Dak wants big contract

[PhoenixEagles1]

This has been an interesting post....Dak will get his contract probably between $27-30 million and he deserves this contract...draft experts agree you should wait 3 years before grading a player drafted, if we look from that point of view Dak is indeed better then Wentz, his 3 year body of work surpasses Wentz, now does this mean he is more talented, no....Wentz has better measurables then Dak, but needs to stay healthy and prove this on the field, and be a leader for his team, which so far he hasn't. Dallas is in better position as they know what they are getting with Dak, a QB who could end up being in the 8-12 range in NFL, but Philly doesn't know what they have yet, and may invest upward of $35 million in a QB that can't stay healthy.

We know we have a star when he’s healthy.

 

[Tapey]

We know we have a star when he’s healthy.

Yea, he just needs to stay healthy. Then hes golden

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Yea, he just needs to stay healthy. Then hes golden

Pretty much

 

[dbldwn711]

So the team is letting him sit out even though they know he’s faking. You’re a clown dude. Fake injury, fake MRI, fake injury in the offseason, fake rehab. Sounds reasonable DblDown

They’re called VOLUNTARY workouts dipshit. The team isn’t “letting him” do anything. Most veterans look an excuse not to participate. Your phenomen came up with his own

 

[dbldwn711]

Pretty much

You’re a clown

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

They’re called VOLUNTARY workouts dipshit. The team isn’t “letting him” do anything. Most veterans look an excuse not to participate. Your phenomen came up with his own

But it’s all one big fake injury orchestrated by the Eagles and Wentz right. Suuuuuuuure I’m the clown.

 

[dbldwn711]

But it’s all one big fake injury orchestrated by the Eagles and Wentz right. Suuuuuuuure I’m the clown.

He’s ok to play until he loses to Dallas ... again which all but eliminates them from the playoffs. They need to win out AND get help. They can’t point to a hit he takes in his last game. They say he’s done for the season BUT he’s not on IR.

Yup... I’m just making shit up as I go along.

 

[handicappers]

Well double douche is not someone in high regard. Do like I did and put that clown on ignore.

 

[Across The Field]

This has been an interesting post....Dak will get his contract probably between $27-30 million and he deserves this contract...draft experts agree you should wait 3 years before grading a player drafted, if we look from that point of view Dak is indeed better then Wentz, his 3 year body of work surpasses Wentz, now does this mean he is more talented, no....Wentz has better measurables then Dak, but needs to stay healthy and prove this on the field, and be a leader for his team, which so far he hasn't. Dallas is in better position as they know what they are getting with Dak, a QB who could end up being in the 8-12 range in NFL, but Philly doesn't know what they have yet, and may invest upward of $35 million in a QB that can't stay healthy.

The only issue I have with this is that Dak has regressed statistically while Wentz has progressed. If you took Dak's 3 year body of work and flipped it, I'd agree and look at 2019 as a year he could make the leap into the top 5-7 QBs in the league. While his 2018 wasn't horrible, it lagged well behind his rookie year from a qualitative metric standpoint: His YPA is down over half a yard, and his TD% and QBR are well behind 2016. He also took over twice as many sacks in 2018 vs. 2016. I know the OL isn't as good as it was in 2016, but they were far from being a horrible OL that other QBs have to deal with.

2019 is going to be a huge season for both QBs for different reasons: We know if Wentz is healthy, he will put up big numbers. His last 2 years have been better than Dak's in nearly every qualitative metric, but if he's going to be missing 4-5 games every year, it's hard to give him big money. On the flipside, Dak has to show he can get back to his rookie year qualitative metrics to ensure he actually is a top end QB and that 2016 wasn't more of an aberration.

 

[jarntt]

I thought @jarntt was saying he not sure if he will be ready for the season. You article says he should be good to go in May more then 4 months before the season starts.

