(dead to me ) Bengals game thread cause no one else did

[cincygrad]

Agreed.

I've been hard on the Defense the last 2 years, and while I realize that last year was derailed due to injury - there were major strides needed in some areas. Those areas, for the most part, have been addressed. Especially LB. CB should be better with the return of Waynes.

Offensively - this is very disappointing. Again - either Burrow is not healthy enough to take the hits, or this team is going to just play offense scared and leave the defense out to dry.

Either he's out there to open up the offense and be himself as much as he can, or Taylor is afraid he's going to get hurt, in which case they should bench Burrow until he's either 100% ready, or they wash this season as a loss again and finally spend money on the OL to actually protect him.

And here's where game management comes into play.... If you are too limited because of an injured QB or a leaky line AND your D is serviceable, then you need to think about your plans. That probably means you're not going for it on 4 down on your side of the field. It probably also means that you're going to stay committed to the run more. Shorten the game.... Play field position. Shit... I just realized that we need Marvin back and now my head hurts.

 

[cincygrad]

And here's where game management comes into play.... If you are too limited because of an injured QB or a leaky line AND your D is serviceable, then you need to think about your plans. That probably means you're not going for it on 4 down on your side of the field. It probably also means that you're going to stay committed to the run more. Shorten the game.... Play field position. Shit... I just realized that we need Marvin back and now my head hurts.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

And here's where game management comes into play.... If you are too limited because of an injured QB or a leaky line AND your D is serviceable, then you need to think about your plans. That probably means you're not going for it on 4 down on your side of the field. It probably also means that you're going to stay committed to the run more. Shorten the game.... Play field position. Shit... I just realized that we need Marvin back and now my head hurts.

We need a happy medium between Marvin's conservative calls, and Taylor's nutty calls.

Question....would the fan base be willing to sacrifice Jesse Bates and let him walk at the end of the year to sign a high priced FA lineman? Or would it be more worth it, to trade Bates for one who is no later than 28 with a couple years on his contract still? If yes, which position do you trade for on that line and how much do you give him to re-up?

You could always franchise Bates and trade him prior to the draft for a couple firsts maybe. At least 1 st and a conditional pick capable of being a second 1st like Jamal Adams was. But then again, you are taking a chance on a rookie with no NFL experience and pushing the quality of the line one more year into the future.

We have two years before something has to give, because Burrow will make 40 million a year. Unless he is like Brady, and while I doubt he is as giving as Brady with his contracts, because he doesn't have a rich wife, he may be willing to leave a little bit of money on the table to keep players around him.

Thoughts?

 

[Cincyfan78]

We need a happy medium between Marvin's conservative calls, and Taylor's nutty calls.

Question....would the fan base be willing to sacrifice Jesse Bates and let him walk at the end of the year to sign a high priced FA lineman? Or would it be more worth it, to trade Bates for one who is no later than 28 with a couple years on his contract still? If yes, which position do you trade for on that line and how much do you give him to re-up?

You could always franchise Bates and trade him prior to the draft for a couple firsts maybe. At least 1 st and a conditional pick capable of being a second 1st like Jamal Adams was. But then again, you are taking a chance on a rookie with no NFL experience and pushing the quality of the line one more year into the future.

We have two years before something has to give, because Burrow will make 40 million a year. Unless he is like Brady, and while I doubt he is as giving as Brady with his contracts, because he doesn't have a rich wife, he may be willing to leave a little bit of money on the table to keep players around him.

Thoughts?

You may have to. These were week 2 PFF scores for the OL:

• Jonah Williams: 45.2
• Quinton Spain: 48.5
• Trey Hopkins: 64.8
• Xavier Sua-Filo: 41.7
• Riley Reiff: 58.4

YIKES

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think you look at a LT and look to move Williams to RT.

You have to hope that Carman works out at RG/LG and just scrap him going to RT.

Then you have to draft a 1st round/2nd round guy for LT and LG/RG.

