Few Believed in WVU

[WVUDAD]

You are big on this prior HC experience... aren't you.

Frank had the same amount of coaching experience as Joe Paterno... Tom Osborne... Barry Switzer. All were promoted at their respective schools from coordinator to HC.

Not sure why anyone thinks a HC has to have been a HC somewhere else to say experience matters. Plenty of examples of HC's moving from one HC job to another and failing at their new job.

Kiffen comes immediately to mind...

Kiffen is NOT a very good example of the point you TRY to make, he had a crappy year with the Raiders, one year at UT, and then got the USC job, HARDLY HC experience enough to learn the job.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

Kiffen comes immediately to mind...

Lane Kiffen may have had HC experience, but he had never had a winning season prior to going to USC either... I still don't know what they saw in that guy, other than arrogance.

 

[JIMKOON]

I think we have all seen the successful transition from an asst. coach(coordinator) to head coach quite a few times, but then there are those cases where the failure has been magnified by the level of previous competition those schools had. I hate to judge any coach, but have seen quite a few who just never could adapt to the strain of being in charge of the entire program. It sometimes takes a bit of a jump for an offensive coordinator to understand the defensive side of the game, and vice versa. But the other pitfall for some seems to be the full administration of the team, which requires and ability to have the right people in the right place and direct without micro management. That's not easy for any boss, in any profession, not just sports. It takes a very smart, special person to adapt to that. The ones who do it quickly appear, on the surface, to be more successful, those who don't, well they are not head coaches very long. This is not reserved just for college head coaches either, there are quite a few professional coaches who don't cut the mustard either, even with college head coaching experience. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mad2mc]

Interesting Stats!!...


I am not going to get too carried away....not sure what I really watched on Saturday...WV played well?...or Okie State just laid an egg??...it's fair to ask that question don't you think when you get your ass handed to you by Maryland the week before?.....

Agree. Defense played well this week and I was actually excited to watch the defense play. Okie State receivers dropped wide open looks that did not have anybody around them. Overall, they played well. Light years ahead of last year and still have room for improvement.

Special Teams- I only hold my breath in the punting game. I feel fairly well when it comes to KO coverage and FG kicking game (the kid has a heck of a leg and hopefully he can control it), but the punting game is different. It is fixable and it seems as if DeForrest is fixing it one piece at a time. Poor judgment in whether to field the punt or not (2 bad decisions in the Okie State game). Everything in the punting game can be repaired and repaired quickly.

Can't figure out the clock management at the end of the game. The running game was nonexistent but you have to get the clock running on first down. Wondering if Dana tried to out guess his former mentor? At any rate, need to burn clock at the end of the game. Dana doesn't seem to be a conservative coach by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[bbwvfan]

Do you see the key word there, BB???? There was a HUGE continuity, the staff for each of those you mentioned remained basically the same, so there was not the turnover of the whole staff. For every Paterno you want to mention, there is also a Charlie Weis.

For every Charlie Weis... there is a Bob Stoops.

Or... there is a Chip Kelly.

Or... the list goes... on... and on....

 

[bbwvfan]

Lane Kiffen may have had HC experience, but he had never had a winning season prior to going to USC either... I still don't know what they saw in that guy, other than arrogance.

Actually Lane went 7-5 in his one and only regular season at Tennessee... they lost their bowl game to finish 7-6.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

Actually Lane went 7-5 in his one and only regular season at Tennessee... they lost their bowl game to finish 7-6.

Thanks for the correction. I could have sworn he went 5-7 that year.

 

[bbwvfan]

Cignetti bombed out at WVU with no experience, later became a good coach at a lower level, so yes, prior experience DOES matter, let them learn the HC job at a lower level so we do not have to lose games while they learn the job.

HC experience at any level accounts for shit.

It does not guarantee success at their next job. There are any number of examples I can provide for you if you'd like for me to.

How did Wanstadt do at Pitt? How about Derek Dooley at UT? How about when Coach Dan Hawkins left a successful run at Boise St to take over the Colorado job? How about Rick Neuheisal's move from Colorado to Washington?

 

[bbwvfan]

Cignetti bombed out at WVU with no experience, later became a good coach at a lower level, so yes, prior experience DOES matter, let them learn the HC job at a lower level so we do not have to lose games while they learn the job.

Frank was always considered a hell of a coach. That is why Bobby told Leland Byrd that Frank should be given the HC job when he left for FSU.

Frank had crap to work with... crap facilities... crap money.

You know what you get with crap?

He fought hard to get the new stadium approved. He recruited the kids who later became part of Don Nehlen's early winning.

 

[WVUDAD]

Frank was always considered a hell of a coach. That is why Bobby told Leland Byrd that Frank should be given the HC job when he left for FSU.

Frank had crap to work with... crap facilities... crap money.

You know what you get with crap?

He fought hard to get the new stadium approved. He recruited the kids who later became part of Don Nehlen's early winning.

You are SOOOO right, BB, experience in a job doesnt count for shit. Strange how that has changed in the past three years too, huh????
AS to this post, Bowden won in the same stadium and facilities, gave Cignetti a winning team, so your assertion that he was "a hell of a coach" is pure He LEARNED to be a good head coach at the Div 2 level.

