Defensive Holding - Crackdown by Refs?

[deep9er]

we will never have 'perfect' officiating, cause that's just human nature. when it is in our favor, we 'glance over' it, but when it is against us we rant and rage, and can't forget it??!!

our team has to play on no matter the call, cause you can't let that call make the rest of the game worse.

in the larger picture of a football GAME, one bad call shouldn't be the lone, deciding factor. granted, when that call is near the end of a game, its magnified.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

we will never have 'perfect' officiating, cause that's just human nature. when it is in our favor, we 'glance over' it, but when it is against us we rant and rage, and can't forget it??!!

our team has to play on no matter the call, cause you can't let that call make the rest of the game worse.

in the larger picture of a football GAME, one bad call shouldn't be the lone, deciding factor. granted, when that call is near the end of a game, its magnified.

Perhaps not - though they say it's a game of inches for a reason - but a series of bad calls or no-calls over the course of a game can make a huge difference. There were a number of reasons for the SB loss, but the piss poor officiating throughout the game absolutely shifted the balance.

And while you can always look at a number of plays that could have changed the outcome of a game, the Brees penalty, for instance, was a HUGE call. Instead of the Niners' ball and a three-point lead late in that game, the Saints proceeded to gain six more yards on the drive and kicked a FG to tie the game. There is an undeniable psychological impact that accompanies a call like that. And that game proved decisive in the NFC standings.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

You guy's calling this the Seattle rule better wake up... This isn't about Seattle, it's about the league and another attempt to help out the offense..... Remember the no touch rule implemented back in 2004 and the ridiculous offensive production that year.... This will affect EVERY defense in the NFL not just ours... Every corner has some contact playing one on one... That's just a fact... NFL had to back off of the no touch rule because it was just handing offenses points and yards... Looks like they might try that crap again and I bet you money the Super Bowl had something to do with it... Goodell was butt hurt watching Denvers offense get stifled...

 

[Rvnight18]

You guy's calling this the Seattle rule better wake up... This isn't about Seattle, it's about the league and another attempt to help out the offense..... Remember the no touch rule implemented back in 2004 and the ridiculous offensive production that year.... This will affect EVERY defense in the NFL not just ours... Every corner has some contact playing one on one... That's just a fact... NFL had to back off of the no touch rule because it was just handing offenses points and yards... Looks like they might try that crap again and I bet you money the Super Bowl had something to do with it... Goodell was butt hurt watching Denvers offense get stifled...

So they're all typing while sleeping? That's being productive. Great use of time. I say keep it up.

 

[Rvnight18]

You guy's calling this the Seattle rule better wake up... This isn't about Seattle, it's about the league and another attempt to help out the offense..... Remember the no touch rule implemented back in 2004 and the ridiculous offensive production that year.... This will affect EVERY defense in the NFL not just ours... Every corner has some contact playing one on one... That's just a fact... NFL had to back off of the no touch rule because it was just handing offenses points and yards... Looks like they might try that crap again and I bet you money the Super Bowl had something to do with it... Goodell was butt hurt watching Denvers offense get stifled...

But seriously, you can't deny that this will hurt Seattle more than other teams. Saying otherwise is just rediculous. Wether one agrees with the rule or not, it will affect seattle's defense. Their secondary gets away with a lot of calls. Good for them for using it to their advantage. But let's see how well Sherman does when he can't hold every play.

 

[NinerSickness]

But let's see how well Sherman does when he can't hold every play.

He'll still be able to. The stars will still get star treatment regardless of the rule emphasis. The amount of flags you get and how many eyeballs & media segments are on you are inversely proportional.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

But seriously, you can't deny that this will hurt Seattle more than other teams. Saying otherwise is just rediculous. Wether one agrees with the rule or not, it will affect seattle's defense. Their secondary gets away with a lot of calls. Good for them for using it to their advantage. But let's see how well Sherman does when he can't hold every play.

