FA fits for Denver and some interesting draft pks

[randymon]

There`s a few guys out there ( fa`s) that could be available that I think would be big upgrades for Denver or fit a need with the potential ones the Broncos may let hit market. Iupati, D. Williams, J. Worilds, R.Hudson,J. Hughes and either te,O.Daniels or James Casey. Couple intriguing draft pks that I`ve read about range from rd 1-3 mostly. First is Gerod Holliman S from Lousiville. When I saw his stats I thought it must of been a typeO. 14 ints??? Why haven`t I heard of this guy? They say he is poor tackler but if you want a ball hawk.....Wow! That`s mind boggling IMO. Could be a steal in 3rd rd maybe? Another S from Syracuse that has raised eyebrows is Darell Eskridge. Couple others guys that seem very interesting are.. B.J. Finney C from Kansas St. ( great footwork and lateral movement,needs strentgh conditioning),Eric Goldman DT from Florida St and TJ Clemmings T from Pittsburg is highly thought of as well ( late 1st or 2nd) Just throwing some stuff out there cause I`am gettin reved up for Fa and draft

 

[cdumler7]

All good players to keep an eye on.

Few things on a few of these guys...First off the reason Holliman is not a top-10 pick is because he seriously is that bad at tackling. As great of a ball hawk as he is he is probably the worst tackler I have ever watched on film. I am not exaggerating that either. And that part of his game is probably only going to get worse when he goes against NFL talent. So if he doesn't get the interception on those deep balls then good chance that guy is going for a touchdown. He is probably the last guy I want the Broncos to draft in this entire draft class. You have to remember that Rahim Moore coming out of college was a ball hawk as well and well that didn't work out too well for us. He ended up becoming more known as a great tackler than an actual great coverage guy.

A guy to maybe check out that I like in the late rounds is that of Eric Rowe of Utah. He is 6'1" and played both safety and corner in college. For some reason these are the type of guys that I like as those who have played Corner then play safety seem to understand how to cover a bit better. He is also a very good tackler and plays some of his best football in that zone coverage from the safety position.

Finney, Goldman, and Clemmings are all guys I like. Clemmings is very raw but the potential is off the charts for this guy. Most likely doesn't make it to our 1st round pick though.

FA there are a few guys I really want the Broncos to look at. Probably my top 3 at this time are Rodney Hudson, Clint Boling, and Jordan Cameron. I think if we got Boling and Hudson we would have a very good OL with the potential to be the best in the NFL if Schofield has developed into a quality starter. Cameron is a guy that I think with the Broncos and especially with Manning could turn into an even better TE than that of J. Thomas. He offers a lot more between the 20's and is a better blocker. Both have the same issues of being able to stay healthy but Cameron seems to enjoy football more and has the drive to want to be great.

 

[Duffman]

With the Pats not using the tag on McCourty I could see Denver making him an offer. Imagine a backfield with Talib, Harris, Ward & McCourty.

 

[randymon]

Yeah CD,regarding Holliman your right about the tackling issues. I didn`t elaborate more on it but they def said was a big prob. The one thing to prob look into with this guy is if he`s afraid of contact or just has terrible tackling fundementals and hasn`t been coached up well. If it`s the former then he would certainly never pan out in the NFL. If it`s the latter, maybe he can be coached and improved upon. A guy like that who has a nose for the football like he does would certainly be a total waste if he was afraid of contact. I like Cameron alot as far as a all around very talented Te but the fact that he seems to be made of glass leaves me to question whether he would be an asset if he can`t stay on the field. He certainly has the makings to be a great te if in a. Love to get either Hudson or Boling. Ya never know. I hope Schofield has really impressed as of late and their confident that he can become a legitimate starter this yr and really help shore up that line. Although I`ve heard of Rowe,I need to ck him out. Your point about Db to Safety is spot on. Makes a big dif in reading coverages, anticipation and being in right position that comes with db expierience. Easier to transition from Db to safety than the other way around. The latter pretty much never happens.

 

[randymon]

With the Pats not using the tag on McCourty I could see Denver making him an offer. Imagine a backfield with Talib, Harris, Ward & McCourty.

