Series Thread: Eastern Conference Finals: 1) Cleveland Cavaliers (57-25) vs. 2) Toronto Raptors (56-26)

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I would add a healthy Clippers. I think CP3 & Blake were expecting a title if they remained healthy

Agree, but I was speaking more in the present.
I wouldn't have put the Thunder in that category before the playoffs started, but they have to be at this point.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

It's not a realistic goal for most teams in most sports in any season.
Cavs are title or bust. Sorry.
So are Warriors and at this point I would say Thunder.
Maybe throw Spurs in there, but nobody else.

At the very least, a Team should want to see a little improvement, right?

They made it to the Finals last year.

Spent $108 million bucks this year and come away with the same result ?

This would not be a failed Season if they lost in the finals. But, I wouldn't consider it a success either.

 

[bksballer89]

Ohh yeah of course, for the Sixers it was like the 9th game of the season.

I think it was first day of training camp actually.

 

[gordontrue]

Let's assume Cleveland beat Toronto then lose in the finals to OKC/GSW.

If you ask who had the better season between Toronto/Cleveland, the answer would be Cleveland but if you asked which team exceeded expectations then the answer is Toronto.

This was a good summary by bk that I think everyone would agree with.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I would add a healthy Clippers. I think CP3 & Blake were expecting a title if they remained healthy

Yep.

This year was a complete ass whopping for the Team with the 2nd highest payroll in the NBA.

No excuses...They didn't get it done...period.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Yep.

This year was a complete ass whopping for the Team with the 2nd highest payroll in the NBA.

No excuses...They didn't get it done...period.

They actually did have an excuse.
Hard enough to win with your best players.
No chance without them.
Doesn't change the results though.

 

[Heatles84]

I agree with Wiggy on this.

If you want to have a discussion about expectations and who exceeded them or met them or failed to live up to them, that's fine. And expectation definitely plays a role in the level of disappointment that will be felt when a team loses.

But the default measurement of any team or player in sports is Winning. Any other measurement is secondary.

So......you think that a team that consists of Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, and Lebron James as well as the highest paid roster by a country mile compared to the rest of the league not winning a title equals success?

That's some fantasy land bullshit right there.

 

[Heatles84]

I actually agree with wiggy on this too.

Of course you do. Your team's got 1 foot in the bust season grave and OKC has the shovel ready.

 

[gordontrue]

So......you think that a team that consists of Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, and Lebron James as well as the highest paid roster by a country mile compared to the rest of the league not winning a title equals success?

That's some fantasy land bullshit right there.

No. I don't agree with that.

I was agreeing with him that when it comes to comparing the success of two teams/players in sports the default comparison is winning. Comparing two teams based on how much they lived up to their expectations, while potentially useful... is secondary.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Damn, Anthony Davis missed out on $24 million because he didn't make a All nba team.

Congrats to Steph, Bron, Westbrook, Kawhi and my man, Deandre!

 

[WiggyRuss]

No. I don't agree with that.

I was agreeing with him that when it comes to comparing the success of two teams/players in sports the default comparison is winning. Comparing two teams based on how much they lived up to their expectations, while potentially useful... is secondary.

seriously

no one in their right mind goes back and looks at this season 10 years from now and go- ya know- Portland had a more succesful year than the Cavs because they overachieved their expectations. I mena NO ONE expected them to get to the 2nd round....they were WAY better than the Thunder team that got to Game 7 and lost to the Cavs....

Thats just not how sports works. No fan in their right mind would prefer Portland's season over the Thunder's.

 

[Heatles84]

seriously

no one in their right mind goes back and looks at this season 10 years from now and go- ya know- Portland had a more succesful year than the Cavs because they overachieved their expectations. I mena NO ONE expected them to get to the 2nd round....they were WAY better than the Thunder team that got to Game 7 and lost to the Cavs....

Thats just not how sports works. No fan in their right mind would prefer Portland's season over the Thunder's.

Who the fuck cares about Portland? It's about surpassing expectations - you don't like that because the reality if Cleveland doesn't win is a pill you don't want to take.

Portland, there expectations given that 4/5 of their roster went to other teams was that they'd be a middling lottery team for the year. Not make the 2nd round of the playoffs. Their season, even though they didn't win as many games as the Cavs - a success.

****IF**** Cleveland loses. It's a bust because you're an elite team that was in the Finals last year and have the same roster this year with everyone healthy.

If the Heat never won a title in the 4 years they had the big 3 yet made it to the Finals every year - it's a bust, and an epic one at that. The years that Miami didn't win it (2011 and 2014) are busts. That roster was built to win a title every year. Same as OKC and San Antonio as well as the Pacers, Celtics, and Bulls in select years. All of the teams mentioned had bust years because they didn't win.

Not surprising that this is the Cavs fans mindset - participation trophy.

 

[Heatles84]

Teams go in with different goals and expectations.

Miami - Ceiling was the ECF. Made it one game short. Ok season, but not necessarily a success. Call it a bust if you want, I don't care.
Portland - Not even expected to make it to the playoffs. Made it to the 2nd round. Success.
Toronto - Expected to get knocked out 1st/2nd round. Made it to the ECF and made a series of it. Success.

