GDT Baby Bears @ Champs, 8/29

[KingsOwn19]

Well, one could argue that Ross and Huff were shitty signings too...but he HAD to bring the team back. Had to. And it didn't work out.

He deserves credit for not overpaying on Uribe. Ross, Torres, DeRosa, and Tejada will all be gone next year. Rowand and Huff the year after that.

And I have faith in him also. I'm more worried about the slim-picking among free agents, along with the difficulty of getting much value for Dirty in a trade, given his injuries this year.

Plus, Huff had earned the deal he got. He had an excellent year and a good enough track record for fans to expect that he was not overachieving. He's had those type of years before. Plus, i remember the announcers would always be saying Huff and Uribe were the clubhouse leaders for that team, and both were huge for the team. You just could not lose both of them.

 

[msgkings322]

This season is tito's fault really. He jumped on the bandwagon in July, loves Orlando Cabrera. Declared the team a lock after the Beltran deal, and had been hoping for less of Nate all year. He got all his player moves, so, of course, the Giants immediately crash and burn.

Really? That motherfucker. I do think he deserves some of the blame.

 

[SFAnthem]

Yeah, Grissom hit a walk off 2-run double in extra innings.

I did and got caught up in a 10 minute youtube sinkhole jumping from vid to vid until i ended up at the ambidextrous pitcher.

*oops should have been a response to this

Everyone needs to listen to that link Kings provided, it cheered me up a ton.

 

[msgkings322]

totally agree.

Complete second guessing on my part but the only thing I would criticize Sabes and Co. is not having a backup plan in case Torres, Huff, and Ross regressed.

As for SS, this board was smarter than Sabes on that one - several guys called for Hardy prior to signings.

Torres you could easily have forseen, but Huff and ROss we should have at least gotten career averages from.

 

[msgkings322]

Have a good one guys. We are some sick fucks for watching this whole game.

I stopped really paying attention when we went down 5-0, focusing on this GDT which helped.

 

[calsnowskier]

totally agree.

Complete second guessing on my part but the only thing I would criticize Sabes and Co. is not having a backup plan in case Torres, Huff, and Ross regressed.

As for SS, this board was smarter than Sabes on that one - several guys called for Hardy prior to signings.

Just because we wanted him, does not mean he wanted us.

We all acknowledge that world peace is desired. That does not mean it is easily accomplished.

 

[SFAnthem]

urge to kill subdued - time to start that 10 game winning streak tomorrow!

nite all

 

[SFAnthem]

Just because we wanted him, does not mean he wanted us.

We all acknowledge that world peace is desired. That does not mean it is easily accomplished.

he wouldn't like us? we have shiny rings?

 

[msgkings322]

Timmy putting on a brave face in the postgame. Also looks like he had a consolation bong rip.

Which sounds pretty good....

 

[gp956]

Huff's hotzone comparison:

Note this is a true wOBA scale.

 

[CameronFrye]

Well, sadly, Huff prevents that. If they won't DFA Zito or Rowand, Huff stays at 1B next year.

Also, it's not the money with Prince, it's that he will get 8 years and that's ridiculous. And also, no hitter in his right mind would come here.

I want Fielder and Reyes. But ain't gonna happen.

Only way we get offense is the Sandoval/Posey/Belt (?) way. Hopefully Brown and then someday Panik etc turn into something.

We may be contenders again in 2012, but it will be like 2010, middling offense at BEST, and great pitching.

To get Fielder, the Giants are going to have to be the top bidder, but it can happen. Sign Coco Crisp and put him in center. Put Huff in left, Nate in right. Belt can be a 4th OF.**

Fielder at first, Sanchez at second, Stamos at short, Panda at third with Posey catching.

Lineup:

CF - Coco
2B - Sanchez
C - Posey
1B - Fielder
3B - Panda
RF - Nate
LF - Belt/Huff
SS- Stamos

Rotation:
Lincecum
Cain
Bumgarner
Vogelsong
Surkamp


- Trade Rowand for a resin bag or release him outright if no one will give up the bag.

- Trade Jon Sanchez for a bucket of balls

- Put Zito in the pen and tell him he gets to start when an injury occurs in the starting lineup. Otherwise he's long relief/blowout pitcher.

- Trade Brian Wilson for a decent prospect and let Romo close or bring up Hembree if mgmt thinks he's ready.