The fact that they tagged the kicker points to they are prob real close to a long term with McCourty otherwise they would certainly have tagged him instead of S.G

 

[cdumler7]

With Holliman I think what I noticed was a combination of the two. He has terrible tackling form as he just does not know how to break down when a ball carrier is coming at him but at the same time he looks like he is afraid of contact. So while I think he can get a bit better at the tackling part of his game there is always going to be that fear side that makes him hesitant and in the NFL that just won't work.

The McCourty situation is an interesting one. From the sound of it the Patriots haven't even reached out to him to talk about a contract at this point so I don't think they have a long-term deal in mind at this time. Looks like they are going to let him test FA and see what happens. As for the Broncos signing him...my biggest issue is the idea of spending that much money on our secondary. We already have Talib, Harris, and Ward making pretty decent money. Seems like an awful lot of money to put into our secondary if you then add a $9-10 million a year Safety to the bunch. I'm actually getting more and more excited about the idea of Webster getting his shot at the FS spot. The dude can fly, is a great tackler, decent in coverage, and just seems to have the attitude of a safety. Like I've said before Corners that are converted to safety have a very good chance at being successful as they understand coverage a whole heck of a lot more than just a pure safety in my opinion. Heck some of the best safeties in the NFL right now are converted corners. Jarius Byrd when he first came into the league was a Corner. Devon McCourty the very guy we are talking about was a 1st round draft pick at the Corner position.

 

[randymon]

With Holliman I think what I noticed was a combination of the two. He has terrible tackling form as he just does not know how to break down when a ball carrier is coming at him but at the same time he looks like he is afraid of contact. So while I think he can get a bit better at the tackling part of his game there is always going to be that fear side that makes him hesitant and in the NFL that just won't work.

The McCourty situation is an interesting one. From the sound of it the Patriots haven't even reached out to him to talk about a contract at this point so I don't think they have a long-term deal in mind at this time. Looks like they are going to let him test FA and see what happens. As for the Broncos signing him...my biggest issue is the idea of spending that much money on our secondary. We already have Talib, Harris, and Ward making pretty decent money. Seems like an awful lot of money to put into our secondary if you then add a $9-10 million a year Safety to the bunch. I'm actually getting more and more excited about the idea of Webster getting his shot at the FS spot. The dude can fly, is a great tackler, decent in coverage, and just seems to have the attitude of a safety. Like I've said before Corners that are converted to safety have a very good chance at being successful as they understand coverage a whole heck of a lot more than just a pure safety in my opinion. Heck some of the best safeties in the NFL right now are converted corners. Jarius Byrd when he first came into the league was a Corner. Devon McCourty the very guy we are talking about was a 1st round draft pick at the Corner position.

Hey "Papa"! Still not believing they`ll let him test but I agree with the talent Denver has back there and the potential for Webter to excell at S, McCourty would just be too expensive and I`d rather see Denver focus more on the O-line and LB positions. Love to have the guy without a doubt but I just don`t think the payday for McCourty would out weigh the other needs Denver has on the table. IMO of course

 

[cdumler7]

To me it would depend what all happens over the next few days. We should know the Manning contract situation in the next few days so we will have a better idea of how much Cap room we have to spend. We also might know more on the D. Thomas situation of whether some teams might be interested in actually doing the trade 2 1st round picks for him with the Franchise Tag.

I ran this by somebody the other day and I will put it out there today in I know Suh is expecting to get a huge deal and probably will in the $15-16 million range. Imagine though the Broncos do get D. Thomas traded for 2 1st round picks. Which would you rather have DT or Suh and 2 1st round picks plus having spent just a few more million a year on Suh compared to DT. This is a very deep WR class so then having 2 1st round picks means we can draft one of the top tier guys in this draft. This would mean having some premier players at linebacker, Defensive line, and Corner for the defense while also adding some much needed talent through the draft for the offense.

 

[DownSetHutch]

(Suh + 2 1st-rd draft picks - $2 mil) > DT. Easy math there. We would be better off keeping Pot Roast for less than $10 mil than paying $15 mil for Suh though. Saving the money on DT's contract doesn't mean we need to spend it on Suh. I wouldn't rather see us keep Franklin and Pot Roast if we had the extra money.

