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Game 4: Umps don't F-up the game; Sox finally don't throw to 3rd base

tabascojet

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DeMuth properly signaled safe while pointing to Joyce and his colleague's obstruction call. Game over. A new terminology entered the World Series lexicon: walkoff obstruction. The Red Sox were still stewing after the game, but here's why their arguments fell apart:

Argument 1: Middlebrooks did not trip Craig intentionally.

End of Argument 1: Doesn't matter. The runner has the right to run the bases unobstructed, regardless of whether the defensive play hinders him intentionally or not.

Argument 2: It wasn't possible for Middlebrooks to get out of Craig's way.

"What was I supposed to do? Army-crawl to second base?" Middlebrooks said. "I wouldn't have done anything different. I don't understand the call."

End of Argument 2: Doesn't matter. The rules specifically refer to a situation in which "an infielder dives at a groundball and the ball passes him, and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner." It's just terrible luck for Middlebrooks, who didn't have the time to get away and happened to raise his feet at precisely the wrong time.

Argument 3: Craig was out of the baseline when the contact occurred, so no obstruction could take place. This was Farrell's biggest beef; he thought Craig veered toward the middle of the field slightly before making his way home.

End of Argument 3: The baseline is not defined by the foul line or even the basepath. It is defined by the direction the runner is headed. In this case Craig had only just begun to head home when he was tripped by Middlebrooks -- and even then he has three feet to each side that defines his area of the basepath. Craig was in his defined basepath when Middlebrooks tripped him.

Argument 4: Craig clearly was out at home plate, so he should not be awarded the base.

End of Argument 4: This is an easy one. An obstruction call does not automatically give the runner a free base. The runner must continue his attempt to get to the next base, and if he is tagged out, it becomes the judgment of the umpire at that next base -- in this case, DeMuth -- to decide if the obstruction prevented him from scoring. In other words, if Craig simply jogged and was tagged out far from home plate -- as Miguel Tejada once did in the playoffs for Oakland -- DeMuth would have called him out. But because Craig was out by only a step or two -- the steps that Middlebrooks' trip cost him -- it was an easy call by DeMuth to award him home plate.

The Red Sox likely never will fully accept the call, not when it decides something as huge as the third game of a World Series that had been tied at one game each.
 

Brocktagon

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how much longer does Ortiz have in the tank? sox have him under contract for 1 more season.
 

RedSoxWorrld

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DeMuth properly signaled safe while pointing to Joyce and his colleague's obstruction call. Game over. A new terminology entered the World Series lexicon: walkoff obstruction. The Red Sox were still stewing after the game, but here's why their arguments fell apart:

Argument 1: Middlebrooks did not trip Craig intentionally.

End of Argument 1: Doesn't matter. The runner has the right to run the bases unobstructed, regardless of whether the defensive play hinders him intentionally or not.

Argument 2: It wasn't possible for Middlebrooks to get out of Craig's way.

"What was I supposed to do? Army-crawl to second base?" Middlebrooks said. "I wouldn't have done anything different. I don't understand the call."

End of Argument 2: Doesn't matter. The rules specifically refer to a situation in which "an infielder dives at a groundball and the ball passes him, and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner." It's just terrible luck for Middlebrooks, who didn't have the time to get away and happened to raise his feet at precisely the wrong time.

Argument 3: Craig was out of the baseline when the contact occurred, so no obstruction could take place. This was Farrell's biggest beef; he thought Craig veered toward the middle of the field slightly before making his way home.

End of Argument 3: The baseline is not defined by the foul line or even the basepath. It is defined by the direction the runner is headed. In this case Craig had only just begun to head home when he was tripped by Middlebrooks -- and even then he has three feet to each side that defines his area of the basepath. Craig was in his defined basepath when Middlebrooks tripped him.

Argument 4: Craig clearly was out at home plate, so he should not be awarded the base.

End of Argument 4: This is an easy one. An obstruction call does not automatically give the runner a free base. The runner must continue his attempt to get to the next base, and if he is tagged out, it becomes the judgment of the umpire at that next base -- in this case, DeMuth -- to decide if the obstruction prevented him from scoring. In other words, if Craig simply jogged and was tagged out far from home plate -- as Miguel Tejada once did in the playoffs for Oakland -- DeMuth would have called him out. But because Craig was out by only a step or two -- the steps that Middlebrooks' trip cost him -- it was an easy call by DeMuth to award him home plate.

The Red Sox likely never will fully accept the call, not when it decides something as huge as the third game of a World Series that had been tied at one game each.

already said

correct call on a stupid rule

nice post, though, explains it all
 

tabascojet

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already said

correct call on a stupid rule

nice post, though, explains it all

seemed like some are still trying to make a case for argument 3. as a non fan of either team, id just like to see it go 7 games. maybe even extra innings then too. Someone has to suffer ultimate heartbreak here.
 

rokketmn

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It is Ross tonight

Sox are 8-1 in the postseason when Gomes starts

Love Victorino but how do you take Gomes out now?

Unfortunately, you take out Nava. If Vic can't go, then no worries.

Something I noticed yesterday that I didn't notice in the prior 3 games(doesn't mean it didn't happen- just that I didn't notice): The Sox looked fired up for a change. After Gomes HR, they were going nuts.

Maybe Papi's speech betwen innings worked? He said after the game that he was just telling the team to play loose, and get back to the way they usually play.
 

rokketmn

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seemed like some are still trying to make a case for argument 3. as a non fan of either team, id just like to see it go 7 games. maybe even extra innings then too. Someone has to suffer ultimate heartbreak here.

