Series Thread: ECF: Boston Celtics vs Cleveland Cavs

[AlpacaWine]

Meaning what?
Are you watching whats going on?
Unless you are willing to pay unlimited luxury tax down the road, which im guessing isnt the case, then you are putting yourself in a postion to only fail if you have +/- 60M/year tied up in Horford/IT.

Yes I am. Are you?

The two guys you just shit on are the two guys who just carried their team to the ECF.

Not John Wall and Bradley Beal. Not Jimmy Butler and Dwyane Wade. Not Giannis Antetokounmpo, Paul George or any other now or potential max contract guy bubbling around the east. Certainly not Dragic and Whiteside.

Call me old-school, but I still think the scoreboard matters more than the stat sheet.

 

[AlpacaWine]

Celts should go for Hayward #1, Butler #2 but do everything and anything they can to get both.
George seems hell bent on L.A..

Getting both makes absolutely no sense. Not logistically from an asset surrender perspective. Not for long term salary perspective. Not for team-building perspective.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Yes I am. Are you?

The two guys you just shit on are the two guys who just carried their team to the ECF.

Not John Wall and Bradley Beal. Not Jimmy Butler and Dwyane Wade. Not Giannis Antetokounmpo, Paul George or any other now or potential max contract guy bubbling around the east. Certainly not Dragic and Whiteside.

Call me old-school, but I still think the scoreboard matters more than the stat sheet.

I said they arent max players.
If thats shitting on them IYO, then so be it.
If you want a 30 year old, 5 7" as your guy, cool with me.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Getting both makes absolutely no sense. Not logistically from an asset surrender perspective. Not for long term salary perspective. Not for team-building perspective.

Id usually be interested in your reasoning, but Ill pass.
You go at it with Horford/IT all u want.

 

[AlpacaWine]

Also, if they were to give IT max money? there would only be 2 overlap years with Horford's deal. They'd basically have one season to see what they've got and then Horford would be an expiring contract at the end of year two.

If they trade for Butler or Hayward and give them max deals, they can give IT max money on his bird rights.

That would give you 3 seasons of those guys as your big 3 and they'd still have Fultz and Brown coming up through the system ready to hit their stride around 2020. .

This is course would hinge on my belief that the only way the Celtics would trade for either of those guys would be using the 2018 Brooklyn pick. Not this years.

 

[AlpacaWine]

I said they arent max players.
If thats shitting on them IYO, then so be it.
If you want a 30 year old, 5 7" as your guy, cool with me.

And that's just not the way the NBA works.

If you're the Celtics and you don't pay either or those guys, what do you do with your money? Overpay mid-tier guys like Amir Johnson or Jeff Green and struggle to win 40 games every year? You think that Anthony Davis or Kevin Durant are just sitting around waiting for the Celtics money?

No. So you build the best team you can with the resources you have. Who cares if Thomas isn't a superstar talent. There is enough money to go around where you can afford to give a guy like him big money.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Also, if they were to give IT max money? there would only be 2 overlap years with Horford's deal. They'd basically have one season to see what they've got and then Horford would be an expiring contract at the end of year two.

If they trade for Butler or Hayward and give them max deals, they can give IT max money on his bird rights.

That would give you 3 seasons of those guys as your big 3 and they'd still have Fultz and Brown coming up through the system ready to hit their stride around 2020. .

This is course would hinge on my belief that the only way the Celtics would trade for either of those guys would be using the 2018 Brooklyn pick. Not this years.

That goes back to my original comment on luxury tax.
If you are willing to pay a ton of tax, then keep them all.
Of the 4, I'd weigh Horford 3, IT 4 as far as needed vs cost moving forward.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

And that's just not the way the NBA works.

If you're the Celtics and you don't pay either or those guys, what do you do with your money? Overpay mid-tier guys like Amir Johnson or Jeff Green and struggle to win 40 games every year? You think that Anthony Davis or Kevin Durant are just sitting around waiting for the Celtics money?

No. So you build the best team you can with the resources you have. Who cares if Thomas isn't a superstar talent. There is enough money to go around where you can afford to give a guy like him big money.

My gut says the price will level out on the 'next level' of player.
You cant overpay players like you named either.
Cavs/Warriors arent going anywhere, anytime soon.
Invest in the players in their mid 20's, not guys nearing or past 30.

 

[tlance]

Look. The IT hype was getting a bit overblown, but I am a bit appalled that so many on here are talking crap about him.

He lost his sister before the first game of the playoffs. He got his tooth knocked out in game 1 against the Wizards and he tore a muscle in his hip during game 6. He played through all of this until the Celtics were down 40 at halftime in game 2. Their season was over at that moment.

How anybody can question this dude's toughness is beyond me.

 

[AlpacaWine]

My gut says the price will level out on the 'next level' of player.
You cant overpay players like you named either.
Cavs/Warriors arent going anywhere, anytime soon.
Invest in the players in their mid 20's, not guys nearing or past 30.

The Cavs are just about done and the Warriors are in another conference.

And just because there are better teams out there doesn't mean that you stop trying to win.