 

[randymon]

I really think DT is better than Dez Bryant or any other wr out there and he is only going to get better. He is a model teammate and employee on the field and off the field as well. I wouldn`t trade him for anybody. Guys like him are rare IMO and Suh or draft pks, no matter how many #1`s, are not as close to a guarantee as DT in my book anyway. I really believe he will be a HOF one day. That`s my humble opinion

 

[DownSetHutch]

* I would rather see us keep Franklin and Pot Roast.... Damn typos.

Randymon, to your point, DT is a hell of a receiver and I would like to see him be a Bronco for life, but 2 1st round picks is a huge compensation. It's a tough call to say which has more value. I think it depends on where in the 1st round those 2 picks are.

I'm betting he remains with the Broncos when all is said and done.

 

[TDs3nOut]

A little late to the party, since this was published a few days ago, but according to Woody Paige, PM will rework his deal and pass his physical this week: Paige: Peyton Manning deal will be done this week - The Denver Post

As far as McCourty goes, I agree that he is probably too expensive. As for Suh, talented as he is, I would have to hold my nose to see him in a Broncos uni.

 

[cdumler7]

* I would rather see us keep Franklin and Pot Roast.... Damn typos.

Randymon, to your point, DT is a hell of a receiver and I would like to see him be a Bronco for life, but 2 1st round picks is a huge compensation. It's a tough call to say which has more value. I think it depends on where in the 1st round those 2 picks are.

I'm betting he remains with the Broncos when all is said and done.

I agree keeping Potroast and Franklin might be a better way to spend the money than on Suh. I was just showing the value of what it would mean if we did get the 2 1st round picks for a trade of DT. Really it is a trade where at worst I think we would break even and at best set the organization up for the next 4 years. I am one that I would pull the trigger. I love DT let me get that out first. He is a great player on the field as well as off the field for this team and that seems rare to find these days. So he is valuable to this organization for sure. At the same time though I am one that doesn't believe in paying a WR over $10 million a year. The position is so dependent on the quarterback being good that I just think you can still have a great team say having 3 receivers making $5 million each a year rather that 1 making $15 million a year. So the fact that DT is wanting $15 million a year just doesn't sit right especially considering he went on national tv and said the Broncos would get a discount...So does that mean he thinks that he is worth more than Calvin Johnson but is still to take less than him as the home town discount? I just don't like that one bit. Throw in just last week he went on tv again and said it is not about the money for him but he just wants enough to take care of his family and hire his family a good lawyer to help out his mom and grandma. Well I think $13 million a year (what the Broncos offered) does that pretty darn well.

Anyway like you said DSH in this kind of deal and money could mean getting Potroast, Franklin, and 2 1st round picks. That is 4 possible key players for pretty much the same value as that of DT. I think it becomes worth it if that is the case.

 

[randymon]

You make some very good points CD. I agree that it doesn`t matter how good your wr is if he doesn`t have a great QB throwing him the ball and I agree that too much money is spent on these " elite" suppossedly wr`s. That said, there`s much to be said about talents like DT that have the speed, have the ability to understand and perform the great technique needed to run great routes and have good chemistry with the QB,etc. Prob DT wouldn`t be as successful with out Manning or some of the other greats out there but also think it`s hard to find a wr of his caliber in the FA or the draft. It is to bad that that type of money is being given to these guys but don`t see that not continuing in the NFL anytime soon. I do agree though that the choice between 2 firsts and possibly more and giving that kind of money to one guy that his succsess is do largely to the guy throwing him the ball, is one to ponder and weigh the potential for the future of a team. Good job Bud

 

[TDs3nOut]

Former Bronco Chris Meyers was cut by Houston. Seems to me that he is a likely target to bring back to Denver.

Also, Manning's restructured contract is apparently pretty much a done deal. Supposed to reduce his salary this year by about $4 million, so I guess it frees up about that same amount in cap space.

 

[DownSetHutch]

To put some perspective on the DT contract negotiations, Peyton Manning and the Broncos have reportedly agreed on a $4 mil/year pay cut, putting Peyton at $15 mil/year.

