Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2014 Thread

[broncosmitty]

How about New Mexico throwing strikes eh!?! Maybe he'll be more 2012 AlAl than the 2013 WHiP monster?

 

[Howie115]

BP= 1-0 in one-run games. 0.00 ERA

Yep. Jalopy takes an early lead in "the bet".

How about New Mexico throwing strikes eh!?! Maybe he'll be more 2012 AlAl than
the 2013 WHiP monster?

I was commenting on the CBS glog that Al Al had a very rare inning -- no walks OR strikeouts.

 

[MiamiVice]

Reed and Putkonen are going to be much better this year... Worries of the bullpen will fade soon... I think the Tigers may add an arm, most likely a lefty specialist later in the season... but don't be surprised if this bullpen is much better than you thought... A year of seasoning for mid 20's relievers can make a world of difference.

 

[Cleaves2000]

How about New Mexico throwing strikes eh!?! Maybe he'll be more 2012 AlAl than the 2013 WHiP monster?

Yeah i missed it...had to go get my kids from school and missed the 8th inning...did get back in time to see the winner tho..

 

[Cleaves2000]

Yep. Jalopy takes an early lead in "the bet".



I was commenting on the CBS glog that Al Al had a very rare inning -- no walks OR strikeouts.

Thats not a bet with me....i dont think 1 run games tells how good the BP is.....what if the tigers are up one and then in the 8th the BP gives up 3 or more runs? Then its not a one run game anymore...but the BP still blew it...im looking at holds and blown saves....mostly in the 7-8th innings....so far tho.....one good one....but as muzzer noted...no coke or joba....

 

[Cleaves2000]

Reed and Putkonen are going to be much better this year... Worries of the bullpen will fade soon... I think the Tigers may add an arm, most likely a lefty specialist later in the season... but don't be surprised if this bullpen is much better than you thought... A year of seasoning for mid 20's relievers can make a world of difference.

Plutkonin has been there longer than one season though.....so you mean a few years of seasoning...lets not forget....its only 1 of 162 games....so if they add a lefty specialist, that means coke and krol arent doing their job....they are 2 of the 3 that i said i didnt trust......joba coke krol.......sometimes ALAL....if he throws strikes, im ok with mr alberquerque...

 

[Howie115]

Thats not a bet with me....i dont think 1 run games tells how good the BP is.....what if the tigers are up one and then in the 8th the BP gives up 3 or more runs? Then its not a one run game anymore...but the BP still blew it...im looking at holds and blown saves....

I think the bet is ERA and blown saves for the 2014 bullpen vs. 2013 bullpen. Though jalopy mentioned the 1-run games thing, that is not part of it. I was quick to point out that a lot of 1-run losses last season were due to the lack of late-inning and extra-inning runs for the Tiger offense, as well as the bullpen. When the bullpen puts up blanks in the 8th-9th-10th-11th, only to lose in the 12th because the offense couldn't scratch across 1 stinking run, that's on the offense.

 

[broncosmitty]

Anybody remember the last time our Tigers had two triples in one inning? (This isn't trivia. Im looking for the answer.). That was a highlight I didn't see mentioned. (Still haven't seen the actual highlights)

 

[jalopy]

I think the bet is ERA and blown saves for the 2014 bullpen vs. 2013 bullpen. Though jalopy mentioned the 1-run games thing, that is not part of it. I was quick to point out that a lot of 1-run losses last season were due to the lack of late-inning and extra-inning runs for the Tiger offense, as well as the bullpen. When the bullpen puts up blanks in the 8th-9th-10th-11th, only to lose in the 12th because the offense couldn't scratch across 1 stinking run, that's on the offense.

I think the bet was ERA and blown saves as a percentage of save opportunities. All I know is that any game that Coke doesn't enter is a victory for me.
As for the second part, wins are what count. If the BP takes over in the seventh with a 6 run lead and gives up two runs, that is meaningless. It is kind of like determining the importance of W/L's for starting pitching.

 

[jalopy]

Reed and Putkonen are going to be much better this year... Worries of the bullpen will fade soon... I think the Tigers may add an arm, most likely a lefty specialist later in the season... but don't be surprised if this bullpen is much better than you thought... A year of seasoning for mid 20's relievers can make a world of difference.

I don't know RR. If I never saw Coke take the mound again in a Tiger uniform it would be too soon. I get the feeling that Joba will outperform his expectations (which aren't very high). As for Krol, I just don't know. He is a big question mark.

