Series Thread: Eastern Conference Finals: 1) Cleveland Cavaliers (57-25) vs. 2) Toronto Raptors (56-26)

[Heatles84]

I want a title, I might be greedy but when you come this far like last year....it's a title.

Shane, I'm not surprised you grasp this concept and Wiggy doesn't.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Sure. I see where you're coming from. But I'm of the mindset of meeting goals. How is your team going to feel after the season is done? Wade and Bosh are vacationing right now. As it relates to team goals, they can discuss and said the Heat did "okay" (I'm not using the Bosh injury as an excuse, we could've made the ECF and were in a decent position to do so).

If Cleveland or Golden St. loses, a week or two after the season Lebron, Curry, or both are going to have that stark reality that they missed out on a chance to win a title as their respective teams were built for a shot to win and that was the expectations for heading into the year.

Who cares about meeting goals? yes, it is good to build a team but when you have a veteran team that wants to win I don't buy they are satisfied if they get one round closer and never win...just an example. It's title or bust but like I said different teams/players have different expectations.

That being said, Lebron, I know, wants a title and nothing else and everyone else on the Cavs does as well. Irving said it last night. I also think a lot of other players were disappointed about not getting closer to the title, their expectations just weren't as high, that's all.

 

[Heatles84]

I dunno whose argument I am supporting here but after over 40+ wins in a row at home.....

the way the Spurs playoff run ended, I will not look back on this as a great season in Spurs basketball history.

I'll take your success over the last 20 years over any other team. I'm proud of the Heat's success, but yours (Spurs) is better. But yes, you see the point that's being made as well. Spurs probably had their best regular season of all-time, yet didn't win the title. Hence, not a good year.

 

[Heatles84]

Who cares about meeting goals? yes, it is good to build a team but when you have a veteran team that wants to win I don't buy they are satisfied if they get one round closer and never win...just an example. It's title or bust but like I said different teams/players have different expectations.

That being said, Lebron, I know, wants a title and nothing else and everyone else on the Cavs. Irving said it last night.

Exactly.

But let's put things into perspective. Heat weren't going to win a title. If they somehow did this year, a shit ton of injuries occurred to other teams. The Heat, along with teams like the Clippers, Grizz, etc. were 2nd tier title contenders. Not first tier like Dubs, Spurs, Cavs, and even OKC (were borderline 1st/2nd tier).

 

[Shanemansj13]

Exactly.

But let's put things into perspective. Heat weren't going to win a title. If they somehow did this year, a shit ton of injuries occurred to other teams. The Heat, along with teams like the Clippers, Grizz, etc. were 2nd tier title contenders. Not first tier like Dubs, Spurs, Cavs, and even OKC (were borderline 1st/2nd tier).

Well that happens. Like last year, the Cavs wanted a title. I don't think not winning a title, in their first year together, was a failure but then injuries happen and it wasn't realistic but still possible. Along the season things change.

But I disagree about the Heat, I think they were 1st tier but that is will a lot of things pending. Bosh, obviously and Whiteside and other guys playing to their potential, so I guess I agree with you lol.

 

[Heatles84]

Well that happens. Like last year, the Cavs wanted a title. I don't think not winning a title, in their first year together, was a failure but then injuries happen and it wasn't realistic but still possible. Along the season things change.

But I disagree about the Heat, I think they were 1st tier but that is will a lot of things pending. Bosh, obviously and Whiteside and other guys playing to their potential, so I guess I agree with you lol.

You have a point. We like to use the concept that injuries aren't an excuse. Had Love and Irving been healthy, then last season was a huge bust given the talent advantage you have/had while the Warriors also being on new ground as well being in their first Finals. It's simply a failure because title was the goal, but you're not judged as harshly on it.

This season, if you stay healthy is a completely different story.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I dunno whose argument I am supporting here but after over 40+ wins in a row at home.....

the way the Spurs playoff run ended, I will not look back on this as a great season in Spurs basketball history.

This guy gets it.

That record, the free agent signings, the media and fans pencilling them in to the WCF before a single game has been played...

Good, not great, Season.

 

[Shanemansj13]

You have a point. We like to use the concept that injuries aren't an excuse. Had Love and Irving been healthy, then last season was a huge bust given the talent advantage you have/had while the Warriors also being on new ground as well being in their first Finals. It's simply a failure because title was the goal, but you're not judged as harshly on it.

This season, if you stay healthy is a completely different story.

Exactly, it isn't an excuse it's just the facts. IF they were healthy they would have had a better shot at winning it all. I have no doubt that if Bosh was healthy, Cleveland would be playing them right now. So injuries aren't used an excuse just reality.

 

[RobToxin]

On the other hand, the Raptors have never gotten this far in their history. So, even if they lose Game 6 by 30, this is an amazing season if you are a Raptor fan.

Depending on who you are, expectations do make a season different for each team.

Even if Toronto loses the Conference Finals in 6 games, nobody is going to shit on them and say they were a failure.

