Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2013 Thread

[jalopy]

Like i said we will see

I just dont see where our weak spot, the BP was addressed and upgraded......we have joba on one side and coke on the other.....krol is unproven, just like rondon.....this was a team that was contending for a WS the last 3 years.....our BP is still weak.....but hey, we got nathan......how many saves did benoit blow last reg season? Just dont see an upgrade in the BP, the starters, the hitting.....but we upgraded defense and speed......time will tell...

Well, the Nathan signing was huge. If he performs as he has in the past, it is a huge upgrade over the closing role last year. Rondon is talented and is likely to resemble the pitcher we saw in the second half last year rather than the struggles he faced early. Krol is a much bigger unknown but he won't be counted on very heavily. The fact that the Tigers were close to the bottom of the league in save opportunities would seem to indicate that the trouble was more with the set-up guys but there was just no confidence in whoever was closing. I think Rondon's mentality is better suited to pitch the eighth than the ninth. Also, let's wait until at least March before we say the sky is falling on this group. DD may have more moves to come.

 

[Ronnie]

On paper, and that is all there is right now, the Tigers still have to be the favorites in the AL Central. Reigning MVP and CY winners still wearing Tiger unis. (Although the defeatists are already declaring Max to nose-dive this season). The Tigers have a sparkling young SS and an All-Star 2B. While Jackson and Hunter are not the best, a lot of teams would love to have either or both. Add to that one of the best hitters around as the DH. Their starting pitching, with Verlander, Scherzer, and Sanchez still one of the best 1,2,3 in baseball. And even if Smyly and Porcello are question-marks....they still have more upside than downside. They grabbed a solid closer and still have time to address adding more BP help. I don't see the Indians improving and the Twins, while better, are still a year or two away. The White Sox have made moves, but nothing major.....so KC might be the best of the rest. If I had to bet the house on the division winner....no question, I'd put it on Detroit.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Well, the Nathan signing was huge. If he performs as he has in the past, it is a huge upgrade over the closing role last year. Rondon is talented and is likely to resemble the pitcher we saw in the second half last year rather than the struggles he faced early. Krol is a much bigger unknown but he won't be counted on very heavily. The fact that the Tigers were close to the bottom of the league in save opportunities would seem to indicate that the trouble was more with the set-up guys but there was just no confidence in whoever was closing. I think Rondon's mentality is better suited to pitch the eighth than the ninth. Also, let's wait until at least March before we say the sky is falling on this group. DD may have more moves to come.

How is nathan a HUGE upgrade? I dont know the numbers, but how many saves did benoit blow in the reg season last year?

They said rondon was talented last year too....enough to name him closer....now im supposed to trust him again?

How wont krol be counted on? That means coke will.....one of the 2 will be counted on to get a huge out in the 8th vs a big papi type hitter.

Geez some of you guys act like im saying detroit will have 100 losses...thats the sky is falling...

We won the division by ONE game, and in my eyes, have gotten worse....

I just wish i could drink the kool aid....i didnt with the lions and i wont start here....and i still truly support DD.....youve never heard me bash him once.....question him? Yes......bash or blame? Never.......WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR THIS FRANCHISE WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.

 

[burfboy]

u know Iffy has never been wrong and it is his right to preach to u.....lol....

 

[Cleaves2000]

Well, the Nathan signing was huge. If he performs as he has in the past, it is a huge upgrade over the closing role last year. Rondon is talented and is likely to resemble the pitcher we saw in the second half last year rather than the struggles he faced early. Krol is a much bigger unknown but he won't be counted on very heavily. The fact that the Tigers were close to the bottom of the league in save opportunities would seem to indicate that the trouble was more with the set-up guys but there was just no confidence in whoever was closing. I think Rondon's mentality is better suited to pitch the eighth than the ninth. Also, let's wait until at least March before we say the sky is falling on this group. DD may have more moves to come.

I also notice you use the dreaded "IF" alot...........

 

[Cleaves2000]

u know Iffy has never been wrong and it is his right to preach to u.....lol....

He will be preaching to a firewall......asking others to put his shit in quotes so ill see it.....

 

[Cleaves2000]

Well, the Nathan signing was huge. If he performs as he has in the past, it is a huge upgrade over the closing role last year. Rondon is talented and is likely to resemble the pitcher we saw in the second half last year rather than the struggles he faced early. Krol is a much bigger unknown but he won't be counted on very heavily. The fact that the Tigers were close to the bottom of the league in save opportunities would seem to indicate that the trouble was more with the set-up guys but there was just no confidence in whoever was closing. I think Rondon's mentality is better suited to pitch the eighth than the ninth. Also, let's wait until at least March before we say the sky is falling on this group. DD may have more moves to come.

I agree lets see if he has another move....i said if he made some good moves.....


Joba was NOT a good move tho...IMO

 

[Cleaves2000]

Veras > joba

 

[Ronnie]

burf....are you on board with cleaves "Negativity Channel"?