 

[jalopy]

Thats not a bet with me....i dont think 1 run games tells how good the BP is.....what if the tigers are up one and then in the 8th the BP gives up 3 or more runs? Then its not a one run game anymore...but the BP still blew it...im looking at holds and blown saves....mostly in the 7-8th innings....so far tho.....one good one....but as muzzer noted...no coke or joba....

So, you are going to judge the BP on how the set-up guys do and not include the closer? Last time I checked the closer was the most important person sitting out there beyond the wall in left field.
Statistics will take away every one of your "what ifs" over the course of a 162 game schedule.

 

[Cleaves2000]

So, you are going to judge the BP on how the set-up guys do and not include the closer? Last time I checked the closer was the most important person sitting out there beyond the wall in left field.
Statistics will take away every one of your "what ifs" over the course of a 162 game schedule.

I said nathan was great....i been saying since december we need middle relief....i could care less about numbers....im talking about trying to limit the losses we get because of the 6-7-8 innings...who gets those pressure outs in the 7th and 8th innings of big games? Thats what worries me....as howie said....if the tigers are up 6 and the BP gives up 3, im fine...when pitchers get big leads they tend to throw more strikes with room for error...whos gonna handle the pressure of keeping a 1 run lead? Being able to make those good pitches when needed...


I never said anything about nathan...i said outside of nathan, i dont trust anyone in this BP.

 

[jalopy]

I guess the scope of the debate escapes me. Everybody knows the team is going to struggle getting the ball to Nathan but I thought we were talking about the bullpen as a whole. Evaluating the BP aside from Nathan would be like evaluating the Tigers' offense but not including Miggy.

Thats what worries me....as howie said....if the tigers are up 6 and the BP gives up 3, im fine...when pitchers get big leads they tend to throw more strikes with room for error...whos gonna handle the pressure of keeping a 1 run lead? Being able to make those good pitches when needed...

Statistics are useless without a sample size large enough to make them relevant. ERA might not work when evaluating the pen on a game by game basis but in the long haul, it is a good indicator. I think by the end of the year the bullpen will look quite a bit different. I share everyone's disbelief that Coke is a major league pitcher.

 

[broncosmitty]

Scared me something fierce when he (Coke)got up in the pen yesterday. Didn't need him tainting the season on the first day. ERA is a tough call on bullpen guys. It works well for closers usually. As they typically don't inherit base runners. But for specialists it's hard to get much of a feel without taking into account inherited runners.

 

[Howie115]

If I recall, jalopy mentioned the 2013 numbers were 4.18 bullpen ERA and 38 saves/16 blown saves (70.4 save pct.). Those are the numbers we'll go by.

Believe me, though I took the side of the bet that this year's bullpen will be worse than 2013, it's a bet I hope I lose. As stated, Reed and Krol could surprise by being reliable, and I am on record several pages back as saying Putkonen should be improved, too. Still too many "ifs" for my liking, but we'll see what happens.

 

[burfboy]

today's Tiger lineup Kinsler Collins Cabrera Martinez Hunter Jackson Avila Nick C and Gonzalez

 

[Cleaves2000]

If I recall, jalopy mentioned the 2013 numbers were 4.18 bullpen ERA and 38 saves/16 blown saves (70.4 save pct.). Those are the numbers we'll go by.

Believe me, though I took the side of the bet that this year's bullpen will be worse than 2013, it's a bet I hope I lose. As stated, Reed and Krol could surprise by being reliable, and I am on record several pages back as saying Putkonen should be improved, too. Still too many "ifs" for my liking, but we'll see what happens.

Said it many times also....hope im wrong too....

 

[Cleaves2000]

Yeah im lost....i thought we signed rajai "fastest guy is baseball" davis to hit lefties? Lefty on mound, and collins getting the start....guess ausmus isnt like jimmy with the whole righty lefty thing....but still....i thought davis crushed lefthanded pitching. Maybe collins makes ausmus look like a genius..

I must admit, if jimmy stuck collins in the 2 hole vs a lefty, fans would be ready to burn down comerica.

 

[burfboy]

I haven't heard but maybe Davis isn't completely healed from the injury he had in spring training just a thought

 

[jalopy]

I haven't heard but maybe Davis isn't completely healed from the injury he had in spring training just a thought

Yeah, hamstrings and cold weather don't mix. Any update on when Dirks is due back?

If I recall, jalopy mentioned the 2013 numbers were 4.18 bullpen ERA and 38 saves/16 blown saves (70.4 save pct.). Those are the numbers we'll go by.

Sounds good to me although I think holds should be factored in somehow. That is going to be the biggest weakness for the group.