Current roster

[Cincyfan78]

As far as Palmer goes, I'd take what the comments of Whit and others with a grain of salt. Yes some comments have hinted negativity towards Palmer, and i believe it was Benson who said if he doesn't want to be here, they don't want him. But I ask you this....what the hell are they supposed to say or do? Beg Carson to come back? Tell Dalton to go pound sand? Call out ownership and risk getting blacklisted by MB? You have to work with what you have and support the guys who are here at the moment.

I don't buy any sort of locker room rift if Palmer returns. Sure, he may not be the most popular guy, but i expect most of the vets except maybe Benson would welcome him back.

The sad thing is...it ultimately doesn't matter what guys in the locker room think or say. MB is the ultimate authority, and the track record proves that team chemistry, locker room harmony, and winning football games are not the priority around here. If Palmer comes back, he will likely be the starter. And the vets will have no choice but to suck it up and support their QB.

Bingo. I don't know if Brown/Lewis/Gruden would make Palmer the starter...I think Brown would love nothing more than to force Palmer to return, and then Palmer sit the pine.

I agree that whether guys want him back or not, if Palmer returns, and if he plays, they would do their best to win games. It's a business, and you're not always going to like the guys you work for, work with, work against...but you make it work because you have to. Kind like the team putting up with Ocho for the past few seasons.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Bingo. I don't know if Brown/Lewis/Gruden would make Palmer the starter...I think Brown would love nothing more than to force Palmer to return, and then Palmer sit the pine.

I agree that whether guys want him back or not, if Palmer returns, and if he plays, they would do their best to win games. It's a business, and you're not always going to like the guys you work for, work with, work against...but you make it work because you have to. Kind like the team putting up with Ocho for the past few seasons.

Exactly. They're football players. Their job is to play football and win games. They'll put up with Palmer for the sake of the team. Andrew Whitworth isn't being paid for his philosophies on leadership, he's being paid to protect his QB, whether it be Palmer or Dalton.

 

[vancelot23]

I'm not sure I buy Palmer suddenly making this a playoff team. Yeah, the schedule is weaker, but Carson and the Bengals have a habit of getting up for big games and not looking prepared at all for weaker teams. Marvin Lewis is a terrible coach.

 

[flamingrey]

I, personally, think that many other guys feel this way but because of the uncertain status of his contract/retirement...

That's quite a step back from your "Besides, if you look at what a lot of players have been saying, they don't want Palmer back."

Maybe not trying to portray your opinions as fact when they aren't...

But you know, if you've ever played sports, and had a guy basically quit on you...you don't want that guy back. Period.

It's a business, and you're not always going to like the guys you work for, work with, work against...but you make it work because you have to. Kind like the team putting up with Ocho for the past few seasons.

He didn't quit on the players, he quit on the organization. Players hold out all the time. Jackson and Mankins did it last season and you didn't hear of rifts when they came back 10 weeks into the season. Umenyiora did it this season, demanding a trade, yet there's nothing coming out of that locker room. As you even conceded, players know this is a business. They don't let business get personal. In fact, anything you ever hear from players and analysts alike about Palmer is that he's a great person. They would take him back with open arms. They know he's the best chance the team has of winning.

Bingo. I don't know if Brown/Lewis/Gruden would make Palmer the starter...I think Brown would love nothing more than to force Palmer to return, and then Palmer sit the pine.

Brown would never sit Palmer. It's been reported (by ESPN as well) that Brown has attempted to contact Palmer to convince him to come back. He would never pay Palmer $11.5 million to sit the bench. If he was going to try to "stick it" to him, he'd force him to play for the Bengals, the team he wants no part of anymore.

Other sources have reported that Brown will make him the starter, but Lewis and Gruden want Palmer to earn the spot back.

 

[flamingrey]

I'm not sure I buy Palmer suddenly making this a playoff team. Yeah, the schedule is weaker, but Carson and the Bengals have a habit of getting up for big games and not looking prepared at all for weaker teams. Marvin Lewis is a terrible coach.

2009: they made the playoffs. Weak schedule, good D. Palmer did just enough to get them in.

2010: much harder schedule. Went 4-12, and in about 7-8 other games, they lost by 6 or less.

2011: with a weak schedule, good D, and non-bratkowski offense, I don't see why this team wouldn't be contending for the playoffs.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I'm not sure I buy Palmer suddenly making this a playoff team. Yeah, the schedule is weaker, but Carson and the Bengals have a habit of getting up for big games and not looking prepared at all for weaker teams. Marvin Lewis is a terrible coach.