- Let OC, Tejava, Whiteside, Fontenot, DuhRosa, Ross, Andy Towers and Carl Brittle-tran walk. Fill all those spots with minor leaguers/min salary vets.

There's plenty enough cost savings in the trades/non-signings to be able to afford Fielder. It CAN be done. The question is do the brass in the front office in SF have the stones to try it?




**It may suck to platoon Belt, but it's not like the team does not have precedent keeping a deserving player down an extra year (Nate).

 

[gp956]

...and just to compare to an elite hitter:

Note the scale change to .700, as opposed to Huff's, which tops out at .400. Scale is still a true wOBA, though.

 

[calsnowskier]

Huff's hotzone comparison:

Note this is a true wOBA scale.

You messed it up. You forgot to add the red portion to the 2011 map...

 

[SFGRTB]

Sounds like I missed a good game...

 

[Stokes1931]

I walked at 5-0, spent some quality time with Mrs. Stokes.

I must say, this board, and its humor, makes this bad dream of a season much more bearable.

There are no answers, the gods are against us.

My fear is that if we make a run (and I hope we show some sack and do), and come "close", then management will assume that things were OK this season. And with all the money and the sellouts, well, next year won't have many changes.

There is a fine business book out there called "Our Iceberg is Melting", all about the sense of urgency needed to make strategic changes in an organization. My fear is that management will refuse to see that the iceberg is melting, and the time window we have with these elite pitchers will not be open forever. So it will be business as usual in the off season. Sabean dumpster diving for washed up vets with a few miles left on them, or overpaying some flash in the pan who is totally unsuited for playing in SF.

Plan A: do nothing

Plan B: sign some washed up vets

Plan C: get rid of dead weight, play the kids

Plan D: sign the next "Bonds", and surround him with trash for a few years

Plan E: sign a decent leadoff hitter, and someone who is in the top 25 hitting with RISP

Plan F: pray

It is not just the players, either. As filo said today, the loss of Franchez and Posey was a really wicked 1-2 punch, and we have not coped well. But the management needs some tweaking/overhaul.

Bochy may be a fine manager, but he cannot seem to develop talent, nor play the hand he is dealt. Last night, in game 133 of the season, in a crucial situation, Wotus/Flannery ordered Tejada to sacrifice bunt for the FIRST TIME THIS SEASON! This bull---- of coddling the vets and keeping "everyone happy" is nonsense. This is not a freaking preschool, it is a major league ball club. WHat makes major league ball clubs happy is WINNING!

And don't get me started on Whiff-Whiff Meulens. We keep playing terrible teams (Pirates, Astros, Cubs, Padres) who all play better than we do, with much less talent. They do the small things we do not, can not, or will not do.

I know this is heresy, but part of me just wants to burn down the rest of the season so that it is clear to the PTB's that changes must be made. Not miniature changes, but major changes.

But I love the Giants, so I will root until the last game of the season. And when the season ends, I will have enough home made manure to fertilize the Imperial Valley for a decade.

End of rant.

 

[Stokes1931]

...and just to compare to an elite hitter:

Note the scale change to .700, as opposed to Huff's, which tops out at .400. Scale is still a true wOBA, though.

Wow! Now the 2011 version is a professional hitter!

Votto is hitting over .400 with RISP.

 

[Stokes1931]

You messed it up. You forgot to add the red portion to the 2011 map...

Rep!

 

[SFGRTB]

To get Fielder, the Giants are going to have to be the top bidder, but it can happen. Sign Coco Crisp and put him in center. Put Huff in left, Nate in right. Belt can be a 4th OF.**

Fielder at first, Sanchez at second, Stamos at short, Panda at third with Posey catching.

Lineup:

CF - Coco
2B - Sanchez
C - Posey
1B - Fielder
3B - Panda
RF - Nate
LF - Belt/Huff
SS- Stamos

Rotation:
Lincecum
Cain
Bumgarner
Vogelsong
Surkamp


- Trade Rowand for a resin bag or release him outright if no one will give up the bag.

- Trade Jon Sanchez for a bucket of balls

- Put Zito in the pen and tell him he gets to start when an injury occurs in the starting lineup. Otherwise he's long relief/blowout pitcher.

- Trade Brian Wilson for a decent prospect and let Romo close or bring up Hembree if mgmt thinks he's ready.

- Let OC, Tejava, Whiteside, Fontenot, DuhRosa, Ross, Andy Towers and Carl Brittle-tran walk. Fill all those spots with minor leaguers/min salary vets.