Spurs, Thunder, Warriors, and Cavs - expected to win the title. Spurs bust. Warriors on the verge of a bust.

Not an overly hard concept to grasp.

 

[WiggyRuss]

 

[gordontrue]

Teams go in with different goals and expectations.

Miami - Ceiling was the ECF. Made it one game short. Ok season, but not necessarily a success. Call it a bust if you want, I don't care.
Portland - Not even expected to make it to the playoffs. Made it to the 2nd round. Success.
Toronto - Expected to get knocked out 1st/2nd round. Made it to the ECF and made a series of it. Success.

Spurs, Thunder, Warriors, and Cavs - expected to win the title. Spurs bust. Warriors on the verge of a bust.

Not an overly hard concept to grasp.

I don't think anyone is having trouble grasping the concept.

I'm fine with having these discussions. I absolutely agree that the Heat exceeded expectations (especially after Bosh injury), the Blazers exceeded expectations and if the Cavs lose the next 2 games they failed to live up to expectations. Relative to their expectations... the Heat and Blazers would have "better" seasons than the Cavs in that scenario.

All I'm saying is that that measuring stick for a season is secondary to the actual measuring stick of sports.... WINNING.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Teams go in with different goals and expectations.

Miami - Ceiling was the ECF. Made it one game short. Ok season, but not necessarily a success. Call it a bust if you want, I don't care.
Portland - Not even expected to make it to the playoffs. Made it to the 2nd round. Success.
Toronto - Expected to get knocked out 1st/2nd round. Made it to the ECF and made a series of it. Success.

Spurs, Thunder, Warriors, and Cavs - expected to win the title. Spurs bust. Warriors on the verge of a bust.

Not an overly hard concept to grasp.

what was the Bulls ceiling? how about the Sixers?

il ltell ya what

you and bksballer do a "REAL" NBA Standings at the end of the year where you grade each team against an arbitrary "expectation" that SOMEBODY thought at the beginning of the year- and then compare that to what they did...and re order the teams...

itll be AWESOME...lol....you wont get laughed at WHAT SO EVER, lol.

I cant wait...

The Bobcats were more succesful than the Cavs and WArriors!!!

the Blazers had a better season than the Thunder!!!

The Bulls were the WORST TEAM IN basketball!!!!

lol. it just makes no sense.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Who the fuck cares about Portland? It's about surpassing expectations - you don't like that because the reality if Cleveland doesn't win is a pill you don't want to take.

Portland, there expectations given that 4/5 of their roster went to other teams was that they'd be a middling lottery team for the year. Not make the 2nd round of the playoffs. Their season, even though they didn't win as many games as the Cavs - a success.

****IF**** Cleveland loses. It's a bust because you're an elite team that was in the Finals last year and have the same roster this year with everyone healthy.

If the Heat never won a title in the 4 years they had the big 3 yet made it to the Finals every year - it's a bust, and an epic one at that. The years that Miami didn't win it (2011 and 2014) are busts. That roster was built to win a title every year. Same as OKC and San Antonio as well as the Pacers, Celtics, and Bulls in select years. All of the teams mentioned had bust years because they didn't win.

Not surprising that this is the Cavs fans mindset - participation trophy.

I want a title, I might be greedy but when you come this far like last year....it's a title.

 

[Heatles84]

I don't think anyone is having trouble grasping the concept.

I'm fine with having these discussions. I absolutely agree that the Heat exceeded expectations (especially after Bosh injury), the Blazers exceeded expectations and if the Cavs lose the next 2 games they failed to live up to expectations. Relative to their expectations... the Heat and Blazers would have "better" seasons than the Cavs in that scenario.

All I'm saying is that that measuring stick for a season is secondary to the real measuring stick of sports.... WINNING.

Sure. I see where you're coming from. But I'm of the mindset of meeting goals. How is your team going to feel after the season is done? Wade and Bosh are vacationing right now. As it relates to team goals, they can discuss and said the Heat did "okay" (I'm not using the Bosh injury as an excuse, we could've made the ECF and were in a decent position to do so).

If Cleveland or Golden St. loses, a week or two after the season Lebron, Curry, or both are going to have that stark reality that they missed out on a chance to win a title as their respective teams were built for a shot to win and that was the expectations for heading into the year.

 

[Heatles84]

what was the Bulls ceiling? how about the Sixers?

il ltell ya what

you and bksballer do a "REAL" NBA Standings at the end of the year where you grade each team against an arbitrary "expectation" that SOMEBODY thought at the beginning of the year- and then compare that to what they did...and re order the teams...

itll be AWESOME...lol....you wont get laughed at WHAT SO EVER, lol.

Bulls ceiling was the playoffs, quite possible 2nd round or ECF. They failed miserably for not even making the playoffs. They'll even acknowledge it. The 76ers weren't expected to make the playoffs, but I'm sure they wanted to make significant improvement based off last season. They didn't do that, but got the no. 1 pick out of it.

You seem to be the only one laughing quite honestly. Your sense of humor is rather odd.

 

[RobToxin]

I dunno whose argument I am supporting here but after over 40+ wins in a row at home.....

the way the Spurs playoff run ended, I will not look back on this as a great season in Spurs basketball history.