I'd still look to upgrade from Hopkins at C...we need a guy that can make line calls because right now, the pre-snap adjustments just are not there, and that's usually on the QB/C. Joe needs help.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I think you look at a LT and look to move Williams to RT.

You have to hope that Carman works out at RG/LG and just scrap him going to RT.

Then you have to draft a 1st round/2nd round guy for LT and LG/RG.

I'd still look to upgrade from Hopkins at C...we need a guy that can make line calls because right now, the pre-snap adjustments just are not there, and that's usually on the QB/C. Joe needs help.

Any of those Brown's offensive lineman going to be FA this offseason?

 

[cincygrad]

You may have to. These were week 2 PFF scores for the OL:

• Jonah Williams: 45.2
• Quinton Spain: 48.5
• Trey Hopkins: 64.8
• Xavier Sua-Filo: 41.7
• Riley Reiff: 58.4

YIKES

Well shit. I don't think any Bengals fans had any concerns about how we addressed the guard position in the offseason. I mean, nobody could have predicted this. Dumb luck I guess.

What makes it even worse is that our franchise has historically been such a believe in the guard position. I can't think of a time where we lost a guard that was at the top of his game.

 

[cincygrad]

We need a happy medium between Marvin's conservative calls, and Taylor's nutty calls.

Question....would the fan base be willing to sacrifice Jesse Bates and let him walk at the end of the year to sign a high priced FA lineman? Or would it be more worth it, to trade Bates for one who is no later than 28 with a couple years on his contract still? If yes, which position do you trade for on that line and how much do you give him to re-up?

You could always franchise Bates and trade him prior to the draft for a couple firsts maybe. At least 1 st and a conditional pick capable of being a second 1st like Jamal Adams was. But then again, you are taking a chance on a rookie with no NFL experience and pushing the quality of the line one more year into the future.

We have two years before something has to give, because Burrow will make 40 million a year. Unless he is like Brady, and while I doubt he is as giving as Brady with his contracts, because he doesn't have a rich wife, he may be willing to leave a little bit of money on the table to keep players around him.

Thoughts?

I don't see what one has to do with the other..... The Bengals have the money to sign both. They still have a franchise QB with one year left before they start thinking about the monster extension. Now is the time for them to frontload some contracts on key players. If Bates is one of them, make it happen. But his contract shouldn't stop them from picking up a top lineman.

I don't think Bates makes enough game-changing plays to be the highest paid safety in the league. I'm guessing this is the sticking point in the negotiations and it probably should be. For as much as we talk about how important he is to the team, I think he needs to contribute to turning the ball over more.

 

[cincygrad]

Interesting stat. Is Joe holding the ball too long? Receivers still not getting separation? Scheme issues?

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Interesting stat. Is Joe holding the ball too long? Receivers still not getting separation? Scheme issues?

But I thought it was all our offensive lines fault with their horrible pff scores?

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I don't see what one has to do with the other..... The Bengals have the money to sign both. They still have a franchise QB with one year left before they start thinking about the monster extension. Now is the time for them to frontload some contracts on key players. If Bates is one of them, make it happen. But his contract shouldn't stop them from picking up a top lineman.

I don't think Bates makes enough game-changing plays to be the highest paid safety in the league. I'm guessing this is the sticking point in the negotiations and it probably should be. For as much as we talk about how important he is to the team, I think he needs to contribute to turning the ball over more.

I think it does because you are going to have contacts coming up due soon also. Not just burrow. We have invested so much money in the defense that we sacked the offensive line. Don't you think?

 

[Cincyfan78]

But I thought it was all our offensive lines fault with their horrible pff scores?

Well, there is the OL PFF score and then there are game plans that absolutely mitigate any good blocking Burrow actually gets.

When you plan a game around 5 yard digs, outs, and ins, and the defense puts 8-9 within 10 yards of the LOS - a lot of guys are going to be covered.

