Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2013 Thread

[Cleaves2000]

The same reason they don't pitch around Trout every at bat, or Votto, C. Davis, Goldschmidt, Cano, etc. Yes, Miggy will have a tougher time in 2014 unless VMart hits like he did in the second half, all season long. Look....the Tigers struggled on offense, for short periods, last year. But like every team...you hope that one or two of your guys play over their heads. What they had - wasn't working that well...so add some speed to the lineup and maybe you score more times with a double and a single. I am tired of station to station baseball and Miggy, Fielder, VMart, Peralta, and Avila chugging around the bases like Rush Limbaugh chasing Michael Moore and Fat Albert.

Like i said.....until i see who else is starting, im not falling for the we added speed.....kinsler filled in for infante.....kinslers numbers the last 2 yrs dont show me much speed or hitting for great avg.....actually on par with ajax considering ajax was never given the green light.....but 15 SB's is hardly adding big time speed.

 

[jalopy]

Your acting like the tigers got elsbury......compare ajax and kinsler the las 2 yrs....


Kinsler

2012. 256 avg. 326. OBP. 19 HR. 21 SB's. 60 BB
2013. 277. 344. 13. 15. 51


Ajax

2012. 300 avg. 377 OBP. 16 HR. 12 SB's. 67 BB
2013. 272. 337. 12. 8. 52


Not much of an upgrade to get on base in my eyes........kinslers avg hasnt been good since 08.

I notice you didn't include K's. The upgrade in my eyes is defensively. Iggy and Kins will be one of the best double play tandems in the league. I think you have to put them 1-2 in the lineup. It will help Fister and Porcello immensely.

 

[Cleaves2000]

I notice you didn't include K's. The upgrade in my eyes is defensively. Iggy and Kins will be one of the best double play tandems in the league. I think you have to put them 1-2 in the lineup. It will help Fister and Porcello immensely.

Iggy and kinsler are good defensively......but it wasnt like iggy and infante were bad.....and what does it matter if you K or pop out? An outs an out....im sure the leadoff hitter doesnt come up with the bases loaded and less than 2 outs that much.....your power guys are the ones you want to put the bat on the ball.....if he wasnt k'ing and getting on more than yeah....but let the ranger fans tell it....he uppercuts alot popping it up

 

[Cleaves2000]

Kinsler did K 90 times in 2012

 

[jalopy]

Iggy and kinsler are good defensively......but it wasnt like iggy and infante were bad.....and what does it matter if you K or pop out? An outs an out....im sure the leadoff hitter doesnt come up with the bases loaded and less than 2 outs that much.....your power guys are the ones you want to put the bat on the ball.....if he wasnt k'ing and getting on more than yeah....but let the ranger fans tell it....he uppercuts alot popping it up

Good point. Ideally, AJ would lead off and Kinsler would hit 2nd because he handles the bat better. Problem is the K's and horrible baserunning by AJ. His September and October were troubling and probably affect judgement more than they should.

 

[jalopy]

Kinsler did K 90 times in 2012

Exception to the rule. Besides AJ averages over 150 per year, almost matching his number of hits. Also, I just read a report that AJ is on the block (NESN). Interesting.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Good point. Ideally, AJ would lead off and Kinsler would hit 2nd because he handles the bat better. Problem is the K's and horrible baserunning by AJ. His September and October were troubling and probably affect judgement more than they should.

The problem is going to be to find a number 5 hitter to at least make teams think twice about walking miggy.....i like victor, but he doesnt put the fear into pitchers....hes a slow singles hitter.....a slowed down version of joe mauer.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Exception to the rule. Besides AJ averages over 150 per year, almost matching his number of hits. Also, I just read a report that AJ is on the block (NESN). Interesting.

If ajax is on the block we better be signing choo or elsbury......ajax had 129 K's last year....134 the year before

 

[jalopy]

If ajax is on the block we better be signing choo or elsbury......ajax had 129 K's last year....134 the year before

Agreed. Not sure I like the value of either. Maybe Trout is on the way for Scherzer and AJ. Thanks for the conversation, hip-hop.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Agreed. Not sure I like the value of either. Maybe Trout is on the way for Scherzer and AJ. Thanks for the conversation, hip-hop.

Mlives reporting it too.....said if he was traded the tigers would be interested in elsbury or choo.......they also bring up beltran.....2 yrs 34 million wouldnt break the bank and allow us to still sign max and miggy.

 

[Ronnie]

I think the trading of Fielder was more to save cash down the road than to improve the offense. Fielder's contract was going to be a burden, probably sooner than later. DD's job is to not only put a winning team on the field, but he expected to help optimize earnings. I think getting rid of the Fielder albatross make the Tiger Baseball Corporation more valuable down the road. For various reasons, the lineup of players/coaches in the last 3 years did not deliver. Now they are going to shake things up a little (or a lot) and see what they get.

Remember when everyone here moaned and groaned about the inconsistent offense...well DD is doing something. A lot of fans just wanted him to sit back and BUY the answers to all the problems. Well...I guess the bank wasn't bursting at the seams as many thought. To make future moves, DD felt it needed to get rid of one major asset - Fielder - which will free up money for him to do more.