Especially with a new offense and missing all of preseason and training camp. Palmer isn't Brady or Manning. We won 4 games with Palmer starting last year. Is he better than Dalton at this point? Probably. We might win 1-2 more games than we could with Dalton. And yes as long as Marvin is the coach, expect to steal a game against the Ravens, and lose to the Raiders.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Other sources have reported that Brown will make him the starter, but Lewis and Gruden want Palmer to earn the spot back.

I would expect as much.

Palmer hasn't even thought about the current offensive system one iota, he hasn't taken one snap in it. He would just go out there, throw the ball to the other team and blame it on the current wide receivers not running their routes, and then he'd blame it on the bad food at PBS, and then he'd blame Gruden for changing the offense, and then he'd blame Marvin, and then he'd blame the fans...

Might as well see if Dalton can learn and improve.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Flaming, I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you. You called me a liar for saying what I did about players saying he wasn't a leader and not wanting him back. I posted quotes. You can't deny that. How you (or I) interpret those is another debate, but the fact of the matter is...those words were said about Palmers lack of leadership and player(s) not wanting him back. Those are facts that can't be denied. I supplied them.

I also added my own thoughts as well. Those are opinions separate from what I stated as fact.

Hold outs are nothing like what Palmer is doing. Hold outs are driven by money. Every player that plays undertands that when a player holds out, it's not personal, it's business. Chris Johnson, Osi, etc...etc....Palmer is not holding out for money. He is basically saying "I can't win here" which tells the players on this team "I can't win with you"...he quit the organization AND the team/players. You simply can't compare this to a hold-out which is money driven and every player understands. They only have a few years to get as much as they can. Palmer doesn't want more money...he wants to win...and by not coming back and saying he can't win here...he basically just pissed on everyone that he left behind.

As for when/if he comes back...I guess we'll see...but until he does............

 

[Cincyfan78]

I would expect as much.

Palmer hasn't even thought about the current offensive system one iota, he hasn't taken one snap in it. He would just go out there, throw the ball to the other team and blame it on the current wide receivers not running their routes, and then he'd blame it on the bad food at PBS, and then he'd blame Gruden for changing the offense, and then he'd blame Marvin, and then he'd blame the fans...

Might as well see if Dalton can learn and improve.

Not sure if Palmer would do THAT, as it would hurt his long-term value...and he knows that Brown isn't going to trade him unless he gets what he deems as "value" in return.

A "normal" team wouldn't start him. No way...then again, the owner of this team has never done anything that makes any sense. It wouldn't surprise me one way or the other, I wouldn't think that Palmer would start, but then again...I'm being rational.

 

[flamingrey]

Flaming, I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you. You called me a liar for saying what I did about players saying he wasn't a leader and not wanting him back. I posted quotes. You can't deny that. How you (or I) interpret those is another debate, but the fact of the matter is...those words were said about Palmers lack of leadership and player(s) not wanting him back. Those are facts that can't be denied. I supplied them.

I also added my own thoughts as well. Those are opinions separate from what I stated as fact.

No, you stated your opinions and tried to portray them as fact. The only player that said anything close to what you were suggesting was Pacman. The rest? You put words into their mouths and still continue to suggest your interpretation is the truth and "fact" which is...well a lie. And what a person says is not necessarily the same as they feel.

As for your holdout comments...disagree...it has everything to do with the business model and nothing to do with the players...we'll leave it at that.

 

[flamingrey]

I would expect as much.

Palmer hasn't even thought about the current offensive system one iota, he hasn't taken one snap in it. He would just go out there, throw the ball to the other team and blame it on the current wide receivers not running their routes, and then he'd blame it on the bad food at PBS, and then he'd blame Gruden for changing the offense, and then he'd blame Marvin, and then he'd blame the fans...

Might as well see if Dalton can learn and improve.

It seems to have become a habit of people on this board to make stuff up.

He's never done that stuff in the past, why would he now?

Good riddance, people.

 

[flamingrey]

Especially with a new offense and missing all of preseason and training camp. Palmer isn't Brady or Manning. We won 4 games with Palmer starting last year. Is he better than Dalton at this point? Probably. We might win 1-2 more games than we could with Dalton. And yes as long as Marvin is the coach, expect to steal a game against the Ravens, and lose to the Raiders.

