Current, former players shocked Lamar is not getting more interest

[Iggloo]

So the Ravens tagged Lamar Jackson but with a tag that allows him to be signed for two first rounders. And...a bunch of teams including the Commanders and Panthers immediately came out and said, "meh, not interested."

This shocked current and former players from JJ Watt to RG3 to Jaquan Brisker (who made a not so subtle allusion to Daniel Jones "being trash" but getting a big deal while Lamar gets dissed.

My take is that Lamar, while extremely talented, has been injured the past two years, and apparently acted like quite a diva last season in Baltimore, basically quitting on his team. His throwing ability will also always be controversial, though I think he has shown it's plenty good enough to win a lot of games. In other words, I am not surprised that many teams don't want to sign him to a blockbuster deal--and he reportedly wants a guaranteed contract.

But to players it smells like collusion and payback for franchises standing by the Ravens, given that this is a league where guys like Derek Carr and Baker Mayfield get big contracts and are coveted by franchises.

What do people think? Is Lamar just overrated, or are NFL teams colluding to make a statement about franchise players being stuck with their franchises no matter what they think?

The Lamar Jackson unprovable collusion has started quickly

The NFL and its teams collude.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[fightinfunbags]

What the players haven’t considered:
1. The new team is going to be paying a huge contract and cap number.
2. They’re giving up 2 first round picks for the right to do that.
3. In the end, they may just be doing the work for the Ravens in negotiating a contract for Jackson back to the Ravens.

It’s not as simple as saying I like this guy so I’ll sign him. As per usual, the system is created to fuck over the player and that’s exactly what has happened.

 

[jarntt]

So the Ravens tagged Lamar Jackson but with a tag that allows him to be signed for two first rounders. And...a bunch of teams including the Commanders and Panthers immediately came out and said, "meh, not interested."

This shocked current and former players from JJ Watt to RG3 to Jaquan Brisker (who made a not so subtle allusion to Daniel Jones "being trash" but getting a big deal while Lamar gets dissed.

My take is that Lamar, while extremely talented, has been injured the past two years, and apparently acted like quite a diva last season in Baltimore, basically quitting on his team. His throwing ability will also always be controversial, though I think he has shown it's plenty good enough to win a lot of games. In other words, I am not surprised that many teams don't want to sign him to a blockbuster deal--and he reportedly wants a guaranteed contract.

But to players it smells like collusion and payback for franchises standing by the Ravens, given that this is a league where guys like Derek Carr and Baker Mayfield get big contracts and are coveted by franchises.

What do people think? Is Lamar just overrated, or are NFL teams colluding to make a statement about franchise players being stuck with their franchises no matter what they think?

The Lamar Jackson unprovable collusion has started quickly

The NFL and its teams collude.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

I always found it so asinine to think like these players are. Did Lamar look for the exact same offer as Daniel Jones and the team turned it down or are the rumors true and he wants a fully or near fully guaranteed deal and likely for more? The Devil is in the details. Just because one signed and one didn't doesn't mean much

 

[Iggloo]

I think if there is collusion, it is all about Lamar trying to set a new standard for star players by reportedly demanding a fully guaranteed contract. That must scare NFL owners.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I always found it so asinine to think like these players are. Did Lamar look for the exact same offer as Daniel Jones and the team turned it down or are the rumors true and he wants a fully or near fully guaranteed deal and likely for more? The Devil is in the details. Just because one signed and one didn't doesn't mean much

Lamar would be foolish to slot himself near Daniel Jones in a negotiation. His value is a whole tier and maybe more above Daniel Jones.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I think if there is collusion, it is all about Lamar trying to set a new standard for star players by reportedly demanding a fully guaranteed contract. That must scare NFL owners.

The new standard was already set when the Browns fully guaranteed a deal for a public embarrassment to be made the face of their franchise. You can’t put the horse back in the barn.

 

[Iggloo]

What the players haven’t considered:
1. The new team is going to be paying a huge contract and cap number.
2. They’re giving up 2 first round picks for the right to do that.
3. In the end, they may just be doing the work for the Ravens in negotiating a contract for Jackson back to the Ravens.

It’s not as simple as saying I like this guy so I’ll sign him. As per usual, the system is created to fuck over the player and that’s exactly what has happened.