The rules apply to all NFL teams so I doubt there is a Sherman rule where he get's away with more... Maybe he's sneakier about it sure but I think allot of what he does is just flat out good corner play... Look how much has already been taken away from defenses... I remember the Patriots after they beat the Colts the next season the no touch rule was implemented similar to what's happening here... Ironically the Colts were whining about the Patriots being physical with there corners in the playoffs in 2003 .... The next season if you recall in 2004 offensive production was up MASSIVELY around the league... They backed off later in the season because players were speaking up about how bad the rule was for the game...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

ON another note what do you guy's think about making PI call's like college ? 15 yard penalty for PI call not a spot foul... People make the argument then db's will just maul a receiver when there beat and take the 15 yards but if you watch college ball it's not and issue... Personally I hate the spot foul because sometimes these refs call tick tack call's and it's and easy 50 yards for and offense.... I like defense man!!! I can't stand up and down the field arena league football...

 

[Xponentialchaos]

15 yards would definitely be better than our current PI rule.

 

[imac_21]

15 yards would definitely be better than our current PI rule.

Until CBs and S start tackling WRs on deep balls when they get beat. Why let Calvin Johnson beat you deep if you can just grab him and hold him to a 15 yard "gain"? If he beats you by two steps, just run right through him. Don't worry about playing the ball.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Until CBs and S start tackling WRs on deep balls when they get beat. Why let Calvin Johnson beat you deep if you can just grab him and hold him to a 15 yard "gain"? If he beats you by two steps, just run right through him. Don't worry about playing the ball.

It's still giving 15 free yards though if you grab someone... 15 yards Auto firsts down makes you think twice before just grabbing someone because it's still a big penalty... Qb can overthrow the receiver, ball can be dropped ... That's why in college it hasn't been and issue.... If you grab your totally giving up on the play and you just never know if the ball is gonna get there....

 

[Pattersonca65]

ON another note what do you guy's think about making PI call's like college ? 15 yard penalty for PI call not a spot foul... People make the argument then db's will just maul a receiver when there beat and take the 15 yards but if you watch college ball it's not and issue... Personally I hate the spot foul because sometimes these refs call tick tack call's and it's and easy 50 yards for and offense.... I like defense man!!! I can't stand up and down the field arena league football...

I like the spot foul for obvious downfield offenses. DBs already do that sometimes. I have seen them take spot fouls rather than give up a sure TD. If all PI calls were just 15 yards, I suspect those would happen more often.

 

[imac_21]

It's still giving 15 free yards though if you grab someone... 15 yards Auto firsts down makes you think twice before just grabbing someone because it's still a big penalty... Qb can overthrow the receiver, ball can be dropped ... That's why in college it hasn't been and issue.... If you grab your totally giving up on the play and you just never know if the ball is gonna get there....

I'm talking about those situations where the WR has clearly beaten the DB. It happens 2 or 3 times a week in all the games combined. If you get torched and your choices are give up a 45 yard catch, or just steamroll through the WR and take 15 yards, which do you take?

 

[Pattersonca65]

But seriously, you can't deny that this will hurt Seattle more than other teams. Saying otherwise is just rediculous. Wether one agrees with the rule or not, it will affect seattle's defense. Their secondary gets away with a lot of calls. Good for them for using it to their advantage. But let's see how well Sherman does when he can't hold every play.

I think there are many corners in the league tht play physical and grab but Seattle's is probably the most physical. I've noticed Sherman tends to grab quiet a bit, a receivers hands or shoulders, just enough to often disrupt a timing route. I think they get away with alittle more because they are very physical to begin with.

My question is, do the current rules forbid all contact beyond 5 yards, and are the refs being lenient on enforcement? I don't know.

What also is interesting is that this is a copycat league. Teams are trying to copy the Seahawks by drafting and finding big physical corners. The 49ers are doing this also. Is this rule change going to change this trend?

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Until CBs and S start tackling WRs on deep balls when they get beat. Why let Calvin Johnson beat you deep if you can just grab him and hold him to a 15 yard "gain"? If he beats you by two steps, just run right through him. Don't worry about playing the ball.

