crazy recruiting scandal breaking right now: USC, Texas & Wake among schools listed

[nddulac]

Yeah, I have a hard time getting too upset with the parents. End of the day, they're trying to take care of their kids.

I disagree. I think it does (almost) irreparable damage. It sends the kid the message that he/she is simply not good enough, can't be good enough with effort, and it doesn't matter whether or not she/he is good enough- there is always a backdoor through which one can scam.

And to me, the most amazing thing, is that it is coaches who are sending the message in return for a quick buck. Coaching is supposed to be about the exact opposite.

Should everyone get a medal? Or just the participants rich enough to buy one?

 

[socaljim242]

I disagree. I think it does (almost) irreparable damage. It sends the kid the message that he/she is simply not good enough, can't be good enough with effort, and it doesn't matter whether or not she/he is good enough- there is always a backdoor through which one can scam.

And to me, the most amazing thing, is that it is coaches who are sending the message in return for a quick buck. Coaching is supposed to be about the exact opposite.

Should everyone get a medal? Or just the participants rich enough to buy one?

Its smells bad but how different is this than a parent "donating" a million and suddenly their kid is registered for the next semester . From what I can see it's the same except this looks more like a bribe because the coaches or administrator gets the cash instead of the school getting the cash. The end result is the same . Some kid who wouldn't have been able to get in with their grades gets to go there. This is was simply finding the least costly way to do it and the schools hate competition . Wealthy people paying to get their kids into exclusive schools. That's been going on since colleges have been around.

 

[Deep Creek]

Just how good of an old boy you are is proportional to how much money you donate. Give a little you are okay. Give a lot and you are the greatest guy in the world.

 

[nddulac]

From what I can see it's the same except this looks more like a bribe because the coaches or administrator gets the cash instead of the school getting the cash.

Um .. what?

What it is is people taking money so they do something they never would have done without taking that money.

In other words, it looks like a bribe . . because that is exactly what it is.

 

[socaljim242]

Um .. what?

What it is is people taking money so they do something they never would have done without taking that money.

In other words, it looks like a bribe . . because that is exactly what it is.

Exactly. And so is the other way. "donating" money to the school and miraculously your kid is accepted . Both are a bribe. Except for the truly rich they get to write it off. They are both bribes .

 

[Innermind]

It's all over the place. A bunch of the stories have been about coaches classifying non-athletes as athletes to get them into the University; despite never actually playing that sport and the coaches get huge payments from the kids for doing this.

USC had fake football player accounts to get kids in:

USC....



makes sense since they already have a fake football coach.

 

[trojanfan12]

While kids have their "preferred" school, there are plenty of undergraduate programs that would still provide a stellar education and the "college experience".

Compromising principles is not the example I would want to set...

I have 4 kids and the 3 daughters all have me wrapped around their little fingers. If one of them was crying because she barely missed getting into the school of her dreams...$15,000 would be worth it just to make it stop. lol

Seriously though, I agree. That's why I said that I like to think I'd do the right thing and not compromising principles is a big part of why. But, it would still be very tempting.

 

[GoldRusher]

Ya know what will teach them cheaters dont ya?

Vacated wins by golly, that’ll show em.

 

[trojanfan12]

I disagree. I think it does (almost) irreparable damage. It sends the kid the message that he/she is simply not good enough, can't be good enough with effort, and it doesn't matter whether or not she/he is good enough- there is always a backdoor through which one can scam.

And to me, the most amazing thing, is that it is coaches who are sending the message in return for a quick buck. Coaching is supposed to be about the exact opposite.

Should everyone get a medal? Or just the participants rich enough to buy one?

I agree. But it's still parents trying to take care of their kids. It may be misguided and send the wrong message, but it's what they're trying to do.

The intent isn't to teach them how to cheat or take shortcuts, even though that is the end result.

The sad thing to me is that, according to reports, most of the kids had no idea this happened, but they could be kicked out of school for it. Apparently, if a kid has already graduated, they can have their degree invalidated.