Under no circumstance should a WR make as much as a QB, especially when that QB is one of the best in the league.

Maybe DT and his agent will consider this before their next meeting with the team. It's kind of hard to ignore.

 

[DownSetHutch]

Former Bronco Chris Meyers was cut by Houston. Seems to me that he is a likely target to bring back to Denver.

Also, Manning's restructured contract is apparently pretty much a done deal. Supposed to reduce his salary this year by about $4 million, so I guess it frees up about that same amount in cap space.

I saw that TDs, and I was thinking the same thing.

Dude's got some guns!

 

[TDs3nOut]

I saw that TDs, and I was thinking the same thing.

Dude's got some guns!

LOL I'm not particularly knowledgeable about OL play, but presumably his experience in the zone blocking scheme might also come in handy! Pretty sure we let him go when McD went away from that, and Myers started every game in Houston for the past seven years. Seems like a natural fit for our need at center, though I think he played mostly guard when he was in Denver.

 

[cdumler7]

Myers did come to the Broncos as a guard. If you actually look around the NFL there are a decent number of Centers in the league that started out as guards but just moved on over. I think Myers would be a decent signing depending on the money. HE did grade out as the 3rd best run blocking Center in the NFL but stunk it up in the pass protection department. If we sign him I'm hoping it is with the idea of him being more of a depth guy to push a rookie and train them up than for him to come here with the actual idea of him starting. I don't doubt that he could start for us but I'm also not looking for a guy to come in that can't pass block as that is what we had last year from the OL and well it cost us a big chance at a Super Bowl in my opinion.

Some other big names hitting the open market now. I'm not sure the NFLPA had this quite in mind when they signed the last CBA in this many players being cut flooding the FA market. It does look like Vince Wilfork will be hitting the open market. Now while he is getting up in age he was one of the best against the run from the DT/NT position in the NFL this past season.

Another big name guy possibly hitting the open market is that of Ngata of the Ravens. These are two of the best NT's of the last 20 years in the NFL both hitting the market at the same time. Really this only helps the Broncos in the sense that the more talent there is at one position the less you usually have to pay as you can go to one of them and say "hey we will pay you this much" and if they say no then you just tell them "well then we will just take that offer to the other 5 guys at your position with similar talent and see if one of them will accept it."

Anyway I think this next Tuesday could be a whirlwind.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Myers did come to the Broncos as a guard. If you actually look around the NFL there are a decent number of Centers in the league that started out as guards but just moved on over. I think Myers would be a decent signing depending on the money. HE did grade out as the 3rd best run blocking Center in the NFL but stunk it up in the pass protection department. If we sign him I'm hoping it is with the idea of him being more of a depth guy to push a rookie and train them up than for him to come here with the actual idea of him starting. I don't doubt that he could start for us but I'm also not looking for a guy to come in that can't pass block as that is what we had last year from the OL and well it cost us a big chance at a Super Bowl in my opinion.

Some other big names hitting the open market now. I'm not sure the NFLPA had this quite in mind when they signed the last CBA in this many players being cut flooding the FA market. It does look like Vince Wilfork will be hitting the open market. Now while he is getting up in age he was one of the best against the run from the DT/NT position in the NFL this past season.

Another big name guy possibly hitting the open market is that of Ngata of the Ravens. These are two of the best NT's of the last 20 years in the NFL both hitting the market at the same time. Really this only helps the Broncos in the sense that the more talent there is at one position the less you usually have to pay as you can go to one of them and say "hey we will pay you this much" and if they say no then you just tell them "well then we will just take that offer to the other 5 guys at your position with similar talent and see if one of them will accept it."

Anyway I think this next Tuesday could be a whirlwind.

Interesting info on Myers. Didn't realize that he was so poor in pass protection. Perhaps he's not a player we should pursue.

Definitely agree with your last sentence. Broncos have been very active in free agency ever since Elway's been in charge. Given that, our cap space, and all of the players available, I fully expect that we'll again be very aggressive. Wilfork and Ngata are definitely two of the most interesting potential targets.