I think the point about the Ravens being able to match any offer, and basically using this process to tell Lamar, this is your value, is probably right.

I don't think the picks or the huge contract are the issues though. Teams are signing guys like Derek Carr and Daniel Jones to large contracts. The issue is likely the guaranteed money.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I think the point about the Ravens being able to match any offer, and basically using this process to tell Lamar, this is your value, is probably right.

I don't think the picks or the huge contract are the issues though. Teams are signing guys like Derek Carr and Daniel Jones to large contracts. The issue is likely the guaranteed money.

I would argue Jackson is worth the money but he’s still unproven in the playoffs so when the price is the money, the cap commitment (the guarantee demand you cited), and two first round picks, that particular circumstance is a bridge too far.

 

[Clayton]

This does have everything to do with Lamar's style of play. If another Watson came on to the market then teams would go stupid with guaranteed money again. Lamar's injuries have hurt two straight SB contending teams.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Jackson is coming off 2 years of injuries. This year was a knee. For a "QB" that uses his legs far more than his arm to create his value - that is a major concern.

He hasn't shown a ton of improvement in his passing - and that is an issue because once a mobile QB isn't mobile - if he can't throw - he's not a QB.

Just because Cleveland went stupid and paid 100% of Watson's contract does not mean other teams have to follow suit with their contracts. They are well within their rights to decide that it is not worth their investment to offer such contracts. Especially since so much of that ends up having to be in escrow - teams may not feel like it is in their best interest to tie up that kind of money long-term with actual cash on hand (or in escrow), and for some teams it may be a near impossibility.

Even if you think that Watson sets a new standard for contracts- he and LJ are not the same QB. One has an actual arm that he knows (or knew) how to use. The other uses his legs to create his offensive openings in the passing game. One is sustainable over the next 8 years. The other, historically speaking, is likely to fall off much sooner than later, and injury is a far greater risk and requires more mitigation on the part of the team.

 

[PDay8810]

Leave it to the fans of the just completed SB teams to over think this.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Jackson is coming off 2 years of injuries. This year was a knee. For a "QB" that uses his legs far more than his arm to create his value - that is a major concern.

He hasn't shown a ton of improvement in his passing - and that is an issue because once a mobile QB isn't mobile - if he can't throw - he's not a QB.

Just because Cleveland went stupid and paid 100% of Watson's contract does not mean other teams have to follow suit with their contracts. They are well within their rights to decide that it is not worth their investment to offer such contracts. Especially since so much of that ends up having to be in escrow - teams may not feel like it is in their best interest to tie up that kind of money long-term with actual cash on hand (or in escrow), and for some teams it may be a near impossibility.

Even if you think that Watson sets a new standard for contracts- he and LJ are not the same QB. One has an actual arm that he knows (or knew) how to use. The other uses his legs to create his offensive openings in the passing game. One is sustainable over the next 8 years. The other, historically speaking, is likely to fall off much sooner than later, and injury is a far greater risk and requires more mitigation on the part of the team.

They aren’t the same guy. One has missed parts of two seasons due to injury. The other has missed two seasons because he’s an embarrassment and a shitty citizen.

If Lamar Jackson isn’t the future for the Ravens then just let the man walk. No harm no foul. But if he is their QB going forward than you commit to him. This hedging is just a loser. Utilizing the franchise tag rarely works in the end. For good reason, the players hate it. It can quickly sour a relationship. This relationship was already strained to begin with.

 

[Cincyfan78]

They aren’t the same guy. One has missed parts of two seasons due to injury. The other has missed two seasons because he’s an embarrassment and a shitty citizen.

If Lamar Jackson isn’t the future for the Ravens then just let the man walk. No harm no foul. But if he is their QB going forward than you commit to him. This hedging is just a loser. Utilizing the franchise tag rarely works in the end. For good reason, the players hate it. It can quickly sour a relationship. This relationship was already strained to begin with.

Your right - but one has a longer term potential at QB because he can actually throw the ball at the position, and the other - to date - has not shown that ability to rely on his arm without the threat of his feet. It's a massive difference when projecting how much, and how long, you are going to pay a guy. I don't disagree with your overall premise on how they are different, but I'm just focusing on the production on the field. Long term - Watson is a much safer bet at QB than Jackson.