There's plenty enough cost savings in the trades/non-signings to be able to afford Fielder. It CAN be done. The question is do the brass in the front office in SF have the stones to try it?




**It may suck to platoon Belt, but it's not like the team does not have precedent keeping a deserving player down an extra year (Nate).

I actually think this could be pretty accurate. And if Fielder isn't an option, Jose Reyes is the perfect fit for this team (injuries and all ). And in that situation, I see Beltran re-signed.

SS-Reyes
2B-Franchez
C-Posey
3B-Sandoval
RF-Beltran
1B-Huff
LF-Belt
CF-Nate

IMO, after this season, Dirty is gone, Rowfuck is gone (replaced by Ford), DeRosa/Teh nada/O-Crap replaced by Burriss/Gillaspie/Stamos, Whiteside out Stewart stays. Maybe Pill finds a way in there. Kepp is also there.

Lincecum
Cain
Bum
Volgy
Surkamp

Wilson stays, Lopez re-signs.

Question is, what can we get in return for Sanchez? He is a tough read, I think the Giants are fed-up with him but at the same time have no chance to receive equal trade value.

Will they finally cut ties with Zito? He CANNOT pitch out of the pen. I'd rather throw Dirty back into the pen, Zito is just not meant for it.

 

[SFGRTB]

I walked at 5-0, spent some quality time with Mrs. Stokes.

I must say, this board, and its humor, makes this bad dream of a season much more bearable.

There are no answers, the gods are against us.

My fear is that if we make a run (and I hope we show some sack and do), and come "close", then management will assume that things were OK this season. And with all the money and the sellouts, well, next year won't have many changes.

There is a fine business book out there called "Our Iceberg is Melting", all about the sense of urgency needed to make strategic changes in an organization. My fear is that management will refuse to see that the iceberg is melting, and the time window we have with these elite pitchers will not be open forever. So it will be business as usual in the off season. Sabean dumpster diving for washed up vets with a few miles left on them, or overpaying some flash in the pan who is totally unsuited for playing in SF.

Plan A: do nothing

Plan B: sign some washed up vets

Plan C: get rid of dead weight, play the kids

Plan D: sign the next "Bonds", and surround him with trash for a few years

Plan E: sign a decent leadoff hitter, and someone who is in the top 25 hitting with RISP

Plan F: pray

It is not just the players, either. As filo said today, the loss of Franchez and Posey was a really wicked 1-2 punch, and we have not coped well. But the management needs some tweaking/overhaul.

Bochy may be a fine manager, but he cannot seem to develop talent, nor play the hand he is dealt. Last night, in game 133 of the season, in a crucial situation, Wotus/Flannery ordered Tejada to sacrifice bunt for the FIRST TIME THIS SEASON! This bull---- of coddling the vets and keeping "everyone happy" is nonsense. This is not a freaking preschool, it is a major league ball club. WHat makes major league ball clubs happy is WINNING!

And don't get me started on Whiff-Whiff Meulens. We keep playing terrible teams (Pirates, Astros, Cubs, Padres) who all play better than we do, with much less talent. They do the small things we do not, can not, or will not do.

I know this is heresy, but part of me just wants to burn down the rest of the season so that it is clear to the PTB's that changes must be made. Not miniature changes, but major changes.

But I love the Giants, so I will root until the last game of the season. And when the season ends, I will have enough home made manure to fertilize the Imperial Valley for a decade.

End of rant.

I think management knows they need big changes. Sabean called out the hitters around the trade deadline and Boch cancelled his interview today with reporters and encouraged them to ask the hitters what's going on.

I think the fates of Ross, Torres and Tejada are sealed and only an explosion (and I mean EXPLOSION, like a nuke) of offense may earn them another deal.

I just hope that the Giants don't pull the thing they did with Pablo "He's our big free agent signing" with Posey and Franchez. It works if you have to fill a position or 2, but with this many holes.... NOT GOING TO FLY WITH ME!

 

[Giantsmojo]

I'd bring back Torres, I think you have to look at this season as a sophomore slump type season even though he's 33. I think he needs to go to a smaller/lighter bat so he doesn't have to start his swing as early and the quicker it will be which should improve his contact rates. Plus he isn't going to command a lot of money and gives Bochy an option off the bench. And just maybe 2011 is the aberration and not 2010.