For argument 3, I am just stating that if Craig starts along the 3rd base line, he never trips over Middlebrooks. It has nothing to do with being in the baseline or not.

This is also different than Middlebrooks diving for a grounder and just laying there. He was trying to get up and couldn't, as Craig pushed him down. I love Middy's response, though. I didn't know that until now.

I understand the rule and appreciate the effort to clarify, but the rule itself doesn't make sense, and that is my problem.

Picture this: Man on second base, and there is a base hit to CF. The third baseman is standing about a foot behind the bag while the runner approaches 3B. The runner veers to his right in an effort to cut the bag, and makes contact with the 3B and trips. What's the call? By this rule, it would be interference. In reality, the runner had time to see where the third baseman was and alter his route instead of going directly to him.

Not much of a difference to me on either play. Craig wasn't watching where he was going, so how in the hell is Middlebrooks (or anyone else) supposed to know where he is going to go if Craig himself had no idea?

If the umpire can make a determination (judgment call) as to whether or not the player would have scored as he did in your Tejada example, then an upmpire can make that same judgment call as to whether there was intentional interference. They do it football.

That is all I am saying.
 

RedSoxWorrld

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Unfortunately, you take out Nava. If Vic can't go, then no worries.

Something I noticed yesterday that I didn't notice in the prior 3 games(doesn't mean it didn't happen- just that I didn't notice): The Sox looked fired up for a change. After Gomes HR, they were going nuts.

Maybe Papi's speech betwen innings worked? He said after the game that he was just telling the team to play loose, and get back to the way they usually play.

a bunch of them were mad about game 3, whether or not the right call was made

seemed to work last night

weird series, but tense as hell

matheny always looks pissed
 

molsaniceman

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Wonder how Wong feels today?
Been a great series with weird happenings all around
Lester needs to continue his great post season pitching and Sox should take this game:suds:
 

redseat

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Right now you have to go with a healthy Nava over a not 100% Victorino
 

rokketmn

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a bunch of them were mad about game 3, whether or not the right call was made

seemed to work last night

weird series, but tense as hell

matheny always looks pissed

Playing pissed is good too.

I am worried (I know that's your job) facing Wainwright tonight. I can't see the Sox knocking him around again. Lester needs to be on (again).

I was supremely confident the Sox would knock Kelly and Lynn around, and we did neither and only garnered a split instead.

Must win for the Sox, but probably moreso for the Cardinals as they don't want to drop 2 of 3 at home and have to win 2 in Boston.

I guess it's another night of watching the game with a bottle of Tums.
 

rokketmn

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Right now you have to go with a healthy Nava over a not 100% Victorino

I can't argue against that, but it's like Farrell's feelings on Gomes. The team and lineup have a different feel when they are in there. There's more noticeable energy on the field. That is not necessarily a knock on Nava, but he is just wired differently.

Any word yet if Victorino is able to play?
 

RedSoxWorrld

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Playing pissed is good too.

I am worried (I know that's your job) facing Wainwright tonight. I can't see the Sox knocking him around again. Lester needs to be on (again).

I was supremely confident the Sox would knock Kelly and Lynn around, and we did neither and only garnered a split instead.

Must win for the Sox, but probably moreso for the Cardinals as they don't want to drop 2 of 3 at home and have to win 2 in Boston.

I guess it's another night of watching the game with a bottle of Tums.

you too, eh?

i cant sit still during these games
 

redseat

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I can't argue against that, but it's like Farrell's feelings on Gomes. The team and lineup have a different feel when they are in there. There's more noticeable energy on the field. That is not necessarily a knock on Nava, but he is just wired differently.

Any word yet if Victorino is able to play?

Haven't heard anything yet about Shane. I get there is something else with this line-up with him in it but right now this is a pivotal game that the Red Sox can not lose you have to go with a guy with the bat who can actually get a hit. Right now Shane can't really do that.
 

rokketmn

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I had to go back to the Lester avatar for tonight's game. Besides. it is driving me nuts seeing Kayla's picture up there all of the time since I talk so much.
 

redseat

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yes I am very worried about Wainwright tonight. No way he pitches like he did in Game 1 and no way the cardinals make as many mistakes as they did in that game either.
 

RedSoxWorrld

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this thread is deader than Brock's book signing event at Bed, Bath and Beyond

wake up, people!
 

redseat

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this thread is deader than Brock's book signing event at Bed, Bath and Beyond

wake up, people!

I'll be gone in about 5 minutes... Stupid work getting in the way.....

though I've noticed these types of threads have been going downhill in recent weeks
 

rokketmn

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It's the end of the season for many teams. Now there are only 2 teams left, so interest from other posters has waned.

I stop to do some work, come back, and find the same posts still there.

Maybe when the WS is over, we will get a lot of chatter about off-season moves and the boasting about how the 2014 version of the Blue Jays will somehow be better than the 2013 version.
 

Brocktagon

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this thread is deader than Brock's book signing event at Bed, Bath and Beyond

wake up, people!

books? oh, those rectangular things that I rip apart when I run out of toilet paper?
 

Brocktagon

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I'll be gone in about 5 minutes... Stupid work getting in the way.....

though I've noticed these types of threads have been going downhill in recent weeks

October is the busiest month at my company.

and

bigD scares them away :laugh3:
 
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