I think, in this instance, we are seeing a perfect storm of bad blocking with poor play calling. When one works, the other fails.

 

[cincygrad]

The Bengals are also 29th in play-action plays.

I think the spread is a good option for Burrow - But it needs to be mixed in with other offense. What they were doing in Chicago was not working and it will definitely not work against Pittsburgh.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The Bengals are also 29th in play-action plays.

I think the spread is a good option for Burrow - But it needs to be mixed in with other offense. What they were doing in Chicago was not working and it will definitely not work against Pittsburgh.

Which makes zero sense when you listen to Taylor talk about how they want to run the ball more with Mixon.

Running teams should be utilizing the PA at a high clip.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Which makes zero sense when you listen to Taylor talk about how they want to run the ball more with Mixon.

Running teams should be utilizing the PA at a high clip.

Burrow is used to sitting 5 yards deep surveying the defense, determining where the coverage is, how guys are moving and adjusting immediately after the snap and then hitting the guy that has least coverage or the hot read. When you do play action, you need to be under center so much more.
1. The QB has to turn his back on the defense and drop back, that takes time and takes his eyes off the hot blitzers and the coverage changes.
2. It makes the offensive line have to sustain blocks much longer to allow a play to develop.

The benefits for being under center allow for a better play action maybe holding defenses an extra tick before shifting out into coverage. I think we run the ball just fine out of shotgun and it gives Burrow more depth at the line and better vision of the field and the defense. Start running shotgun about 80% of the time, hand off 45% of the time still or use swing passes and screens as your runs if the defense dictates it.

I don't think Burrow is nearly as comfortable in this style offense as he is in a spread offense. But i know Taylor is scared to have Burrow drop pack as much as he did last year with the injury he sustained. But if he is worried about it, and wants a guy under center and to run the ball more, Allen may have to be that guy until Taylor is done being afraid.

 

[cincygrad]

Burrow is used to sitting 5 yards deep surveying the defense, determining where the coverage is, how guys are moving and adjusting immediately after the snap and then hitting the guy that has least coverage or the hot read. When you do play action, you need to be under center so much more.
1. The QB has to turn his back on the defense and drop back, that takes time and takes his eyes off the hot blitzers and the coverage changes.
2. It makes the offensive line have to sustain blocks much longer to allow a play to develop.

The benefits for being under center allow for a better play action maybe holding defenses an extra tick before shifting out into coverage. I think we run the ball just fine out of shotgun and it gives Burrow more depth at the line and better vision of the field and the defense. Start running shotgun about 80% of the time, hand off 45% of the time still or use swing passes and screens as your runs if the defense dictates it.

I don't think Burrow is nearly as comfortable in this style offense as he is in a spread offense. But i know Taylor is scared to have Burrow drop pack as much as he did last year with the injury he sustained. But if he is worried about it, and wants a guy under center and to run the ball more, Allen may have to be that guy until Taylor is done being afraid.

In the first game against Minny, he spent more time under center than he ever has in the past. Some of it seemed to conservative. Regardless, the mixing and matching seemed to do better than the same formation every damn time. I just think Taylor needs to be more variable against good defense.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Burrow is used to sitting 5 yards deep surveying the defense, determining where the coverage is, how guys are moving and adjusting immediately after the snap and then hitting the guy that has least coverage or the hot read. When you do play action, you need to be under center so much more.
1. The QB has to turn his back on the defense and drop back, that takes time and takes his eyes off the hot blitzers and the coverage changes.
2. It makes the offensive line have to sustain blocks much longer to allow a play to develop.

The benefits for being under center allow for a better play action maybe holding defenses an extra tick before shifting out into coverage. I think we run the ball just fine out of shotgun and it gives Burrow more depth at the line and better vision of the field and the defense. Start running shotgun about 80% of the time, hand off 45% of the time still or use swing passes and screens as your runs if the defense dictates it.

