT&T

 

[nateistheshi]

'Fat jokes'? The dude is fat. It's an issue. A little HFish?

He will be facing Kershaw, Billingsley, Latos, Hudson, Kennedy, etc plenty at AT&T

Don't forget Ubaldo Jimenez

 

[msgkings322]

Don't forget Ubaldo Jimenez

Hmmm... not sure I follow

 

[nateistheshi]

Hmmm... not sure I follow

Just excited that the Rockies indicated at the deadline they don't intend to compete this or next season.