Down on the Farm (2018)

[LHG]

Somebody said on KNBR yesterday (Hank??) that Shaw may not get the call because they feel he could get traded and the org does not want to expose him to MLB failure and destroy his value.

I got the sense that the opinion was more than just a WAG.

Great. Ship off a prospect for probably just another over the hill veteran on the decline of his career, just because the team doesn't want to rebuild and feels like grasping madly for veterans will fix this club.

 

[LHG]

Hopefully he settles down next year in one spot as opposed to being the taxi man

Yeah, I hope so too. The strange thing is that he get bumped back to Salem for another taxi man.

 

[SFGRTB]

Yeah, I hope so too. The strange thing is that he get bumped back to Salem for another taxi man.

Salem would probably be the normal spot for him if he wasn't the taxi guy, but he has better numbers in Augusta so far. Who knows

 

[tzill]

My favorite under the radar guy from 2018 is JJ Santa Cruz, a non-drafted free agent from Fresno State (I know, I'm biased). He's pitched for 4 different teams (for some reason, he's been assigned to both AZL teams, in addition to stints with August and, currently, Salem-Keizer). So far, he's handled each assignment well, throwing a combined 29.3 innings, giving up 22 hits, 8 runs (6 earned) and 9 walks while striking out 28. He did give up 2 home runs while with Augusta but still kept his WHIP at 0.88 and his ERA at 2.63 while with that team. Not sure why they bumped him back down to Salem.

Man, how do you keep this guy separate from JJ Fresno, who went to UCSC?

I always mix them up.

 

[tzill]

Great. Ship off a prospect for probably just another over the hill veteran on the decline of his career, just because the team doesn't want to rebuild and feels like grasping madly for veterans will fix this club.

Although, you have to admit that they rarely trade away anyone who becomes a solid ML player. Usually, the guys we send out don't even make it.

 

[Stokes1931]

Player A: 348 minor league games, .278/.373/.473 with 56 homers (24 years old)

Player B: 397 minor league games, .276/.336/.511 with 80 homers (24 years old)

Who would you call up?

 

[calsnowskier]

Player A: 348 minor league games, .278/.373/.473 with 56 homers

Player B: 397 minor league games, .276/.336/.511 with 80 homers

Who would you call up?

How old are they? What levels were those numbers put up in? What position do they play? Are they good defensively? Do either have pedigree.

 

[Stokes1931]

How old are they? What levels were those numbers put up in? What position do they play? Are they good defensively? Do either have pedigree.

Missed my edit.

Both are outfielders, not terrible but not Gold Glove. Both 24 years old. Both went to college and were drafted.

Player A was drafted late in the 1st round.

Player B was drafted middle of the 1st round.

Player A bats R, throws R

Player B bats L, throws R

Player A spent three seasons moving through Low-A to AAA.

Player B spent four seasons moving through Short Season to AAA.

 

[calsnowskier]

Missed my edit.

Both are outfielders, not terrible but not Gold Glove. Both 24 years old. Both went to college and were drafted.

Player A was drafted late in the 1st round.

Player B was drafted middle of the 1st round.

Player A bats R, throws R

Player B bats L, throws R

Player A spent three seasons moving through Low-A to AAA.

Player B spent four seasons moving through Short Season to AAA.

No mention of how they are performing this year, or if there are any injury issues, so I will assume neither are recovering or experiencing any injury issues and both are putting up years consistent with their baseball card in AAA. I will further assume that neither will be eligible for the Rule V draft next year, so call ups will be earned and not forced.

Player B has slightly more power and a tad more experience. Assuming only 1 can be called up, B gets my call.

But there are more variables that need to be looked at, and numbers are probably only about 50% of the story for minor league players.

 

[Stokes1931]

No mention of how they are performing this year, or if there are any injury issues, so I will assume neither are recovering or experiencing any injury issues and both are putting up years consistent with their baseball card in AAA. I will further assume that neither will be eligible for the Rule V draft next year, so call ups will be earned and not forced.

Player B has slightly more power and a tad more experience. Assuming only 1 can be called up, B gets my call.

But there are more variables that need to be looked at, and numbers are probably only about 50% of the story for minor league players.

Just a hypothetical case.

Player A is Aaron Judge (his minor league numbers)

Player B is Chris Shaw (his minor league numbers)

Judge never hit more than 20 homers in a minor league season, and hit more than twice that his rookie year.

Shaw has shown he can hit for power. The Giants traditionally have been hesitant to bring up minor leaguers until they are "ready". I realize a lot more goes into "ready" than numbers, but just comparing the numbers, Judge and Shaw are comparable. Not saying Shaw will hit 50+ homers in his first season, but I think he needs to at least come up in September. Hope that happens.

 

[calsnowskier]

Just a hypothetical case.

Player A is Aaron Judge (his minor league numbers)

Player B is Chris Shaw (his minor league numbers)

Judge never hit more than 20 homers in a minor league season, and hit more than twice that his rookie year.

Shaw has shown he can hit for power. The Giants traditionally have been hesitant to bring up minor leaguers until they are "ready". I realize a lot more goes into "ready" than numbers, but just comparing the numbers, Judge and Shaw are comparable. Not saying Shaw will hit 50+ homers in his first season, but I think he needs to at least come up in September. Hope that happens.

I would like to see Shaw get his cuppo this year, but his defense is BAD. And if the Giants do want to flip him for SOMETHING else this off season, maybe it is wise to not expose him to AT&T and MLB pitching.

Sabes said there will be BIG changes this off season. I read that as Bum. And if Shaw can turn into some serious salary relief (Longo?? Sammy??) and a lottery ticket or two, maybe that makes sense.