 

[GoldRusher]

On Kiffin:
I think they seen a familiar face that had been with Pete C to appease fans until the sanctions were coming to an end. I cant stand Kiffin but to his defense nobody was gonna succeed there with those sanctions.

As far as what we saw Saturday, I think we seen a battle of two teams still feeling things out. OSU made some of the same mistakes that we have made and still did in that game, we played better but not beautiful by any stretch on offense and the defense which is worlds better than last season made some good plays but just missed being torched a few times as well, special teams were a comedy of errors...again. All things were just typical of a young team, we don't and wont know what to expect from week to week until we gain our identity.

 

[bbwvfan]

You are SOOOO right, BB, experience in a job doesnt count for shit. Strange how that has changed in the past three years too, huh????
AS to this post, Bowden won in the same stadium and facilities, gave Cignetti a winning team, so your assertion that he was "a hell of a coach" is pure He LEARNED to be a good head coach at the Div 2 level.

We have seen coordinators jump to HC and have great success. We have seen coordinators jump to HC and fail.

We have seen HC's from non-AQ schools jump to a HC position of an AQ school and have great success. We have seen other HC's jump from non-AQ to an AQ school and fail.

One's experience as a HC does not guarantee success at his next job. I have no idea why anyone would say differently.

Each situation stands on its own. There are no clear rules... no true formula for success.

I have no idea what you are referring to when it comes to the last three years... maybe you could clarify.

 

[bbwvfan]

I am not so delusional to think that any coach could achieve the kind of success Bobby Bowden achieved at WVU. It took a special coach to achieve the kind of success Bobby achieved.

Frank was a hell of a coach. He wasn't given enough time to prove it. Sometimes when a new AD comes into town... they want their own guy in charge.

I think we saw a repeat of that when Luck took over as well...

 

[JIMKOON]

And the pissing continues, post to post...damnit guys grow up...Bobby Bowden...long gone...Frank Cignetti...long gone...Don Nehlen...long gone...Rich Rodriguez...long gone(thank God)...Bill Stewart...long gone(God rest his soul)...could we please just focus on OUR HEAD COACH today? Or at least change your yellow stained socks?

 

[WVUDAD]

Jim, those who do not study history are doomed to repeat past mistakes. Everyone has a coach or player from the past that they liked better than any other, and it is not improper to remember those days fondly, just as people can talk of what a great player Harris or White was, we can discuss how coaches put their mark on the program. BB, I know it is an exercise in futility, but I have often wondered what if Bowden had not been run out of town.

 

[Slaton10]

For every Charlie Weis... there is a Bob Stoops.

Or... there is a Chip Kelly.

Or... the list goes... on... and on....

I am with BBW on this one....previous HC experience is overated!...see Paul Pasqualoni........


If you look at the pros...there are more coordinators that get the next HC job than recycled HC's..

College HC 's job is about recuiting and relationship building....

 

[bbwvfan]

Jim, those who do not study history are doomed to repeat past mistakes. Everyone has a coach or player from the past that they liked better than any other, and it is not improper to remember those days fondly, just as people can talk of what a great player Harris or White was, we can discuss how coaches put their mark on the program. BB, I know it is an exercise in futility, but I have often wondered what if Bowden had not been run out of town.

I grew up with Bowden's youngest children. I don't believe he was run out of town. He was a southern boy, and FSU was going to pay him a handsome salary to come back to be their HC.

I know the whole effigy story, but he and his family were loved in Morgantown.

Had he stayed and finished his career at WVU, I would think we'd have competed pretty well against PSU, Pitt and SU for supremacy in the East.

I grew up with the Cignetti family as well. Curt was a year ahead of me, and Frank's daughter Lisa was a really close friend of my sister's. Part of the unique experience of growing up in Motown.

 

[JIMKOON]

My wife and I knew the Bowden's and Cignetti's also in years past, all very good people. But, I'm sorry, their accomplishments, or even lack there of, having nothing to do with today, and WVUDAD, get over yourself please, this is football, not war, not government, it is a GAME, played on a field, by young men of talent, and every different period has it's ups and downs, and using the numbers on the field will never drawn an ounce of history close to pertinent to the team on that field right now, today, because we have no way to measure the difference in the personalities, none, and other than our determined humble opinion(and bullshit) you cannot, and have not pointed out a single FACT above your rather accusatory spew of hate for all things Luck and Holgerson. I call you out to. Lay some hardline facts of your verbal tirades. Give me backup articles by honest people as to the what, where and how that you continue to just piss people off with. Debate based on bullshit, is bullshit.

 

[DCWV4life]

Check out DH's presser from today, very good....I like what he is saying about the Baylor coach because that is what i feel about DH....I think he is going to build this program, we are going to start replacing guys with other roster guys not JC guys(not that JC guys are bad)...we are building up our facilities...and I see nothing but god things down the road. My opinion, but I still feel we are watching DH grow and that is going to pay off for us.

 

[GoldRusher]

I think he is going to build this program, we are going to start replacing guys with other roster guys not JC guys(not that JC guys are bad)...we are building up our facilities...and I see nothing but god things down the road. My opinion, but I still feel we are watching DH grow and that is going to pay off for us.




Same here UNLESS Texas comes and gets Luck and then Luck hires "his guy" in Austin. And I don't want to even THINK about Texas having thoughts of leaving the B12 with Ollies conference jumping experience .