Yes, that is what I heard the other day. Not that he WON'T be ready, but not 100% sure he will be healthy enough that playing him instead of resting a little more (like last year) will be best. I could be wrong and it could have been referring to preseason or camp or something

 

[jarntt]

The only issue I have with this is that Dak has regressed statistically while Wentz has progressed. If you took Dak's 3 year body of work and flipped it, I'd agree and look at 2019 as a year he could make the leap into the top 5-7 QBs in the league. While his 2018 wasn't horrible, it lagged well behind his rookie year from a qualitative metric standpoint: His YPA is down over half a yard, and his TD% and QBR are well behind 2016. He also took over twice as many sacks in 2018 vs. 2016. I know the OL isn't as good as it was in 2016, but they were far from being a horrible OL that other QBs have to deal with.

Dak's best full season was year 1. Wentz's best full season was year 2. Neither was year 3. So Dak regressed but Wentz is getting better?

Dak's best play was the last 9 games of year 3. So again, not sure I agree with the regression. More sacks because the line sucked. No other reason. He does hold the ball a little too long and needs to things before they open instead of as they open, but that has been the same and absolutely not why he took more sacks. Lastly remember a TD is a TD and run all your stats for his last 9 games (most of a season) and let me know if you think he regressed or showed improvement.

 

[Across The Field]

Dak's best full season was year 1. Wentz's best full season was year 2. Neither was year 3. So Dak regressed but Wentz is getting better?

Dak's best play was the last 9 games of year 3. So again, not sure I agree with the regression. More sacks because the line sucked. No other reason. He does hold the ball a little too long and needs to things before they open instead of as they open, but that has been the same and absolutely not why he took more sacks. Lastly remember a TD is a TD and run all your stats for his last 9 games (most of a season) and let me know if you think he regressed or showed improvement.

Wentz only went backwards from year 2 to 3 in QBR and TD%. His comp% went up almost 10%, his rating went up, and his YPA even improved. My point was, compared to year 1, he showed dramatic improvement in both year 2 and 3, while Dak is the exact opposite.

Yes, we've been over Dak's final 9 games of the regular season, where he faced 6 pass defenses that ranked near the bottom of the NFL. I love how you show your real bias by saying the OL is the only reason he took over twice as many sacks when they were still an above average OL. No homerism there...

He improved over the 2nd half of 2018 as compared to the 1st half, I've never said anything to the contrary. He still had 1 or 0 TD passes in over half of those games, and while I understand he is a running threat, those QBs don't get the elite high dollar contracts unless they are also able to show that they can produce high end stats passing, a la Russell Wilson. That's why I'm saying 2019 is so important for him. He has to show improvement in his contract year. While he was top 10 among NFL QBs in INTs and comp%, he was still average or below average (I didn't say mediocre, I know that upsets you so much) in yards, TDs, QBR, YPA, TD%, and he took the 2nd most sacks, more than other QBs who have far worse OL than Dallas such as Kirk Cousins, Phillip Rivers, Derek Carr, Cam Newton, Sam Darnold, Eli Manning, and several others.

 

[jarntt]

rinse repeat. Actually watch the games and then give me your opinion. I love people who read a box score and then pretend to have a clue.

The OL was so much worse last year than 2016 and that is 100% why he took twice as many sacks. The fact that you use some statistic that someone else who watches the games as your "proof" shows you have no clue. PFF is the worst for things like this. There is a correlation to reality, but it just isn't. Dak needs to get rid of the ball a little quicker but that was no different in 2016. The difference is the line was way, way, way worse in pass protection and would have been even poorer if not for Dak's ability to escape and his strength to get the ball away.

 

[fordman84]

Dak's best full season was year 1. Wentz's best full season was year 2. Neither was year 3. So Dak regressed but Wentz is getting better?

Dak's best play was the last 9 games of year 3. So again, not sure I agree with the regression. More sacks because the line sucked. No other reason. He does hold the ball a little too long and needs to things before they open instead of as they open, but that has been the same and absolutely not why he took more sacks. Lastly remember a TD is a TD and run all your stats for his last 9 games (most of a season) and let me know if you think he regressed or showed improvement.

Dak's best games were when he had an actual #1 WR. Dak isn't the best QB and he pisses me off. But we have to lock him up for the next 5 years or else we will get back into the game of trying to find a QB that does A) suck and B) is a brittle bitch.

 

[fordman84]

rinse repeat. Actually watch the games and then give me your opinion. I love people who read a box score and then pretend to have a clue.