Just read a fairly current report on team salaries. (The increases due to TV money was the main issue). The article has Detroit starting the season with a team salary between $154mil and $160mil. The lowest number would give the team only a $6mil increase. (Projected arbitration increases were included in totals)
If this is true - and other teams are increasing team salaries at a higher rate this off season - then it would seem to indicate that either the Tigers have reached the bottom of Mr. Illitch's pockets...or that they are at least making needed plans for bigger spending in a couple of years (re: Cabrera contract).
Perhaps for those screaming the loudest about Detroit's recent moves, maybe they should do some checking on what DD is being allowed to spend and how he is re-shaping future Tigers spending....instead of crying about every move that has occurred. Detroit is not going to ring up a $200 million team salary this off season.

Yes burf - I am not perfect, I make mistakes. But I do try and see both sides of any issue. Sadly that comes into conflict with those that cannot do that, and feel bitching and moaning will get them what they want.
Personally, my belief is that the Tigers blew it. They door was wide open for them in 2012 and 2013. They got close, but now it is time to pay the piper. Yes...on paper, Detroit may not look as good. But they still are a team that most will rank as a strong playoff contender....regardless of what the gloom and doomers say here.

 

[jalopy]

I also notice you use the dreaded "IF" alot...........

You mean once?

You assume that guys like Kinsler will not only equal their worst year in the majors but that their performance is going to fall off a cliff. You also assume that every prospect will completely fail. Statistically, it can't happen that every player will have their worst year in '14.

If you look at the lineup for the second half of last season, I believe the team has improved itself in the infield, outfield, BP and only downgraded slightly with their SP's. How are they going to be so much worse.

INFIELD-- Prince, Infante,Iggy, & Miggy vs Miggy, Kinsler, Iggy, & Nick C

Tigers improved drastically defensively and marginally offensively. I didn't include JP because of his suspension

OUTFIELD- Hunter, AJ, Dirks vs Hunter, AJ, Davis/ Dirks

Again, better offensively and defensively

Also, VMart won't be coming off an injury and one-year layoff and should improve on his numbers from las year.

 

[broncosmitty]

Well... If nothing else, this signing should make things fun over here at the reverse AL Central Smack Talk thread.

 

[Cleaves2000]

You mean once?

You assume that guys like Kinsler will not only equal their worst year in the majors but that their performance is going to fall off a cliff. You also assume that every prospect will completely fail. Statistically, it can't happen that every player will have their worst year in '14.

If you look at the lineup for the second half of last season, I believe the team has improved itself in the infield, outfield, BP and only downgraded slightly with their SP's. How are they going to be so much worse.

INFIELD-- Prince, Infante,Iggy, & Miggy vs Miggy, Kinsler, Iggy, & Nick C

Tigers improved drastically defensively and marginally offensively. I didn't include JP because of his suspension

OUTFIELD- Hunter, AJ, Dirks vs Hunter, AJ, Davis/ Dirks

Again, better offensively and defensively

Also, VMart won't be coming off an injury and one-year layoff and should improve on his numbers from las year.

I do like your positivity.

Kinsler has only batted .280 or higher 3 times. 06, 08, 10.....i guess im in the minority of thinking hes elite....

I dont see how losing infante and fielder and getting kinsler and nicky C....is a marginal upgrade....thats just homer talk.....man some fans are harsh on fielder....

So adding rajai davis helped us offensively in the OF

Why leave peralta off? Suspension? He missed 50 games and was huge in the playoffs.....some think rajai wont play as much as peralta did last year....

Vmart a year away from injury, but a year older and the added pressure of hitting 4th and protecting miggy....if he has a better year than last year, ill be surprised.

I still think detroit is decent.....but when you were so close to the WS.....you cant take steps back..


My main thing is you say we upgraded the BP......HOW?

You keep bringing up nathan.....but explain to me how hes such a huge upgrade over benoit....looking at benoits numbers last year.....he was pretty good as the closer.....too bad people only remember the big papi AB...where the BP loaded the bases and jimmy burnt his lefty option on ellsbury...

But yeah explain to me a BP with joba, coke, kroll, rondon, and AL AL has gotten better...

We lost veras benoit and smyly......veras is waaaaaay better than joba.....but im sure now that joba is a tiger, hes a stud!

 

[Ronnie]

This is what your pal cleaves thinks of the people here...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu
I'm gonna have to agree the Davis and Joba signings are stupid and trading Fister and Prince was also stupid, but as a Twins fan I love it. I do think the Nathan signing was a good move for the Tigers however.

CLEAVES RESPONSE:



Hey but on the tiger boards, they are great signings.....we got speed and defense now.....woopy fuckin doo

Theres a guy that says our BP has gotten better....

Even said our infield is better offensively with kinsler and nicky c over fielder and infante....

And adding rajai davis improved our OF offensively.....

 

[Ronnie]

But damn that Iffy guy....he is a real trouble maker. lmao

 

[jdwills126]

Kinsler has added value as he is a legit leadoff guy and that allows Detroit to move A Jax down in the order. He is no longer playing in the oven that is Arlington and that should help keep the guy from wearing down. Plus his speed will help keep Detroit out of the double play that killed them the last couple of years.