However, if Golden State loses in 6 to OKC (or 5). they are going to get destroyed in public opinion as being an absolute failure.

 

[bksballer89]

http://sportshoop.la/threads/major-update-to-vbookie-poster-vs-poster-bets.209180/

 

[WiggyRuss]

Shane, I'm not surprised you grasp this concept and Wiggy doesn't.

your any team in the NBA ypu are judged on the same scale

just because your GM sucks doesnt mean you play on a curve.

EVERYONE plays under the same exact set of rules


like the Wizards--- did they "underacheieve"- or was everyone just WRONG...just like they were about a Spurs/GSW Western Conference NBA Finals.....its all bullshit.

Ill guarantee you people with your warped mentality would have called that Lakers team with Kobe, Dwight, Nash and Gasol a "title or bust team".....

 

[Heatles84]

your any team in the NBA ypu are judged on the same scale

just because your GM sucks doesnt mean you play on a curve.

EVERYONE plays under the same exact set of rules


like the Wizards--- did they "underacheieve"- or was everyone just WRONG...just like they were about a Spurs/GSW Western Conference NBA Finals.....its all bullshit.

Ill guarantee you people with your warped mentality would have called that Lakers team with Kobe, Dwight, Nash and Gasol a "title or bust team".....

You can say I have a warped mentality all you want. I'll take that over a participation trophy mindset where everyone's considered a winner - even last place.

Not every GM sucks because their respective team didn't win. Some times ping balls fall your way and you have a once in a generation-type player want to come back home. Injuries happen. Retirements happen. Shit just happens.

You continue to try and spin it how you want. Even other Cavs fans recognize that if the Cavs don't win, it was a bust of a season. Same with Golden St. And at this point, same with OKC.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

your any team in the NBA ypu are judged on the same scale

just because your GM sucks doesnt mean you play on a curve.

EVERYONE plays under the same exact set of rules


like the Wizards--- did they "underacheieve"- or was everyone just WRONG...just like they were about a Spurs/GSW Western Conference NBA Finals.....its all bullshit.

Ill guarantee you people with your warped mentality would have called that Lakers team with Kobe, Dwight, Nash and Gasol a "title or bust team".....

Interesting point of view.

Does his GM suck and should be considered a failure because his Team didn't win?

If so, what does that make the GM who spends $108mil and still doesn't win?

Or

Is his GM a failure because he lost, at the time, the best player in the NBA, which took him out of the title hunt?

Again: what does that make the GM who landed that same guy, traded for Love, Shump, JR, signed Tristan and Kyrie......

But, still didn't win the Finals?

I think as a fan of the Team with the 2nd highest payroll, 2 top 10 player, a top 5 Center and another early round tap out, that my GM sucks a big, black, sick dick.

 

[trojanfan12]

Why does this gif make me so happy?

Cuz it's funny.

 

[trojanfan12]

@the Cavs having a trophy case full of these and Cavs fans thinking it's awesome:

 

[trojanfan12]

seriously

no one in their right mind goes back and looks at this season 10 years from now and go- ya know- Portland had a more succesful year than the Cavs because they overachieved their expectations. I mena NO ONE expected them to get to the 2nd round....they were WAY better than the Thunder team that got to Game 7 and lost to the Cavs....

Thats just not how sports works. No fan in their right mind would prefer Portland's season over the Thunder's.

Because in 10 years, no one will remember Portland's season, so the comparison won't be made. What people will remember is that the team with the highest payroll and best player in the game, couldn't get the job done when it mattered most...again.

 

[trojanfan12]

If the Heat never won a title in the 4 years they had the big 3 yet made it to the Finals every year - it's a bust, and an epic one at that. The years that Miami didn't win it (2011 and 2014) are busts. That roster was built to win a title every year. Same as OKC and San Antonio as well as the Pacers, Celtics, and Bulls in select years. All of the teams mentioned had bust years because they didn't win.

I remember 2 things about the Lakers season when they had the 4 Hall of Famers lineup:

1.) It was pretty cool to see those 4 all on the same team.
2.) They failed.

 

[trojanfan12]

Well that happens. Like last year, the Cavs wanted a title. I don't think not winning a title, in their first year together, was a failure but then injuries happen and it wasn't realistic but still possible. Along the season things change.

Last year, the Cavs were title or bust, even for their first year. However, because of the injuries, I don't think you can really call it a bust of a season. This year, assuming they get to the finals healthy and stay healthy, if they don't win, it's a bust.

 

[trojanfan12]

Ill guarantee you people with your warped mentality would have called that Lakers team with Kobe, Dwight, Nash and Gasol a "title or bust team".....

They were a title or bust team. When that trade happened, pretty much everyone had the Lakers and Heat in the finals. Magic got on tv and said the Lakers were back to winning championships again. Pretty much every Lakers fan expected a finals appearance at worst.

The season was a bust and abject failure. Period.

 

[trojanfan12]

If so, what does that make the GM who spends $108mil and still doesn't win?

It makes him the winner of a very expensive participation trophy.