The OL was so much worse last year than 2016 and that is 100% why he took twice as many sacks. The fact that you use some statistic that someone else who watches the games as your "proof" shows you have no clue. PFF is the worst for things like this. There is a correlation to reality, but it just isn't. Dak needs to get rid of the ball a little quicker but that was no different in 2016. The difference is the line was way, way, way worse in pass protection and would have been even poorer if not for Dak's ability to escape and his strength to get the ball away.

Bingo

 

[Teddyg]

The only issue I have with this is that Dak has regressed statistically while Wentz has progressed. If you took Dak's 3 year body of work and flipped it, I'd agree and look at 2019 as a year he could make the leap into the top 5-7 QBs in the league. While his 2018 wasn't horrible, it lagged well behind his rookie year from a qualitative metric standpoint: His YPA is down over half a yard, and his TD% and QBR are well behind 2016. He also took over twice as many sacks in 2018 vs. 2016. I know the OL isn't as good as it was in 2016, but they were far from being a horrible OL that other QBs have to deal with.

2019 is going to be a huge season for both QBs for different reasons: We know if Wentz is healthy, he will put up big numbers. His last 2 years have been better than Dak's in nearly every qualitative metric, but if he's going to be missing 4-5 games every year, it's hard to give him big money. On the flipside, Dak has to show he can get back to his rookie year qualitative metrics to ensure he actually is a top end QB and that 2016 wasn't more of an aberration.

No I don't think this is accurate, let me explain: For Wentz, 2016 was average at best their FO realized this and bought in weapons around him, upgraded the RB spot with Blount, got a true #1 receiver in Jefferies along with Smith and he improved greatly in 2017 so much so that when he got injured Foles was able to succeed in his absence with the weapons they had aquired. A QB needs weapons around him to succeed.

For Dak, we all know 2016, but thru 8 games in 2017 he was playing very well until we lost Zeke to suspension and Tyron Smith to injury, and Dez wasn't the receiver he once was, Dallas had no back up plan for this and he struggled last 8 games. Going into 2018 Dallas tried to upgrade the receiver position by going after Sammi Watkins but missed (thank God) so they went into season with bunch of #2/3 WR and 1st half he did struggle as receivers couldn't get open and no deep threat so teams would sit on the short routes and stack box against Zeke. Enter Cooper and the offense improved greatly as now they had a threat at WR.

QBs can't do this alone, they need weapons around them look no further then eagles of early 2000....they had McNabb but no real weapons and couldn't get over hump until they got TO....or Elway no matter how great he was until they got TD they couldn't either....

 

[Across The Field]

rinse repeat. Actually watch the games and then give me your opinion. I love people who read a box score and then pretend to have a clue.

The OL was so much worse last year than 2016 and that is 100% why he took twice as many sacks. The fact that you use some statistic that someone else who watches the games as your "proof" shows you have no clue. PFF is the worst for things like this. There is a correlation to reality, but it just isn't. Dak needs to get rid of the ball a little quicker but that was no different in 2016. The difference is the line was way, way, way worse in pass protection and would have been even poorer if not for Dak's ability to escape and his strength to get the ball away.

From a strictly pass-blocking efficiency metric, Dallas was 22nd in the NFL. That's not good, understandable. It's also not close to the worst. In fact, the difference between the #22 pass pro efficiency score (Dallas) and #12 was 1.7 points. Meanwhile, the difference from #22 to #26 was almost 3 points. So there's a massive gap between Dallas and the bottom end of the league. Yet he still took the 2nd most sacks in the NFL. That's my point. You understate his inability to know when to get rid of the ball and avoid a sack. It isn't like all 56 sacks were guys getting to him within 2 seconds of the snap. He has to improve in this area.

You might be right about this not being different from 2016, but that 2016 Dallas OL was in the conversation among the best OLs ever put together. If that's what Dak needs to put together top 10 quality metrics, then you simply don't have a top 10 QB.

 

[Across The Field]

No I don't think this is accurate, let me explain: For Wentz, 2016 was average at best their FO realized this and bought in weapons around him, upgraded the RB spot with Blount, got a true #1 receiver in Jefferies along with Smith and he improved greatly in 2017 so much so that when he got injured Foles was able to succeed in his absence with the weapons they had aquired. A QB needs weapons around him to succeed.