I don't think Burrow is nearly as comfortable in this style offense as he is in a spread offense. But i know Taylor is scared to have Burrow drop pack as much as he did last year with the injury he sustained. But if he is worried about it, and wants a guy under center and to run the ball more, Allen may have to be that guy until Taylor is done being afraid.

I'm going to disagree.

You can still PA when in shotgun. I'd wager that 80% of the snaps that are runs come from the shotgun formation. The key is: You have to be a willing running team, which the Bengals say they are. Then, have to have some of the plays look like a run, but end up being a pass.

It's not rocket science. It's the execution that makes it work - not the alignment.

Boomer was great at it, not because he was under center, but because he had the best ball fake/handoff that nearly anyone has ever had in NFL history. Execution.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'm going to disagree.

You can still PA when in shotgun. I'd wager that 80% of the snaps that are runs come from the shotgun formation. The key is: You have to be a willing running team, which the Bengals say they are. Then, have to have some of the plays look like a run, but end up being a pass.

It's not rocket science. It's the execution that makes it work - not the alignment.

Boomer was great at it, not because he was under center, but because he had the best ball fake/handoff that nearly anyone has ever had in NFL history. Execution.

I didn't say you couldn't play action from shotgun. I am just saying most play actions are most effective when the QB is under center, because he turns his back to the defense and is able to hide the ball better behind his body. Under center is not required, but it is less effective in shotgun because the RB is usually lining up beside the QB instead of behind him.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I didn't say you couldn't play action from shotgun. I am just saying most play actions are most effective when the QB is under center, because he turns his back to the defense and is able to hide the ball better behind his body. Under center is not required, but it is less effective in shotgun because the RB is usually lining up beside the QB instead of behind him.

I see what you're getting at. Ok. I can see that point. I still think, execution-wise, you can be nearly as effective...but you have to really work on the fake.

The plus side is - the head is never turned to the defense, so it should help at least avoid a few "immediate" sacks if someone breaks through, as opposed to a throwaway.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I see what you're getting at. Ok. I can see that point. I still think, execution-wise, you can be nearly as effective...but you have to really work on the fake.

The plus side is - the head is never turned to the defense, so it should help at least avoid a few "immediate" sacks if someone breaks through, as opposed to a throwaway.

I agree with that. Plus, as you said, shotgun formation allows Joe to see, holy shit, this guy is unblocked, I need to move or get rid of the ball now. At least throw near the feet of his RB somewhere. Joe just excels when he sees how the defense is moving once the snap occurs. He is smart enough to know where the mismatch is. But when he turns his back and has to do a play action from under center, he loses focus on the defense and how his WR's routes are progressing. Plus, he may have missed his perfect throwing window in that secondary as he is trying to get back.

I am not saying it can't be run once in a while but it should be limited. At least with straight passing drop backs from under center he is looking up and out at the defense, his head is not turned. Even though there is a lot of motion in that progression of the throw, he is looking at the defense. What sucks is when he is in the middle of a deep drop back, there is an all out blitz and he is having to throw off his back foot to get rid of the ball. From shotgun, the ball is back quickly and he can immediately step forward and throw with authority if need be.

I don't know. If we didn't have a spread offense QB, and we were more of an under center type QB like Dalton where you need to totally keep the defense honest to opening throwing lanes for him, I wouldn't be opposed to the style offense they are trying to run right now. I think you keep the defense on their heels at all times. Spread formation, shotgun, no huddle (not hurry up offense), keep the RB in to help block, run or slide out for a screen at all times. He is your QB's safety blanket. In this style offense a great pass blocking RB, with great hands and some quicks for draws, is t he ideal back...al la Gio. Which is why Evans is ideal for this style offense if he can be a really good pass blocker. Mixon is just not the ideal back for our offense. I would definitely let Mixon walk at the end of his contract to free up that cash and focus more on keeping the oline beefed up so you can run that spread with less blockers.