Difference in QB eras

[RaZon]

Do you really think a 182 pound QB could play today? That was Baugh. Now how would a 220 pounder vs 240 pounder D linemen do?

Otto, 195.

Do this take a few minute and Google both Baugh and Otto career stats, now check out Trubisky, it's staring right at ya. And what Trupisky faces vs what those old timers way back when is like HS vs NFL, DRAMATICALLY different.

YES....ya always go with dominance of area. That is why Baugh and Otto are legends.

 

[RaZon]

Would ya believe college all star teams have beaten NFL Championship teams?

A HS team went all season never allowing any opponet to cross the 50 yard line?

Michigan went 4 seasons scoring over 2000 points giving up 36?

Georgia Tech 222 Cumberland 0

The Cowboys drafted Bullet Bob Hayes the 64 Olympic 100m champ, the Giants draft Henry Carr the 64 Olympic 200m champion to cover him?

The Giants had a WR would had beaten Hayes in college, same with Carr?

While in HS Tyreek Hill ran a 20.14 200m, the second fastest ever for HS (Roy Martin 20.13)

Gale "Kansas Comet" Sayers has an older bro faster than he was?

 

[Wazmankg]

Do you really think a 182 pound QB could play today? That was Baugh. Now how would a 220 pounder vs 240 pounder D linemen do?

Otto, 195.

Do this take a few minute and Google both Baugh and Otto career stats, now check out Trubisky, it's staring right at ya. And what Trupisky faces vs what those old timers way back when is like HS vs NFL, DRAMATICALLY different.

YES....ya always go with dominance of area. That is why Baugh and Otto are legends.

Dude, Baugh was a multi-sport star. He was signed by the Cardinals and played minor league baseball. But he got stuck behind HOF SS Marty Marion, so he decided to go with football.

He was a star on defense as well, playing both ways his first 6 seasons. He intercepted 33 passes in those 6 years and led the league with 11 one year.

He was the greatest punter of his era also and his 51.4 yards per punt in 1940 is still the all time record.

"B-b-but Trubusky weighs 222 lbs! "..lol

We'll do Graham next, but you really need to stick with track. You're making a fool of yourself in this one.

 

[Wazmankg]

Now for Otto Graham. Let's move away from QB and compare their other athletic accomplishments that might provide some insight as to how they compare. I'll keep it short.

Otto Graham was a 1st team All-American for Northwestern in basketball.
Mitch Trubisky weighs 222 lbs.

The End.

 

[RaZon]

I am well aware of all that and talked about Baugh being able to punt right now. Also aware of the fact he never faced the caliber of athletes that Trupisky and all current athletes face.

Why will a one loss SEC team get far FAR more props than a undefeated BYU, San Jose State, team? Yep......level of competition. Baugh and Otto were amazing in their era vs that level of competition, but like track cats from back then they would stand no chance vs what we are seeing today. How can you not understand that fact?

There are high school offensive lines today that would dwarf any NFL line back then. The HS 100m record is 10,00, that would have won every Olympics up to the 80's.

Level of competition is what is important with this.

I won't try and talk around it, neither faced African American athletes with that size with speed combo like a Deacon Jones. Ah, Graham faced a few.

Imagine Russell Wilson way back then, if he can do what he does vs these athletes today think what it is oing to all those slow white guys back then.

 

[RaZon]

Now for Otto Graham. Let's move away from QB and compare their other athletic accomplishments that might provide some insight as to how they compare. I'll keep it short.

Otto Graham was a 1st team All-American for Northwestern in basketball.
Mitch Trubisky weighs 222 lbs.

The End.

So unless a QB played basketball, hahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Who was the big star on those Graham Browns teams, yep......Marion Motley!!!! Why? Try he was close to what we see today, he had that size with speed combo you see in black athletes. Otto rarely faced that kind of athlete on defense, he never saw a 4.4 corner back.

You honestly don't get the difference in the athletes back then vs today?

