Cousins Doesn't Deserve A Longterm Contract

[Stymietee]

Injury?

As for it can't be proven, we can make educated projections by the body of work from the journeymen QB in the league as to the likelihood of success in any system. Tape doesn't lie. Can they read defenses? Can they move in the pocket? Are the accurate? Do they make quick decisions? Can they make the throws? These are just some of the analyses we can do on existing talent that is system independent. We've all seen enough of Bryan Hoyer (as an example) to know he ain't passing for 5000 yds in any system, with any talent around him. Especially with a very limited run game to support him.

None of this answers my questions.

 

[j_y19]

None of this answers my questions.

Sorry, sty, but it does for me. You just may not like, or agree with, the answers, which is OK.

 

[Stymietee]

Injury?

As for it can't be proven, we can make educated projections by the body of work from the journeymen QB in the league as to the likelihood of success in any system. Tape doesn't lie. Can they read defenses? Can they move in the pocket? Are the accurate? Do they make quick decisions? Can they make the throws? These are just some of the analyses we can do on existing talent that is system independent. We've all seen enough of Bryan Hoyer (as an example) to know he ain't passing for 5000 yds in any system, with any talent around him. Especially with a very limited run game to support him.

 

[Stymietee]

Sorry, sty, but it does for me. You just may not like, or agree with, the answers, which is OK.

OK

 

[Sharkinva]

Let me rephrase it like this Sty....

Say you have been searching for a house for I dont know.. the last 20 years. Now you have tried every possible location, you have rented cheap houses. You have over paid for expensive beach front properties that were great in the first year, but three years later you realized the foundation was weak. Finally you find a house that works for you. A little over the budget you originally had in mind.. .but aside from that.. it works. NOw you can stay in this house that works, or move again possibly prolonging the search.


What makes more sense?? Stay put and concentrating your time and effort into other projects, or moving yet again because you might be able to find a house just as good for a lesser price.

As for your any starting QB could do what Kirk has done... well we know of one who couldnt. And the thing is, what other teams STARTER could we get??

 

[skinsdad62]

We have been yearning for stability at qb for 20 years . We finally get a record setting , most likely PB qb and we want to run him out of town ? Look at this daft we have RG 3. The. Loner, and jerod goff lite . Or we want to line up colt McCoy and Nate sudfeld ? Wait let's bring on brain " I can't hold the starting job for the browns " hoyer . Or let's wheel out tony romo for his wheel chair victory lap at 24 mil a year ? How about we simply understand that KC is a franchise. Qb . His numbers show he is and let this guy evolve even more . Listen to us ! When this cat balls we win and when he doesn't we lose . So sorry you can put any shithead at qb you want at qb but putting the resources to replace him still leaves us with the elephant in the room : a defense that could stop an uprising at a nursing home

 

[gkekoa]

Then obviously others can as well.

Yes but would they be as effective and do you let a proven commodity go for a question mark?

 

[Stymietee]

Let me rephrase it like this Sty....

Say you have been searching for a house for I dont know.. the last 20 years. Now you have tried every possible location, you have rented cheap houses. You have over paid for expensive beach front properties that were great in the first year, but three years later you realized the foundation was weak. Finally you find a house that works for you. A little over the budget you originally had in mind.. .but aside from that.. it works. NOw you can stay in this house that works, or move again possibly prolonging the search.


What makes more sense?? Stay put and concentrating your time and effort into other projects, or moving yet again because you might be able to find a house just as good for a lesser price.

As for your any starting QB could do what Kirk has done... well we know of one who couldnt. And the thing is, what other teams STARTER could we get??

Here's where your analogy goes off the track, Ideal today is not so much tomorrow. If you purchase the house with the idea of meeting marrying and having children, it all becomes for naught if you never marry, or have kids. Now in football terms it works like this....as you've correctly stated you've searched hi and low for years just to get a competent QB when eureka one day you have one. Well the problem with that is, now your priorities have changed just as the housing example has. Now you want to win a SB or two. While you were initially extremely pleased with the guy you had, you realize that someone better is needed to achieve that new goal.

Gawd!!! Let Griffin go please, you've missed the point of my last post. Remember I said MOST not all of them.

 

[Stymietee]

Yes but would they be as effective and do you let a proven commodity go for a question mark?

NO you don't let one go for a question mark, dumb franchises do this. Smart teams convinced that they can do better hang on to the proven until their selected successor is ready to go. Why else do you draft QB's ?