I understand that point as well, but one thing working in our favor is the relatively easy schedule early on. The defense just has to keep things close and anything can happen. Let's also keep in mind, if Palmer is planning on coming back, then he's known for a long time that he'd come back. It's not something that's going to just spring on him to come back. Given that, there is no reason to expect Palmer doesn't have the playbook down (his brother has a copy, so you can bet he does too). Because he doesn't have timing down with his receivers, there will be rough patches, but it won't keep them from putting points on the board against easy opponents.

 

[RnO]

From a Ravens fan perspective I really don't think you'd want Palmer back. I was at the game last year and IMO he cost you guys that game with some of his play.

I think Cincy probably finishes about 5-11 and probably looks better toward the end of the season as the young team gets more experience. The key will be protecting Dalton and not expecting him to light the world on fire

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I understand that point as well, but one thing working in our favor is the relatively easy schedule early on. The defense just has to keep things close and anything can happen. Let's also keep in mind, if Palmer is planning on coming back, then he's known for a long time that he'd come back. It's not something that's going to just spring on him to come back. Given that, there is no reason to expect Palmer doesn't have the playbook down (his brother has a copy, so you can bet he does too). Because he doesn't have timing down with his receivers, there will be rough patches, but it won't keep them from putting points on the board against easy opponents.

I'm in agreement about the schedule. I think we beat the Alex Smith 49ers regardless who plays QB. I also fully expect us to be competitive more often than not, outside the division. But I just don't think playoffs are realistic with this roster. I hate the term "rebuilding", but with the youth movement on offense, that's where we are at right now. Palmer would provide a veteran presence which should help in some of those tight games. That's why I think if Palmer plays, that buys us an extra win, maybe two. I don't doubt Palmer has a playbook or has studied up in the event he comes back. But a WC style offense is much more timing based than the previous Predictikowski scheme. The lack of reps for Palmer and the receivers will be tough to mask. Especially when our only real playmaker is Green, a rookie.

 

[flamingrey]

Meh. I believe the offense will be much better than it has been in years, regardless of the rebuilding/youth movement or whatever. Personally, I believe that to be a moot point.

WC style offense is more timing based when you're running quick 3 step drops with quick slants or out-routes. That really hasn't been the case from the limited action I've seen. And which also makes sense. I don't think Gruden would have wanted to burden Dalton with being perfect on timing in addition to everything else he's going to have to deal with as a rookie. I believe the same will be the case with Palmer. That said, as the season progresses, whomever is the QB, I do expect more timing-based routes to be implemented.

Looking at the first 5 games: Strictly based on the strength of our opponents, I see no reason our defense alone wouldn't keep us in the games against Cleveland, Denver, 49ers, Buffalo, and Jacksonville. Our offense would just have to be serviceable against those teams, none of which are very good defensively. That buys Carson 5 games to build some chemistry with his receivers. Week 6 is Indianapolis, and then Week 7 is the bye. The schedule was built perfectly this season for the fiasco that is always the Bengals.

 

[bengaldoug]

We'll know much more after this week......if we're going to lose them all, or nearly all of them, Cleveland will 'splain it to us on the field.......if we get really blown out up there, I may buy in to Kramer's gloom and doom winless scenario.....however if we go up there and play a close game with the Browns, win or lose, there's every reason to believe the rest of the schedule is weak enough that we'll be able to pull a few wins out.....now concerning Palmer, I really regret having gotten involved in prior discussions about his possible return......I don't think there's really any chance of that, now......

 

[vancelot23]

We play a lot of weak teams, but those are the ones we play down to, even if we are playing well.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

We play a lot of weak teams, but those are the ones we play down to, even if we are playing well.

This is my feeling as well. Easy opponents haven't always translated to W's with this team.

 

[vancelot23]

That said, we might be 2-10, then with the last 4 in a row.

 

[flamingrey]

This is my feeling as well. Easy opponents haven't always translated to W's with this team.

You guys are missing the point.

In 2009, while we played down to our opponents, we still won those games and made the playoffs. 2010, we had a much tougher schedule, and struggled finishing out those tougher opponents, resulting in most losses by 6 points or less and winning only 4 games. This season again we have an easy schedule. Nobody is saying we aren't going to play down to our opponents. Because we are, that's what we do. However, we shouldn't have trouble closing them out ala 2009, hence giving us a shot at the playoffs - despite playing down to the opponents through the course of the year.