When Jim Brown showed up in 58 at 6-2 230 it was like a man from the future had landed, he was a freak of nature. Look what he did he dominated.

 

[Wazmankg]

I am well aware of all that and talked about Baugh being able to punt right now. Also aware of the fact he never faced the caliber of athletes that Trupisky and all current athletes face.

Why will a one loss SEC team get far FAR more props than a undefeated BYU, San Jose State, team? Yep......level of competition. Baugh and Otto were amazing in their era vs that level of competition, but like track cats from back then they would stand no chance vs what we are seeing today. How can you not understand that fact?

There are high school offensive lines today that would dwarf any NFL line back then. The HS 100m record is 10,00, that would have won every Olympics up to the 80's.

Level of competition is what is important with this.

I won't try and talk around it, neither faced African American athletes with that size with speed combo like a Deacon Jones. Ah, Graham faced a few.

Imagine Russell Wilson way back then, if he can do what he does vs these athletes today think what it is oing to all those slow white guys back then.

You keep talking about "the caliber of athletes" he has to face as if that's a thing for QBs. It isn't. QBs don't go mano-a-mano against anyone. It all about their passing ability. Do you think that top shelf athletes like Graham & Baugh would have more trouble dealing with the pass rush than Tom Brady? Why? Based on what?

 

[RaZon]

You keep talking about "the caliber of athletes" he has to face as if that's a thing for QBs. It isn't. QBs don't go mano-a-mano against anyone. It all about their passing ability. Do you think that top shelf athletes like Graham & Baugh would have more trouble dealing with the pass rush than Tom Brady? Why? Based on what?

Dante Levelli and Mac Speedie were his receivers, do you really think they could seperate vs these defenders today? Do you really think Otto's line can handle these pass rushers today? Otto was never hit by a 300 pounder. The game is far faster now than way back then.

Watch some video of Graham he isn't puting the ball in tight windows. while at 270 pound DE with 4.7 jets is able to destroy him.

Dude, you really aren't gettng how things are,

Bone up on Lavelli a HOFer actually and Speedie.

 

[RaZon]

Remember when Appalachian State beat Michigan, that was a really big deal, it was of historical importance, why? Yep, level of competition. Michigan a power five school a legendary powerhouse. Hell, where is Appalachian State, name one player who ever went there?

Level of competition, just like a CFL team vs an NFL team, yep....hahaha!

Athletes today are on a whole other level of existance than back in the days of Slingin' Sammie and Otto, a whole other world.

Who can name other QB's from back then, why is it ya can't, I can't, the reason being they all sucked. Just not Baugh and Otto, they were the exceptions.

Jason Wentz played at North Dakota State, as we know that will get.......well he didn't face the best, yep.....competition. Well neither did Baugh and Otto.

 

[PDay8810]

Bob Hayes first 4 seasons were fantastic, he was all pro, 4 pro bowls scored 45 TD's, a 64 catch/1200yard season something Warfield never had. Then the jets begin to cool but for those 4 seasons he was on par with anyone in the game,

you're outta your mind. I watched every game Hayse played and he dropped almost as many TD's has he caught. Hayse could fly like no oher in the game and deserves HOF, but there were many better wides in football back in his day.

Hell....look at the Ice Bowl, he had his hands in his pants the whole game. He wanted it less than any player on the field that day.

Now spare me your rebuttal, anyone can pull up Pro Football Reference and spin stats.

 

[RaZon]

you're outta your mind. I watched every game Hayse played and he dropped almost as many TD's has he caught. Hayse could fly like no oher in the game and deserves HOF, but there were many better wides in football back in his day.

Hell....look at the Ice Bowl, he had his hands in his pants the whole game. He wanted it less than any player on the field that day.

Now spare me your rebuttal, anyone can pull up Pro Football Reference and spin stats.

I saw Hayes play running back while a Florida A&M Rattler, ah.....a news clip. Also saw him as a Cowboy. and think ya are nuts.

