Defensive Holding - Crackdown by Refs?

[tallglassofwater007]

it is easy to point to the Seahawks, but we depend on our D too? if they enforce this rule, then quality passing QB's (Brees, Peyton, etc.) will complete more passes against us.

on the flip side, do we have a quality passer who'll take advantage of this enforcement?

But seattle D make their living off of these penalties. Ours doesn't.

 

[deep9er]

But seattle D make their living off of these penalties. Ours doesn't.

there are two points really, the first is Seattle CB's and yes we're all happy they'll enforce it on them.

the second is the 49ers vs every good passing QB we'll face...including the SB. so just looking at the 49ers, some QB's will take more advantage of this, than the 49ers on them.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I wasn't calling it the seattle rule because they are doing it despite that team. I am calling it the seattle rule because that team makes it's living off of this shit. Sure, they are a really good defense either way, but they were not only the most penalized team, in terms of defensive holding, PI, and illegal contact.... but they had an entire story with refs about it. They said that they are specifically told by league officials not to call the same penalty over and over. Keep the games moving. So they didn't call a lot of them. They reviewed 6 games from seattle and saw that they could have been called for 60 more penalties (not tick tacky, but legit) for PI, illegal contact and defensive holding. Average of 10 a game that aren't called. And I know people say there are holding every play and if you look at any team you would see the same, but there is a pattern here. I will look for the article but haven't been able to find it.

It is actually smart on seattles part to exploit the loophole. It also said that denver did the same thing with pick plays on offense. They realize that they might get called for a couple a game, if that, but you get much more benefit by the times it isn't called.

It's a copy cat league... When teams have success doing something other teams bite onto it and that's normal and how the league operates... Every opponent watches the tape and game film and if Seattle was getting away with something you better believe other teams would be implementing the same strategy... This isn't some secret to other teams or to the league... It's ridiculous to think Seattle is the only team that exploited some loophole all year long... Not a chance... Our corners are just good at jamming upfront and we have size overall and it's difficult to throw over the top on them...

 

[deep9er]

It's a copy cat league... When teams have success doing something other teams bite onto it and that's normal and how the league operates... Every opponent watches the tape and game film and if Seattle was getting away with something you better believe other teams would be implementing the same strategy... This isn't some secret to other teams or to the league... It's ridiculous to think Seattle is the only team that exploited some loophole all year long... Not a chance... Our corners are just good at jamming upfront and we have size overall and it's difficult to throw over the top on them...

yep. its not only Seattle CB's that play aggressively. they may be the worse at it, but not the only.......as the article pointed out.

IMO what's done is done, and the 49ers can only look forward and consider how this 'enforcement' affects us THIS season? same with Seattle and their upcoming season.

so when i look at this season and the ability to be less aggressive on pass plays.....seems we face more quality passers than Kaep? looking ahead further to the play-offs, for sure we'll run into at least one top passer.

 

[Pattersonca65]

It's a copy cat league... When teams have success doing something other teams bite onto it and that's normal and how the league operates... Every opponent watches the tape and game film and if Seattle was getting away with something you better believe other teams would be implementing the same strategy... This isn't some secret to other teams or to the league... It's ridiculous to think Seattle is the only team that exploited some loophole all year long... Not a chance... Our corners are just good at jamming upfront and we have size overall and it's difficult to throw over the top on them...

Yes, it is a copy cat league. But you also need to have the personnel to play a phyiscal style of football. There has been a recent trend by other teams to draft big physical corners who can play like Seattle's DBs. It is not just about jamming WR's at the line of scrimmage. Seattle's DB's engage in contact beyond five years. Seattle led the lead the league in Defensive Pass Interference penalties last year. So its not as if they are always getting away with it all of the time. But they are playing physical downfield and seem willing to trade off a few extra calls for playing physical downfield.

 

[joshuar56]

I think it's going to result in a lot of flags, hopefully a few more fall when the Seahawks Secondary is holding WR's down field.

It might at first, but teams will adjust. If Seattle racks up 200 yards a game in penalties, they'll adjust.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Yes, it is a copy cat league. But you also need to have the personnel to play a phyiscal style of football. There has been a recent trend by other teams to draft big physical corners who can play like Seattle's DBs. It is not just about jamming WR's at the line of scrimmage. Seattle's DB's engage in contact beyond five years. Seattle led the lead the league in Defensive Pass Interference penalties last year. So its not as if they are always getting away with it all of the time. But they are playing physical downfield and seem willing to trade off a few extra calls for playing physical downfield.

Agree... And yeah you do need the personnel, but even if a team is less talented in the backfield, it doesn't mean they can't mimic the strategy.. But I agree with what your saying...

 

[tallglassofwater007]

It's a copy cat league... When teams have success doing something other teams bite onto it and that's normal and how the league operates... Every opponent watches the tape and game film and if Seattle was getting away with something you better believe other teams would be implementing the same strategy... This isn't some secret to other teams or to the league... It's ridiculous to think Seattle is the only team that exploited some loophole all year long... Not a chance... Our corners are just good at jamming upfront and we have size overall and it's difficult to throw over the top on them...

They are good at jamming up front, but great at jamming 10 -15 yards downfield.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

They are good at jamming up front, but great at jamming 10 -15 yards downfield.