 

[Sharkinva]

Here's where your analogy goes off the track, Ideal today is not so much tomorrow. If you purchase the house with the idea of meeting marrying and having children, it all becomes for naught if you never marry, or have kids. Now in football terms it works like this....as you've correctly stated you've searched hi and low for years just to get a competent QB when eureka one day you have one. Well the problem with that is, now your priorities have changed just as the housing example has. Now you want to win a SB or two. While you were initially extremely pleased with the guy you had, you realize that someone better is needed to achieve that new goal.

Gawd!!! Let Griffin go please, you've missed the point of my last post. Remember I said MOST not all of them.

I will just make two points then.

1. You have stated that any current starter in this league could do what Kirk has done in this system. I disagree. There are some guys starting right now that would not be able to do what Kirk has done in this system despite the talent around him.

2. If we replace Kirk, odds are it wont be with some one who is currently starting for another team. Sure Hoyer might shake loose, but do you really think a guy on his 4th team at that point is the answer to a 20 year old question??

 

[Stymietee]

I will just make two points then.

1. You have stated that any current starter in this league could do what Kirk has done in this system. I disagree. There are some guys starting right now that would not be able to do what Kirk has done in this system despite the talent around him.

2. If we replace Kirk, odds are it wont be with some one who is currently starting for another team. Sure Hoyer might shake loose, but do you really think a guy on his 4th team at that point is the answer to a 20 year old question??

1. Wrong...I said MOST

2. Show me where I even mentioned Hoyer, However there are teams that have held on to their backups for a reason. Maybe they are just backups, maybe they are happy with the current guy, or maybe they are the future wherever they are. I have stated this on too many occasions to mention but once again, I believe in real competition. That is, at each and every position which means drafting and acquiring quality football players who either seriously push the current starter or take his job. Have we gotten so accustomed to mediocrity that we can no longer even entertain the idea of winning by constantly being in upgrade mode? Try it...c'mon...try it......Kirk can be replaced just like anyone else!!...see it really is not that scary!

 

[Sharkinva]

1. Wrong...I said MOST

2. Show me where I even mentioned Hoyer, However there are teams that have held on to their backups for a reason. Maybe they are just backups, maybe they are happy with the current guy, or maybe they are the future wherever they are. I have stated this on too many occasions to mention but once again, I believe in real competition. That is, at each and every position which means drafting and acquiring quality football players who either seriously push the current starter or take his job. Have we gotten so accustomed to mediocrity that we can no longer even entertain the idea of winning by constantly being in upgrade mode? Try it...c'mon...try it......Kirk can be replaced just like anyone else!!...see it really is not that scary!

Most of the teams that have any kind of sustained success have stability at QB. You seem so focused on the concept of COULD we replace Kirk, that you ignore the real question... should we at this point be trying to replace him?? Sure if another guy comes in and clearly out plays him in practice, and clearly makes us better.. it should be his job. But the vibe I get is, well we have sucked so long... why settle for stable when we should again be searching for elite. Its not out of the relm that some one could come in an do just as well or better than Kirk. But its more likely some one comes in and we spend another year or two tryin to get to the level where we are now with Kirk.

Or again, we sign him long term, focus on fixing the other issues the team has, and should something better come along at QB... well bonus.

 

[Stymietee]

Most of the teams that have any kind of sustained success have stability at QB. You seem so focused on the concept of COULD we replace Kirk, that you ignore the real question... should we at this point be trying to replace him?? Sure if another guy comes in and clearly out plays him in practice, and clearly makes us better.. it should be his job. But the vibe I get is, well we have sucked so long... why settle for stable when we should again be searching for elite. Its not out of the relm that some one could come in an do just as well or better than Kirk. But its more likely some one comes in and we spend another year or two tryin to get to the level where we are now with Kirk.

Or again, we sign him long term, focus on fixing the other issues the team has, and should something better come along at QB... well bonus.

I'm going to say so flatly...We SHOULD always be in upgrade mode. To me it is NOT an either or proposition but rather one more interested in always getting better, I'm not so rigid in my beliefs that the idea of replacing him begs the questions that could or should entails. The obvious answer is YES to both. We absolutely Could replace him and either suffer the consequences of that move or enjoy the benefits of the same. Unless people are reading something into what I've written regarding Should we replace him, I'll say this again, Unless there is belief that Nate Sudfield is the heir apparent, this organization is still dysfunctional in scope and direction. NO one is putting the "next Brady" tag on Kirk and as such we SHOULD be in replace mode there as well. This is NOT to say that they must move or release the guy, but draft or acquire players at the position who in short order is the heir apparent. Think of it this way if it helps, having Kirk with Colt as his backup vs. An upgrade to Kirk with Kirk as his backup! I'll take the latter. Remember we already have the QB whisperer in JG!!!

 

[Sharkinva]

Chasing the elite QB prospect is WHY we are in the situation we find ourselves in now. Is Kirk a Brady or Manning?? Nope.