His first 4 seasons....

4 pro bowls
over 200 receptions
one All Pro
over 4000 yards
over 40 TD's

......look at that amazing yards per catch.

Who in his day compares to that, well? Yes, he had a short at the top career, just talking those first 4 seasons.

 

[RaZon]

There was somebody else before Bob Hayes who gets totally forgotten. It's always......Bullet Bob Hayes the first speed receiver, defenses had to change how to play the game.

Back in 1950 Loyola's Bob Boyd won the NCAA 100, he was also a WR. As a Ram he had a 1000 yard season back when that was rare. And back in his day we still had white cornerbacks so his 9.5 jets on a par with Hayes 9.1 in his day,

 

[Wazmankg]

Dante Levelli and Mac Speedie were his receivers, do you really think they could seperate vs these defenders today?

No they couldn't. But they wouldn't be his receivers today. No idea why you even brought them up. Completely irrelevant to our discussion.

Do you really think Otto's line can handle these pass rushers today?

Otto's line wouldn't be playing in front of him today. They're all dead. Again, no idea why you even raise them. Has your position here morphed from Otto vs Mitch to Otto's entire offense vs a 2021 NFL defense?

Because if your argument has changed to that, then I agree that the 1952 Brown's offense couldn't compete against a 2021 NFL defense. But that isn't what we're discussing.

Otto was never hit by a 300 pounder.

QBs today rarely get hit much at all. QBs had a much tougher and more dangerous job dealing with the pass rush before they changed the rules. That's an argument for dealing with the rush being actually easier today than it was back then.

The game is far faster now than way back then.

Yup. Instead of leading his WRs by 5 yards he'd have to lead them by 7. I think he'd be able to figure that out.

Watch some video of Graham he isn't puting the ball in tight windows. while at 270 pound DE with 4.7 jets is able to destroy him.

Dude, you really aren't gettng how things are,

Bone up on Lavelli a HOFer actually and Speedie.

I don't know what to tell you. He's one of the most efficient and accurate passers the game has ever known. D linemen don't get to "destroy" QBs anymore. They used to be able to do that with impunity. Not anymore. That's an argument in my favor, not yours.

What you are not getting is that the size, strength and speed advances that make todays players inarguably better than those of yesteryear simply do not apply to the extent you believe when it comes to QBs.

 

[RaZon]

No they couldn't. But they wouldn't be his receivers today. No idea why you even brought them up. Completely irrelevant to our discussion.



Otto's line wouldn't be playing in front of him today. They're all dead. Again, no idea why you even raise them. Has your position here morphed from Otto vs Mitch to Otto's entire offense vs a 2021 NFL defense?

Because if your argument has changed to that, then I agree that the 1952 Brown's offense couldn't compete against a 2021 NFL defense. But that isn't what we're discussing.



QBs today rarely get hit much at all. QBs had a much tougher and more dangerous job dealing with the pass rush before they changed the rules. That's an argument for dealing with the rush being actually easier today than it was back then.



Yup. Instead of leading his WRs by 5 yards he'd have to lead them by 7. I think he'd be able to figure that out.



I don't know what to tell you. He's one of the most efficient and accurate passers the game has ever known. D linemen don't get to "destroy" QBs anymore. They used to be able to do that with impunity. Not anymore. That's an argument in my favor, not yours.

What you are not getting is that the size, strength and speed advances that make todays players inarguably better than those of yesteryear simply do not apply to the extent you believe when it comes to QBs.

Big Ben and Rodgers have been sacked over 500 times, seriously doubt Otto was. Yes I know no stats for that back then. And the guys sacking Rodgers and Big Ben far bigger and stronger than anything Otto faced.

You are missing my point, Otto could do what he did because of who he played against, ok? Do you really believe any current NFL QB wouldn't destroy a defense from back then, really?