Disagree... There great at covering 10-15 yards downfield... Rules are rules and every team's gotta play by um...

 

[mem49er]

That's not even the worst of it. Apparently you're allowed to literally shove a referee like 4 yards without being thrown out of the game or even called for a penalty. But we all know this already; it was one of the all-time biggest screw-jobs along with the 2005 Seahawks & the 2008 Cardinals & 2007 Chargers.

It's getting easier and easier to play offense in the NFL. It's not even worth comparing the old greats to current players any more because the game isn't even the same game as it used to be. I still love it, but the NFL, but it's an entirely different sport than the one Joe Montana & Dwight Clark played.

All of this

 

[Pattersonca65]

Good article from ESPN on defensive holding this year

NFL - Passing offenses likely to benefit as penalties for defensive holding, illegal contact increase - ESPN

 

[deep9er]

Good article from ESPN on defensive holding this year

NFL - Passing offenses likely to benefit as penalties for defensive holding, illegal contact increase - ESPN

more so the general offensive philosophy has to lean more pass. believe it was 54% run, 46% pass last year, so it'll have to go AT LEAST 50/50.

now can our offensive be successful at passing over the entire field? we'll have to wait and see.

 

[HighTopFade]

I like what Fangio had to say.

"We've always taught our players to play with the technique that's within the rules," said San Francisco 49ers defensive coordinator Vic Fangio. "The officiating has been instructed to be more diligent in that area. We saw a negative with that [in Thursday's game at Baltimore]. … They called us for an illegal contact penalty, which in no way, shape or form was an illegal contact penalty. And the league's already confirmed that it wasn't. You hate to think that these guys have been drilled into their head that they're seeing ghosts out there now, too. … We hope that stuff gets cleaned up by the time the regular season comes."

 

[deep9er]

our D will have to limit the amount of TD's. give up more yards is ok, if the TD's are kept down.

 

[Pattersonca65]

more so the general offensive philosophy has to lean more pass. believe it was 54% run, 46% pass last year, so it'll have to go AT LEAST 50/50.

now can our offensive be successful at passing over the entire field? we'll have to wait and see.

Comments from training camp suggests that passing game looks better in terms of spreading the ball around. Hope that continues into the regular season

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Considering the road to the Superbowl runs through Seattle (perhaps literally) I can't understand why you guys are complaining. Imagine if that secondary wasn't allowed to get away with murder.

I can understand complaining that this helps offenses more or whatever but if really all it is is putting all teams on a level playing field and forcing Seattle to be less physical, I can't see it being anything but a good thing.

Dude you don't get it... Stop thinking Seattle holds that's why there good.... THIS WILL affect your secondary more than ours... Were deeper in that area so good luck stopping Russell Wilson and our fast receivers if you can't put a dam feeler out... Holding they already call, It's the no contact rule that's gonna make it almost impossible... Dude it's frustrating hearing people think this will just affect Seattle.... This is about the entire league not just Seattle...

 

[purguy12]

These new rules is killing football. I can't even watch a football game anymore. I watched the saints game I think there were 48 flags. That is insane. They need to chill with all these calls. Offense already has the advantage and now Defenses have no shot with the calls they have been making.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

These new rules is killing football. I can't even watch a football game anymore. I watched the saints game I think there were 48 flags. That is insane. They need to chill with all these calls. Offense already has the advantage and now Defenses have no shot with the calls they have been making.

Couldn't agree more... Holding should always be called, but the no contact rule is what's killing any chance to play pass coverage... The game is almost unwatchable because db's are backing WAY off and still getting called... It's beyond @#$^ing ridiculous...

 

[Pattersonca65]

Dude you don't get it... Stop thinking Seattle holds that's why there good.... THIS WILL affect your secondary more than ours... Were deeper in that area so good luck stopping Russell Wilson and our fast receivers if you can't put a dam feeler out... Holding they already call, It's the no contact rule that's gonna make it almost impossible... Dude it's frustrating hearing people think this will just affect Seattle.... This is about the entire league not just Seattle...

I don't buy this at all. Seattle's secondary plays much more physical than our DBs. Pete Carroll has tested the limit with the amount of contact his DBs can get away with beyond five yards. If the league begins to strictly call contact beyond five yards it is going to change the way all DBs play beyond 5 yards, especially Seattle. All teams are adjusting to it and how much this rule will ultimately affect each team remains to be seen.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I don't buy this at all. Seattle's secondary plays much more physical than our DBs. Pete Carroll has tested the limit with the amount of contact his DBs can get away with beyond five yards. If the league begins to strictly call contact beyond five yards it is going to change the way all DBs play beyond 5 yards, especially Seattle. All teams are adjusting to it and how much this rule will ultimately affect each team remains to be seen.

No contact was tried in 2004... Didn't work out... Ironically it was Manning again the year prior getting beat up by the Patriots when he was a Colt .... So we already know how this rule affects the game... You can't expect a DB to not put a feeler out when playing defense... This is not about holding, it's about no contact and throwing the flag because a receiver is barely touched... It's asking the impossible... contact happens on almost every play when a DB is covering a receiver..... NFL simply wants more offense PERIOD, it's not about Pete Carroll doing something other coaches haven't done or seen... They review the tapes and it's a copy cat league..