Yup, definitely has flaws. But still better than what we have imo.

I honestly think our current PI rule is just about as terrible as humanly possible.

 

[CalamityX11]

ON another note what do you guy's think about making PI call's like college ? 15 yard penalty for PI call not a spot foul... People make the argument then db's will just maul a receiver when there beat and take the 15 yards but if you watch college ball it's not and issue... Personally I hate the spot foul because sometimes these refs call tick tack call's and it's and easy 50 yards for and offense.... I like defense man!!! I can't stand up and down the field arena league football...

well I can see it as both ways...

For the 15 yard penalty, I think its good. Doesn't give teams bullsh*t gains for ticky tack fouls. If there's to be an increase in calling the PI's, then maybe the 15 yards are better served rather than the spot.

For the rule to remain, I agree with it as well lol.... say Jordan Matthews beats Brock down the sideline, a good 20-25 gain that if caught could propel them to the GW FG or score however Brock tackles him or easly impedes the WR. Thinking of it like goaltending to a degree, the ball should be spotted at the spot of the foul rather than 15 yards from the LOS. If that's the case then many teams will go for the penalty if it was the lessor of two evils IMO.

I see an argument for either way...

 

[tallglassofwater007]

You guy's calling this the Seattle rule better wake up... This isn't about Seattle, it's about the league and another attempt to help out the offense..... Remember the no touch rule implemented back in 2004 and the ridiculous offensive production that year.... This will affect EVERY defense in the NFL not just ours... Every corner has some contact playing one on one... That's just a fact... NFL had to back off of the no touch rule because it was just handing offenses points and yards... Looks like they might try that crap again and I bet you money the Super Bowl had something to do with it... Goodell was butt hurt watching Denvers offense get stifled...

I wasn't calling it the seattle rule because they are doing it despite that team. I am calling it the seattle rule because that team makes it's living off of this shit. Sure, they are a really good defense either way, but they were not only the most penalized team, in terms of defensive holding, PI, and illegal contact.... but they had an entire story with refs about it. They said that they are specifically told by league officials not to call the same penalty over and over. Keep the games moving. So they didn't call a lot of them. They reviewed 6 games from seattle and saw that they could have been called for 60 more penalties (not tick tacky, but legit) for PI, illegal contact and defensive holding. Average of 10 a game that aren't called. And I know people say there are holding every play and if you look at any team you would see the same, but there is a pattern here. I will look for the article but haven't been able to find it.

It is actually smart on seattles part to exploit the loophole. It also said that denver did the same thing with pick plays on offense. They realize that they might get called for a couple a game, if that, but you get much more benefit by the times it isn't called.

 

[Rvnight18]

The rules apply to all NFL teams so I doubt there is a Sherman rule where he get's away with more... Maybe he's sneakier about it sure but I think allot of what he does is just flat out good corner play... Look how much has already been taken away from defenses... I remember the Patriots after they beat the Colts the next season the no touch rule was implemented similar to what's happening here... Ironically the Colts were whining about the Patriots being physical with there corners in the playoffs in 2003 .... The next season if you recall in 2004 offensive production was up MASSIVELY around the league... They backed off later in the season because players were speaking up about how bad the rule was for the game...

When the people around the league start saying that Seattle's game plan is to hold on every play they can because they know the refs wont throw a flag on every play. This isn't a 49er fan crying and complaining, I said it was smart of them to employ this strategy. I don't like the rule. I'm just saying if they start calling them more often, it will hurt Seattle more than other teams because of their physical style.

 

[poewelch84]

I think it's going to result in a lot of flags, hopefully a few more fall when the Seahawks Secondary is holding WR's down field.

 

[deep9er]

it is easy to point to the Seahawks, but we depend on our D too? if they enforce this rule, then quality passing QB's (Brees, Peyton, etc.) will complete more passes against us.

on the flip side, do we have a quality passer who'll take advantage of this enforcement?