What ya do is just leave the good old boys in their era, a place where they ruled. Trying to ......Slingin' Sammy all 182 pounds of him would spit in Aaron Darnolds face and Otto could play basketball..........come on man!

 

[RaZon]

Check this out.......


People also ask

What is the average weight of a high school lineman?

Now, the average is around 315. It's not much different at the collegiate level, with linemen at top programs at least topping 290 if not 300 pounds on average. Of course, the vast majority of high school linemen aren't going to play at the Division I level, let alone the NFL

What was the average weight for those Lombardi Packer teams o line, the 70's Steelers, the 80's Niners and Cowboys?

Forrest Gregg the best o lineman was a 250 pounder.

Point............whole other world today, especially in sports.

 

[PDay8810]

Check this out.......


People also ask

What is the average weight of a high school lineman?

Now, the average is around 315. It's not much different at the collegiate level, with linemen at top programs at least topping 290 if not 300 pounds on average. Of course, the vast majority of high school linemen aren't going to play at the Division I level, let alone the NFL

What was the average weight for those Lombardi Packer teams o line, the 70's Steelers, the 80's Niners and Cowboys?

Point............whole other world today, especially in sports.

great players would be that in todays game. They would be bigger & stronger with today's diets, supplements and training

 

[RaZon]

great players would be that in todays game. They would be bigger & stronger with today's diets, supplements and training

So Jim Brown who was 6-2 230 will now be 6-4 250? Gale Sayers a 200 pounder will be just as fast and elusive at 220? Bullet Bob Hayes was a 195pounder, he will be faster at 210?

Come on man!

 

[Center Ice]

I completely agree the athletes are better today than back then. That doesnt make the player today better than the player from back then.
BTW QBs back in those days got beat the fuck up. You know why you see so many QBs have long careers now. because they are barely allowed to be touched. Now imagine trying to complete a pass 15 yards downfield while your receiver is being mauled by the DB. You want to look at everything from one side only. All the rules favor QBs now. They change rules so their can be more scoring. Defenses arent as good as the ones back in the day. QBs dont suffer like they did back in the day. So when Randy White or Mean Joe Green Pancaked a QB that would now be a 15 yd penalty. Most QBs nowadays are prima donnas compared to back then. Jim Burt Annihilated Joe Montana. Those kind of hits arent happening nowadays. Could you imagine a Deacon Jones slap to a Qb of today? Mel Blount saying go ahead & beat the shit of the QB because I am gonna maul his target so he has to hold the ball. Roger Staubach & so many more retired much earlier than they would have, because of the physical hits they were taking. So while you explain to me about how much more athletic the guys are now. Those Athletes arent making the QBs look through their ear hole! Oh! & BTW. Some of those better Athletes are the receivers these QBs are throwing to now.

I remember watching a young Guy Lafleur skating off the ice during a game, sitting down on the bench and lighting up a cigarette. A legendary hockey player but seriously, smoking on the bench? Different time for sure.

 

[RaZon]

So Carson did sign with the Seahawks, so Pete did do what I asked. Love it!

 

[Wazmankg]

Big Ben and Rodgers have been sacked over 500 times, seriously doubt Otto was. Yes I know no stats for that back then. And the guys sacking Rodgers and Big Ben far bigger and stronger than anything Otto faced.

You are missing my point, Otto could do what he did because of who he played against, ok? Do you really believe any current NFL QB wouldn't destroy a defense from back then, really?

What ya do is just leave the good old boys in their era, a place where they ruled. Trying to ......Slingin' Sammy all 182 pounds of him would spit in Aaron Darnolds face and Otto could play basketball..........come on man!

A sack is a sack. I'm quite certain both were sacked plenty. But you lost this argument right off the bat when you tried to make a big point about Trubisky's weight being a factor. That was a big red flag indicating that you don't have any idea about what considerations are important in a QB.

"Johnny is a hell of a QB, but I think we'll pass because he doesn't weigh quite enough" ... said nobody ever. Stick with track.