For Dak, we all know 2016, but thru 8 games in 2017 he was playing very well until we lost Zeke to suspension and Tyron Smith to injury, and Dez wasn't the receiver he once was, Dallas had no back up plan for this and he struggled last 8 games. Going into 2018 Dallas tried to upgrade the receiver position by going after Sammi Watkins but missed (thank God) so they went into season with bunch of #2/3 WR and 1st half he did struggle as receivers couldn't get open and no deep threat so teams would sit on the short routes and stack box against Zeke. Enter Cooper and the offense improved greatly as now they had a threat at WR.

QBs can't do this alone, they need weapons around them look no further then eagles of early 2000....they had McNabb but no real weapons and couldn't get over hump until they got TO....or Elway no matter how great he was until they got TD they couldn't either....

I don't know that I would call Blount that big of an upgrade. He's a short yardage plodder who can pick up tough yards, but there's a reason he's never been a true bellcow. He only had 2 TDs for them in 2017. He's a one-trick pony like Brandon Jacobs. Also, Jeffrey and Smith weren't good in 2017. Ertz was the real weapon. Jeffrey caught less than half of his targets, and Jeffrey and Smith combined to catch 93 balls for 1219 yards. Jeffrey had good TD production at 9, but Smith was irrelevant in this metric.

You sort of illustrated my point with your second paragraph. Dak was a product of Zeke, and always has been IMO. He's a decent QB, but he's not elite, which is why I think it's foolish to pay him like he is. We've seen this sort of thing backfire for teams in the past. I've said in either this thread or another that I would like to see Dallas be competing for Super Bowls. The NFL is more exciting when the blue bloods are good. Objectively, though, Dak just isn't an elite QB who is going to be able to carry his team to a Super Bowl.

 

[PhillyGreen]

I think Dak is closer to top 10 than he is the bottom 10. Chris Canty explained it best when he said that Dak is not the type of QB that can elevate the play of those around him. In all fairness that is an elite QB and he is not there. At the same time neither is Wentz or Goff but they have shown measurable that lead many to believe they can get there. Carson Wentz not even remotely close to being healthy actually played well and his numbers show it. He still came back too soon.

I think people here are stuck on whether Dak is elite or not. Well he is not elite. He is a good young QB with plenty of upside. Only morons like Skip Bayless believes Dak is better than and deserves Russell Wilson money.

Here is the thing....The Cowboys are going to have to overpay to keep Dak. That is a given because if they do not they are fucked at the QB position. Stephen Jones can talk team friendly deal all he want but the reality is they are still going to have to pay him.

Dak's value is the $23-$25 mil range but he will more than likely be paid $25-$28 mil.

 

[Across The Field]

I think Dak is closer to top 10 than he is the bottom 10. Chris Canty explained it best when he said that Dak is not the type of QB that can elevate the play of those around him. In all fairness that is an elite QB and he is not there. At the same time neither is Wentz or Goff but they have shown measurable that lead many to believe they can get there. Carson Wentz not even remotely close to being healthy actually played well and his numbers show it. He still came back too soon.

I think people here are stuck on whether Dak is elite or not. Well he is not elite. He is a good young QB with plenty of upside. Only morons like Skip Bayless believes Dak is better than and deserves Russell Wilson money.

Here is the thing....The Cowboys are going to have to overpay to keep Dak. That is a given because if they do not they are fucked at the QB position. Stephen Jones can talk team friendly deal all he want but the reality is they are still going to have to pay him.

Dak's value is the $23-$25 mil range but he will more than likely be paid $25-$28 mil.

It's not a question of if he's elite, but rather should be get paid like he's elite. I think $23m is very fair, as that would put him on the cusp of the top 10, which is optimistically where he's at right now.

That said, they'll have Zeke next year, they'll have Amari next year, and my guess is they address WR/TE heavily in the draft, even with Witten back. I think they'd do well to try and move into the 1st round and grab Noah Fant in the back third of the round, as he could be a perfect fit for Dak and the offense. If they have a decent supporting cast for him and he's still throwing 22-23 TD passes and sitting around the middle of the pack in other metrics, how can you justify paying him upwards of $28m?