 

[broncosmitty]

His power numbers were slightly higher the two years of Prince but we sacrificed in the field to get that. There is a reason Miggy doesn't lead off. His skills aren't optimized without runners on. No one questions that. If Kins and AJ hit .290, the Tigers overall production will increase and be more consistency. Miggy's IBB's will also likely go through the roof.

His everything numbers went up with Prince behind him. IMO it was no coincidence. If AJ and Kinsler both hit .290 ill but a Raburn Indians jersey.

 

[Ronnie]

From what I've read, Detroit saved $76mil in this trade....not all at once, of course. But with that $76 million, Detroit could sign both Nathan and Peralta. (three year deals, so money is spread out). If trading Fielder was needed to gain the money to do this - then the trade is a good one. Maybe your choice was to not trade Fielder....but I'll take Kinsler + Nathan + Peralta over 'just' Fielder, any day.

 

[Dutchis59]

From what I've read, Detroit saved $76mil in this trade....not all at once, of course. But with that $76 million, Detroit could sign both Nathan and Peralta. (three year deals, so money is spread out). If trading Fielder was needed to gain the money to do this - then the trade is a good one. Maybe your choice was to not trade Fielder....but I'll take Kinsler + Nathan + Peralta over 'just' Fielder, any day.

Fielder 168 Million over 7 years, Kinsler 69 Million over 5 years with club option of 12 million the last year or 5 million buyout. 30 million to Texas with the trade 76 or 69 million saved add to that, Infante UFA 4 million last year and will probably get 8 million plus is odds on favorite to be gone.

 

[jalopy]

From what I've read, Detroit saved $76mil in this trade....not all at once, of course. But with that $76 million, Detroit could sign both Nathan and Peralta. (three year deals, so money is spread out). If trading Fielder was needed to gain the money to do this - then the trade is a good one. Maybe your choice was to not trade Fielder....but I'll take Kinsler + Nathan + Peralta over 'just' Fielder, any day.

I think it is a bit rash to assess this trade until all the deals are done. No one, including DD, knows exactly how the saved money will be spent at this time and who will be on the roster come February. We can all speculate but we can be outbid on FA's, snubbed with trade offers, etc.. I think the key in the Fielder trade is how the Tiger's brass has evaluated Nick C. Where should he play and what do they project his offensive numbers to be?

Also the notion that the trade is going to save the Tiger's $76MM in the next three years is ludicrous (unless the extra cost savings come from the buffet table). The difference in contracts is $24MM in the next three years and the '16 season will include the first $6MM payment to the Rangers so you can deduct that.

 

[jalopy]

....unless Peralta is willing to take significantly less than market value to stay in DTW, he is gone. Why would you pay a premium price for someone that isn't an exact fit. Better to spend it on Choo or Ellsbury if you they fit your needs better.

 

[broncosmitty]

....unless Peralta is willing to take significantly less than market value to stay in DTW, he is gone. Why would you pay a premium price for someone that isn't an exact fit. Better to spend it on Choo or Ellsbury if you they fit your needs better.

Is Peralta expected to get premium money? He's played third before, quality hitter, knows the organization.... Im not sure there are going to be many suitors for Jhonny as far as a starting position goes. He just got popped for juicing and as we know, has the range of a tetherball pole. If he seriously is in the 15mil range he wouldn't be a good signing. Just not sure he is that type of FA.

 

[broncosmitty]

Something I haven't seen mentioned on here is the status of Second Base Prospect and Tiger minor leaguer of the year, Devon Travis. Unless there are plans to move Kinsler to a new position or another team within the next several seasons Travis would be an obvious trade chip to me. Like Nicky C the last two years, he's talent without an MLB spot to fill. Wonder if he makes it thru the winter in the organization? Or maybe his value can be maximized at the deadline?

 

[jdwills126]

The assumption is Cabrera stays as the #3. And V Mart goes to 4 hole. The order will get shuffled as Ausmus will run things differently than leyland. Ausmus is a NL guy so I think we may see a different style of game as well.

IMO Miggy playing 1b will keep him healthy as well as improving the Tigers defense.

I think most fans that bash Fielder for the playoffs are being overly critical as more than just Fielder didn't show up! But the responses afterwards did't endear Fielder to Detroit fans. He seemed like a bad fit in Detroit between the contract numbers and position. I hope he does well in Texas.

 

[jalopy]

Is Peralta expected to get premium money? He's played third before, quality hitter, knows the organization.... Im not sure there are going to be many suitors for Jhonny as far as a starting position goes. He just got popped for juicing and as we know, has the range of a tetherball pole. If he seriously is in the 15mil range he wouldn't be a good signing. Just not sure he is that type of FA.

I agree with you and until the dominoes start falling, it is pure speculation. His range is obviously poor and it appears the Tigers are trying to improve defensively. I guess I am still stuck on the thought that Ilitch doesn't want him because of the juicing.