No - you don't just let him walk. You do what they did. non-exclusive tag him, allow him to get a deal on the open market by an interested party that he thinks is fair. Bmore can decide to match, or decline and get compensation. It's a completely fair approach to this situation. LJ thinks he's worth more - and he has the ability to go out and negotiate that contract. Ravens get the ability to then decide if that contract is worth it to them, or if they feel they should collect the draft picks. It's basically a soft trade. Completely reasonable.

Your last statement is just patently false. Guys are tagged every year, and they end up playing - and things are just fine. Maybe the get to move on the year after that. Maybe they work out a long-term deal - but in the end, it rarely ever devolves into a bad situation. The one caveat is the one guy who really sat out the season in Bell. I'm not saying guys like it. Hell, teams don't like it as I'm sure they'd rather sign their guy, but in the end it rarely ever just goes south.

Even guys like Peyton Manning have been tagged (twice). I'm sure they somehow made due.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Your right - but one has a longer term potential at QB because he can actually throw the ball at the position, and the other - to date - has not shown that ability to rely on his arm without the threat of his feet. It's a massive difference when projecting how much, and how long, you are going to pay a guy. I don't disagree with your overall premise on how they are different, but I'm just focusing on the production on the field. Long term - Watson is a much safer bet at QB than Jackson.

No - you don't just let him walk. You do what they did. non-exclusive tag him, allow him to get a deal on the open market by an interested party that he thinks is fair. Bmore can decide to match, or decline and get compensation. It's a completely fair approach to this situation. LJ thinks he's worth more - and he has the ability to go out and negotiate that contract. Ravens get the ability to then decide if that contract is worth it to them, or if they feel they should collect the draft picks. It's basically a soft trade. Completely reasonable.

Your last statement is just patently false. Guys are tagged every year, and they end up playing - and things are just fine. Maybe the get to move on the year after that. Maybe they work out a long-term deal - but in the end, it rarely ever devolves into a bad situation. The one caveat is the one guy who really sat out the season in Bell. I'm not saying guys like it. Hell, teams don't like it as I'm sure they'd rather sign their guy, but in the end it rarely ever just goes south.

Even guys like Peyton Manning have been tagged (twice). I'm sure they somehow made due.

It’s the right move for the Ravens because of the possibility of compensation. But using the word “fair” doesn’t apply. Jackson is completely handcuffed in his ability to negotiate with other teams. For another team the decision entails a long term commitment, adding big money to their cap and spending 2 1st round picks. That limits Jackson’s ability to negotiate.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It’s the right move for the Ravens because of the possibility of compensation. But using the word “fair” doesn’t apply. Jackson is completely handcuffed in his ability to negotiate with other teams. For another team the decision entails a long term commitment, adding big money to their cap and spending 2 1st round picks. That limits Jackson’s ability to negotiate.

No different if he were a F/A...

And as we've seen with the Watson deal - you can absolutely make it work in year 1 or 2, and get the figures in easily under the cap.

It's fair to both sides.

 

[fightinfunbags]

No different if he were a F/A...

And as we've seen with the Watson deal - you can absolutely make it work in year 1 or 2, and get the figures in easily under the cap.

It's fair to both sides.

It’s very different from true FA. There is two of the three components I listed but the 2 first round picks on top of it changes that dynamic. Like most things NFL when it comes to players/owners this is extremely slanted in the direction of the owners. They make the rules. Fair doesn’t apply.

 

[DHoey]

Seems like he gave up on his team last year. Maybe I'm missing something.......

 

[fightinfunbags]

Seems like he gave up on his team last year. Maybe I'm missing something.......

Eye of the beholder. His knee is less than 100% and his earning potential for the rest of his life is on the line. I bet if the Ravens committed to him with a contract he likely plays hurt in a playoff game. Why risk everything for people who haven’t committed to you?

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

What the players haven’t considered:
1. The new team is going to be paying a huge contract and cap number.
2. They’re giving up 2 first round picks for the right to do that.
3. In the end, they may just be doing the work for the Ravens in negotiating a contract for Jackson back to the Ravens.

It’s not as simple as saying I like this guy so I’ll sign him. As per usual, the system is created to fuck over the player and that’s exactly what has happened.

This.

 

[Debbie Does]

How many QBs in the league really are worth that kind of big money plus guarantees?