 

[Stokes1931]

I would like to see Shaw get his cuppo this year, but his defense is BAD. And if the Giants do want to flip him for SOMETHING else this off season, maybe it is wise to not expose him to AT&T and MLB pitching.

Sabes said there will be BIG changes this off season. I read that as Bum. And if Shaw can turn into some serious salary relief (Longo?? Sammy??) and a lottery ticket or two, maybe that makes sense.

I don't think Shaw is a bad OF. He played LF in college. Giants "converted" him to a 1B initially. He's been a LF the past two years with Richmond and Sacramento. Switching positions, especially from IF to OF, can be difficult.

Like I said, Shaw is not a Gold Glove candidate. He may very well be a throw in for some salary relief. But I'd love to see him get a shot. The Giants are, IMHO, terrible in calling up minor leaguers.

Lastly, Judge's FP in RF in the minors was .979, Shaw's is .970. That's not a large difference. And the Giants desperately and ABSOLUTELY NEED some power hitters. Shaw is a power hitter. He has weaknesses. He strikes out too often. He walks too seldom. His fielding is not stellar. But he can hit the long ball. Perhaps he can grow in the other areas, but not unless he's given a chance. If Judge had been in the Giants' system, he'd still be in AAA.

 

[SFGRTB]

Just a hypothetical case.

Player A is Aaron Judge (his minor league numbers)

Player B is Chris Shaw (his minor league numbers)

Judge never hit more than 20 homers in a minor league season, and hit more than twice that his rookie year.

Shaw has shown he can hit for power. The Giants traditionally have been hesitant to bring up minor leaguers until they are "ready". I realize a lot more goes into "ready" than numbers, but just comparing the numbers, Judge and Shaw are comparable. Not saying Shaw will hit 50+ homers in his first season, but I think he needs to at least come up in September. Hope that happens.

I thought the Giants had a 24 year old flying completely under the radar haha. Knew B was Shaw, was wondering who the heck A could be

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't think Shaw is a bad OF. He played LF in college. Giants "converted" him to a 1B initially. He's been a LF the past two years with Richmond and Sacramento. Switching positions, especially from IF to OF, can be difficult.

Like I said, Shaw is not a Gold Glove candidate. He may very well be a throw in for some salary relief. But I'd love to see him get a shot. The Giants are, IMHO, terrible in calling up minor leaguers.

Lastly, Judge's FP in RF in the minors was .979, Shaw's is .970. That's not a large difference. And the Giants desperately and ABSOLUTELY NEED some power hitters. Shaw is a power hitter. He has weaknesses. He strikes out too often. He walks too seldom. His fielding is not stellar. But he can hit the long ball. Perhaps he can grow in the other areas, but not unless he's given a chance. If Judge had been in the Giants' system, he'd still be in AAA.

For the record, I don’t have high expectations for Judge. Giants (large humans, not SF Giants) don’t typically last long in baseball. Winfield and Thomas are probably the only two who have shown any serious success in the major leagues.

 

[calsnowskier]

I thought the Giants had a 24 year old flying completely under the radar haha. Knew B was Shaw, was wondering who the heck A could be

I figured 1 of them was Shaw, but I did not look either up so I could answer legit. I had no idea who he was comparing too. I thought maybe Mac, but Mac was a second rounder.

 

[Stokes1931]

For the record, I don’t have high expectations for Judge. Giants (large humans, not SF Giants) don’t typically last long in baseball. Winfield and Thomas are probably the only two who have shown any serious success in the major leagues.

Granted.

Kingman (Kong) hit 442 homers (he was 6' 6")

Frank Howard (6' 7") had a pretty decent career

G. Stanton (6' 6") is having a pretty decent career

Adam Dunn had a decent career

Strawberry would have done better longer if not for the blow

These may be the exceptions. Judge may be a flash in the pan. But he's been awesome for 1.5 seasons.

 

[SFGRTB]

I would like to see Shaw get his cuppo this year, but his defense is BAD. And if the Giants do want to flip him for SOMETHING else this off season, maybe it is wise to not expose him to AT&T and MLB pitching.

Sabes said there will be BIG changes this off season. I read that as Bum. And if Shaw can turn into some serious salary relief (Longo?? Sammy??) and a lottery ticket or two, maybe that makes sense.

I have heard that Shaw's defense is actually fine (not good necessarily, but not self-destructive). He just didn't have the footwork for 1st base and was awful there. As Stokes mentioned he was an OFer in College (RF actually) so he has reps out there. He in fact mentioned himself that the transition to LF was all about reading the ball coming in, but was otherwise pretty comfortable.

Now I personally have some concerns about his power in AT&T. Last offseason I was hoping the Giants would do a pure prospect swap, something like Shaw for Harrison Bader or Shaw for Tyler O'Neill. Both guys are right-handed. Shaw is left-handed. And his game completely revolves around power, so if he's struggling to hit them at AT&T he could be quite a waste of space.

He does have 70 raw power and makes enough contact for that to translate. I think he can be an exception to the rule, unlike Belt for instance who is more of a gap-to-gap guy. But I'm definitely skeptical.

 

[SFGRTB]

I figured 1 of them was Shaw, but I did not look either up so I could answer legit. I had no idea who he was comparing too. I thought maybe Mac, but Mac was a second rounder.

Mac is also 28 years old, but I thought about him for a second as well.

 

[Stokes1931]

Mac is also 28 years old, but I thought about him for a second as well.

Sorry about the confusion. Judge was 24 when he was called up, so I used that age comparison. I found their minor league stats interestingly similar except for OBP. I do not believe the Giants would have called Judge up, as the Spanks did. So I am leery of how they will deal with Shaw.

 

[LHG]

Although, you have to admit that they rarely trade away anyone who becomes a solid ML player. Usually, the guys we send out don't even make it.

You mean like that catcher Andrew Susac?