What did you enjoy more, last season where the Heat didn't win a title, but won some playoff games and entertained their fans. Or this year, where they crapped all over themselves and missed the playoffs?

I know the answer, as I recently read you telling us about how great the Heat would have done vs Cleveland.

Not sure that makes Waiters, Dragic or Whiteside max contract players.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Look. The IT hype was getting a bit overblown, but I am a bit appalled that so many on here are talking crap about him.

He lost his sister before the first game of the playoffs. He got his tooth knocked out in game 1 against the Wizards and he tore a muscle in his hip during game 6. He played through all of this until the Celtics were down 40 at halftime in game 2. Their season was over at that moment.

How anybody can question this dude's toughness is beyond me.

I wasnt one of them.
Matter of fact, I was the first to defend.
Hes still not getting a max from me unless hes my 4th best player.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

The Cavs are just about done and the Warriors are in another conference.

And just because there are better teams out there doesn't mean that you stop trying to win.

What did you enjoy more, last season where the Heat didn't win a title, but won some playoff games and entertained their fans. Or this year, where they crapped all over themselves and missed the playoffs?

I know the answer, as I recently read you telling us about how great the Heat would have done vs Cleveland.

Not sure that makes Waiters, Dragic or Whiteside max contract players.

Ill take this years team for $500 Alex.
LOVE this group and how they competed.

 

[AlpacaWine]

Ill take this years team for $500 Alex.
LOVE this group and how they competed.

I don't believe you.

 

[Black Adam]

I don't believe you.

i don't see why not. yes, their record wasn't dazzling by any means, but they played their asses off every game, ESPECIALLY when adversity hit them. i'd love to MY team play their hearts out like that...

 

[DorianRo]

Thomas, Melo, George aren't work Max ANYWHERE. Thomas is a 3rd fiddle at best. Melo's achievement speaks for themselves. CLOWN. As does George. His playoff disappearing acts in must win games are monumental. Investing in these guys you're just throwing money down a toilet.

The only one is maybe Butler and even hes questionable because his attitude is iffy


Theres just too much money being thrown at unproven player or career FAILURES.

 

[AlpacaWine]

Thomas, Melo, George aren't work Max ANYWHERE. Thomas is a 3rd fiddle at best. Melo's achievement speaks for themselves. CLOWN. As does George. His playoff disappearing acts in must win games are monumental. Investing in these guys you're just throwing money down a toilet.

The only one is maybe Butler and even hes questionable because his attitude is iffy

Ummm, what?

 

[DorianRo]

Ummm, what?

For the most recent look no further than that monumental blown lead against the Cavs or Game 4 in Round 1 this year. Hes not worth the money. Hes also SLOW. Seems like all his moves on the court are in slow motion. Hes even slow to get rid of the ball before the double team

They are just not reliable players to warrant a max deal

 

[AlpacaWine]

For the most recent look no further than that monumental blown lead against the Cavs or Game 4 in Round 1 this year. Hes not worth the money. Hes also SLOW. Seems like all his moves on the court are in slow motion. Hes even slow to get rid of the ball before the double team

They are just not reliable players to warrant a max deal

Yeah.

You might want to go check out his post-season game logs. Having a couple notable bad elimination games doesn't erase way more good ones.

 

[Heatles84]

take a lesson from Richard Jefferson-

Beal and the Wizards lost Game 7 of their second-round series against Celtics on Monday. As you can imagine, the Cavaliers didn't think highly of his comments. Cleveland forward Richard Jefferson called Washington a "very good team," but strongly said that he was out of line.

"It seems like the teams that are at home now want to start talking," Jefferson said. "Dion Waiters was saying that nobody wanted to see the Miami Heat, nobody wants to see the Miami Heat. Then Bradley Beal says nobody wants to [see the Wizards]. Well, if no one does, then show up. If you get there, then prove it.

I agree to an extent. Miami was hot after a disastrous start to the season and we lost on a tie breaker to the Bulls for the final playoff spot. Given how Cleveland's playing and....well they have Lebron, Cleveland would've won. But I think Miami/Chicago would've been Cleveland's "toughest" test in the East. It's great to wonder what if Waiters didn't injure his ankle which caused him to miss the rest of the season - but it's a what if.

Beal on the other hand should shut the fuck up. You really can't talk shit when the team going to go on and faced the Cavs just beat you to get there. Washington would've been the better match up for sure, but it was there job to get by Boston.

 

[AlpacaWine]

I agree to an extent. Miami was hot after a disastrous start to the season and we lost on a tie breaker to the Bulls for the final playoff spot. Given how Cleveland's playing and....well they have Lebron, Cleveland would've won. But I think Miami/Chicago would've been Cleveland's "toughest" test in the East. It's great to wonder what if Waiters didn't injure his ankle which caused him to miss the rest of the season - but it's a what if.

Beal on the other hand should shut the fuck up. You really can't talk shit when the team going to go on and faced the Cavs just beat you to get there. Washington would've been the better match up for sure, but it was there job to get by Boston.

Miami would have gotten swept by the Celtics.