Peralta is a career .268 hitter with limited pop and my guess is the HR numbers will keep falling. I wonder why? Castellanos needs to hit better than .270 with 15-25 hr power and Detroit will be better off than when Peralta was in the lineup. Iggy needs to be a .235-.240 hitter which he should be as his defense makes him valuable.

A healthy Dirks and a Davis that hits right handed pitching is better than a hurt Dirks was last year.

The blow is Prince but he has been trending the wrong way. Although i think Arlington will help him until the heat saps him in August.

Detroit is pretty close to where they were last year offensively but are leaps and bounds better defensively. The bullpen will be the key. If you want to win the 4-3 games you better have solid guys coming out in the 7th, 8th, and 9th. And I think Nathan for Benoit is a slight upgrade.

 

[jalopy]

But damn that Iffy guy....he is a real trouble maker. lmao

I think Cleaves just doesn't see the value of speed and defense. It comes from not playing the game. Good baserunning is more than speed and you just don't win championships without it. How many times last year did we strand runners on third because they were too slow to score from second on a sing or from first on a double.
Defense is such a huge part of the game it is indescribable to those that just watch the game. Pitching when you are not confident in your defense affects you in multiple ways. You push for K's and try painting corners more than you should. Having a good defense will help our starters go deeper into the game. JV will be interesting to watch this year. I expect his K's to drop substantially and his pitch count not to go over 110-115.

The offense will likely score less runs but score on a more consistent basis. How many times did we get shutout last year? That number will certainly decrease.

 

[jalopy]

You keep bringing up nathan.....but explain to me how hes such a huge upgrade over benoit....looking at benoits numbers last year.....he was pretty good as the closer.....too bad people only remember the big papi AB...where the BP loaded the bases and jimmy burnt his lefty option on ellsbury...

There is a reason Benoit isn't back in Detroit. The team doesn't feel he has the mental makeup to be a closer. Other teams agree. The problem isn't necessarily his stuff. Closers need to get lefties and righties both out and have the confidence to do it. Benoit just doesn't have "IT". It is obvious you don't understand the game. As for Rondon, the kid has the stuff and the attitude to be a closer. He just needs to work on controlling his pitches better. He will be fine as the set-up guy if he stays healthy. The Tigers were 20-26 in 1-run games and 6-13 in extra innings. Want to place a bet that those numbers don't improve?

 

[jalopy]

So adding rajai davis helped us offensively in the OF?

If you don't think a batting line of .319/.383/.474 against lefties will be an improvement over what Dirks would provide against lefties, I don't know how to help you.

 

[Cleaves2000]

I think Cleaves just doesn't see the value of speed and defense. It comes from not playing the game. Good baserunning is more than speed and you just don't win championships without it. How many times last year did we strand runners on third because they were too slow to score from second on a sing or from first on a double.
Defense is such a huge part of the game it is indescribable to those that just watch the game. Pitching when you are not confident in your defense affects you in multiple ways. You push for K's and try painting corners more than you should. Having a good defense will help our starters go deeper into the game. JV will be interesting to watch this year. I expect his K's to drop substantially and his pitch count not to go over 110-115.

The offense will likely score less runs but score on a more consistent basis. How many times did we get shutout last year? That number will certainly decrease.

You can have ALL the speed in the world but they still have to get on....so the slow guys who were on base were usually vmart, prince and miggy....so unless davis gets on like fielder did, or kinsler raises his OBP....the speed guys might never be on to score.

Pitching when you are not confident in your defense? It looked like our starters had confidence last year...max won the cy....sanchez was brilliant....we had one of the best pitching staffs....3rd in ERA with a crappy pen....take coke, valverde, and al al off last years team and our pitchers pitched very confident.

I like how jalopy talks down like hes a professional player...

"It comes from not playing the game"......

"To those that just watch the game".....

Sometimes your posts are nice, but you got a GOD complex....

 

[Cleaves2000]

There is a reason Benoit isn't back in Detroit. The team doesn't feel he has the mental makeup to be a closer. Other teams agree. The problem isn't necessarily his stuff. Closers need to get lefties and righties both out and have the confidence to do it. Benoit just doesn't have "IT". It is obvious you don't understand the game. As for Rondon, the kid has the stuff and the attitude to be a closer. He just needs to work on controlling his pitches better. He will be fine as the set-up guy if he stays healthy. The Tigers were 20-26 in 1-run games and 6-13 in extra innings. Want to place a bet that those numbers don't improve?

But what did benoit do? He was very good last year....hes over pricing himself...hes judged by tiger fans for one pitch....i remember before the playoffs started most tiger fans were screaming CLOSER? We got our closer! Why didnt jimmy start benoit out as the closer? And so on....now its mental.....he looked fine to me last year...but yeah...i guess nathan will go 50 for 50 this year if the set up guys can get it to him...

I like nathan as a closer....but sorry....a team contending putting faith in a guy like rondon scares me..

They were 6-13 in extra innings because the pitchers they brought in usually were pitchers like putkonen and bonderman....nothing to do with benoit. So i guess we will win the xtra inning games this year because we added krol and joba.