 

[trojanfan12]

USC....



makes sense since they already have a fake football coach.

Says the fan of a fake NFL team.

 

[trojanfan12]

Its smells bad but how different is this than a parent "donating" a million and suddenly their kid is registered for the next semester . From what I can see it's the same except this looks more like a bribe because the coaches or administrator gets the cash instead of the school getting the cash. The end result is the same. Some kid who wouldn't have been able to get in with their grades gets to go there. This is was simply finding the least costly way to do it and the schools hate competition . Wealthy people paying to get their kids into exclusive schools. That's been going on since colleges have been around.

Agree. Both are bribes. It's just that one is "accepted" and can be talked about in polite company.

 

[Deep Creek]

I agree. But it's still parents trying to take care of their kids. It may be misguided and send the wrong message, but it's what they're trying to do.

The intent isn't to teach them how to cheat or take shortcuts, even though that is the end result.

The sad thing to me is that, according to reports, most of the kids had no idea this happened, but they could be kicked out of school for it. Apparently, if a kid has already graduated, they can have their degree invalidated.

You hit the nail on the head right here. IMHO, where things have gotten sideways is in exactly what the definition of "trying to take care of their kids" means. While there have always been "some" parents that try to "take care of things for their kids" the wrong way, we reached a tipping point several years ago to where that action became the norm and not the exception.

I witnessed the change first hand as a teacher, principal and superintendent for 42+ years. Not all the change was bad believe it or not, but the vast majority of the reasoning for it was very short sighted.

The list of examples is long. Instead of having a kid put together their science project, the parents do it "for them"....not help them, parents do it all!

Under the guise of not wanting to damage their self esteem, we allowed (and often enabled) them to believe they should receive an award without putting in the effort/work needed to merit such an award.

Bottom line is we ain't doing our young any favors by allowing/enabling the evolution of the definition of "parents trying to take care of their kids" to become. In fact, one could easily argue that doing such is a form of child neglect...we are neglecting teaching them things they will need to be successful adults.

 

[trojanfan12]

You hit the nail on the head right here. IMHO, where things have gotten sideways is in exactly what the definition of "trying to take care of their kids" means. While there have always been "some" parents that try to "take care of things for their kids" the wrong way, we reached a tipping point several years ago to where that action became the norm and not the exception.

I witnessed the change first hand as a teacher, principal and superintendent for 42+ years. Not all the change was bad believe it or not, but the vast majority of the reasoning for it was very short sighted.

The list of examples is long. Instead of having a kid put together their science project, the parents do it "for them"....not help them, parents do it all!

Under the guise of not wanting to damage their self esteem, we allowed (and often enabled) them to believe they should receive an award without putting in the effort/work needed to merit such an award.

Bottom line is we ain't doing our young any favors by allowing/enabling the evolution of the definition of "parents trying to take care of their kids" to become. In fact, one could easily argue that doing such is a form of child neglect...we are neglecting teaching them things they will need to be successful adults.

1000% agree.

I saw the change as well, but from a different perspective.

Years ago, I ran a diversion program for first time juvenile offenders.

Kids who had committed minor offenses like shoplifting, possession of marijuana, truancy, etc. would be referred to my program. We would work with them to identify what resources they may need to keep them out of the juvenile justice system and to also provide assistance to their parents (parenting classes, county resources if there were issues in the home where they needed assistance).

A big part of the problems the kids came in with were due to parents trying to be their friend instead of their parent.

Most of those parents would say some version of "I don't understand why my kid is out of control and won't listen to me."

I'd always tell them, for most of their life you've been their friend instead of their parent and defended them and justified their behavior for them. So, the behavior became more extreme. Now, you suddenly want to start parenting them? Of course they're going to fight that. They don't think they're doing anything wrong, because they've never been told they're doing anything wrong."

 

[BamaDude]

I agree. But it's still parents trying to take care of their kids. It may be misguided and send the wrong message, but it's what they're trying to do.

The intent isn't to teach them how to cheat or take shortcuts, even though that is the end result.

The thing is, are they really "taking care of their kids" if they bribe their way into a school that may be academically beyond their abilities? How much prestige is there if they end up flunking out of one of these institutions?

 

[NolePride]

You hit the nail on the head right here. IMHO, where things have gotten sideways is in exactly what the definition of "trying to take care of their kids" means. While there have always been "some" parents that try to "take care of things for their kids" the wrong way, we reached a tipping point several years ago to where that action became the norm and not the exception.

I witnessed the change first hand as a teacher, principal and superintendent for 42+ years. Not all the change was bad believe it or not, but the vast majority of the reasoning for it was very short sighted.

The list of examples is long. Instead of having a kid put together their science project, the parents do it "for them"....not help them, parents do it all!

Under the guise of not wanting to damage their self esteem, we allowed (and often enabled) them to believe they should receive an award without putting in the effort/work needed to merit such an award.

Bottom line is we ain't doing our young any favors by allowing/enabling the evolution of the definition of "parents trying to take care of their kids" to become. In fact, one could easily argue that doing such is a form of child neglect...we are neglecting teaching them things they will need to be successful adults.

There's wisdom in this post.

Personally, I see some of these parents paying that money for their own self-esteem over that of their children.

They lacked the parental skills during the upbringing of their kids and now our attempting to buy education to
give credence to them raising their children properly.

As this drags on, I'm also starting to believe that colleges are going to have to follow USC's lead and remove these
kids from school, especially if they are not advancing properly.

We don't have any problem barring athletes who cheat from school and certainly have no problem punishing
other athletes who followed the cheaters, with team sanctions and the whatnot.

It would be a good lesson for the kids. It would teach them the difference between prioper and improper parenting.

If you expect your children to be intellectual, then you demand it. You don't demand it, don't expect it.

For the kids. Go to a Juco if you're bumped from school. Graduate with an associate degree and move on'
for your final two years.

And those kids will need an education, now more than ever. Their parents have already spent a great
deal of their inheritance on trying to prove to their neighbors that their kids are intelligent.

 

[BamaDude]

You’re right but one of the work Around was scholarship athletes who get preferential treatment during admissions. Coaches on teams like golf, tennis and lower profile sports were taking brides to take walk on’s.

Whose brides were they taking? I'll bet their husbands weren't too happy!

 

[trojanfan12]

@BamaDude

Your post got stuck in the quote.

In the minds of the parents, I'd say yes. That's what they're trying to do.

It's not correct, but that's the intent behind it.

If they're trying to "buy" their kids way into a college, they aren't looking at it from a perspective of the bigger life lesson. They are looking at it from the perspective of "my kid wants this/getting into this school is best for them, so I'm going to make it happen".

 

[olympicoscar]

This will not affect the colleges except for coaches that were in on it. They're history.

 

[nddulac]

Exactly. And so is the other way. "donating" money to the school and miraculously your kid is accepted . Both are a bribe. Except for the truly rich they get to write it off. They are both bribes .

Fair enough.

 

[nddulac]

I agree. But it's still parents trying to take care of their kids. It may be misguided and send the wrong message, but it's what they're trying to do.

I can't argue against that point. As well-intentioned as it might be though, we can agree that is is a bad idea.

The sad thing to me is that, according to reports, most of the kids had no idea this happened, but they could be kicked out of school for it. Apparently, if a kid has already graduated, they can have their degree invalidated.

that would be utter and complete bullshit. Once a kid is on campus, if he/she does the work to earn a degree, the degree should be conferred.

Maybe I would feel differently if the student was shown to have perpetrated a fraud (by being actively involved in the deception) in order to gain admittance. But in a number of cases, the kids didn't even know their exam scores were affected because the alterations happened after the kid turned the exam in!

Although on the other hand . . those kids must have known something was up when they were granted special sittings to take the exams. But hey - maybe I just don't get how the 1%ers live.