Can he be a Smith, Brees, Ryan or Dalton?? Numbers would say yes.

Would I take a guy who more often than not has us contending for or in the playoffs?? IN a heart beat. NOw if you got a better sure fire option... then sure you move in that direction. But to continue to dick around and say.. well we should franchise him again because we MIGHT find some one better. Sorry but to find the next Brady, you need a solid team. Right now we dont have that. And the longer we say, well we need the next Brady, the more we waste trying to find him.

 

[gkekoa]

1. How do we know that another player won't be as effective or (dare I suggest) much better than Kirk in this system? (rhetorical...we don't) Why are some here too afraid to even entertain that idea? Yes he works well in this system with this supporting cast, but that does not mean that someone else could not do the same or better. Unless Franchise QB's are tiered then he is NOT a conventional FQ.

3. NO so, in fact in a rather confusing Q & A Mike Shanahan said recently that Kirk is a franchise QB, can win a Sb and has a work ethic like none he's ever seen. He followed that statement with another curiosity....that (knowing what he did above) there was a conversation regarding the two of them and the decision was to go with Griffin. Point is better athlete does not necessarily equal best fit.

All QB's have bad games, but that not the point either. Take Kirk and put him in any other current system and he struggles because that system lacks the personnel and design that best fits him. On the other hand, take almost any current starting QB and put them in this system with this supporting cast and they do well.

1) How do we know somebody wouldn't be as good as Brady in that system?

 

[Stymietee]

This is going to sound very strange to our fan base, but, considering little facts like having a dedicated GM, scouting department and player personnel staffing, We must always strive to have the very best players on our team at every position. Our second team must become the envy of every other team in the NFL...yeah I know what an outlandish idea, right? Who sets goal that even if so far fetched that falling short still wins championships. Sarcastically, SMH!

 

[Stymietee]

1) How do we know somebody wouldn't be as good as Brady in that system?

We don't, but too many here won't even entertain the idea relating to that possibility. They say things like "stick with the known it's safer!" OR.. "Have guys like Colt and Nate as your backups, it doesn't threaten Kirk's sense of security." ...And my very favorite, "We've suffered for 20 years looking for what we currently have."

I say that there is a much better way that involves holding onto the guy that you have while acquiring/drafting real talent that puts you ever closer to having that level of elitism here.

 

[Stymietee]

This is going to sound very strange to our fan base, but, considering little facts like having a dedicated GM, scouting department and player personnel staffing, We must always strive to have the very best players on our team at every position. Our second team must become the envy of every other team in the NFL...yeah I know what an outlandish idea, right? *Who sets such lofty goals that even if deemed so far fetched or unattainable, creates a system that falling short still wins championships. Sarcastically, SMH!

(*Corrected)

 

[Sharkinva]

We don't, but too many here won't even entertain the idea relating to that possibility. They say things like "stick with the known it's safer!" OR.. "Have guys like Colt and Nate as your backups, it doesn't threaten Kirk's sense of security." ...And my very favorite, "We've suffered for 20 years looking for what we currently have."

I say that there is a much better way that involves holding onto the guy that you have while acquiring/drafting real talent that puts you ever closer to having that level of elitism here.

OK so lets play it your way... .We franchise tag Kirk which is what i think you are calling for.

Do we then spend another high draft pick on a QB and again ignore the defense because we are after all REALLY looking for that elite QB??? Because solid wont do.

Lets say the guy we spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on isnt ready to take the reigns. So we just drooped $24 million to rent Kirk for another year, the Heir apparent isnt ready come 2018 . So do we then double down and pay Kirk $30 million? See its a never ending game to chase the elite QB... how many more draft picks, cap dollars and years do we waste instead of realizing, we have a pretty good QB in Kirk. Better than what we have had in over 20 years at this point. Wouldnt it be nice to NOT look at the next three drafts and say.. well we should draft a QB early???

 

[Stymietee]

OK so lets play it your way... .We franchise tag Kirk which is what i think you are calling for.

Do we then spend another high draft pick on a QB and again ignore the defense because we are after all REALLY looking for that elite QB??? Because solid wont do.

Lets say the guy we spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on isnt ready to take the reigns. So we just drooped $24 million to rent Kirk for another year, the Heir apparent isnt ready come 2018 . So do we then double down and pay Kirk $30 million? See its a never ending game to chase the elite QB... how many more draft picks, cap dollars and years do we waste instead of realizing, we have a pretty good QB in Kirk. Better than what we have had in over 20 years at this point. Wouldnt it be nice to NOT look at the next three drafts and say.. well we should draft a QB early???

Well that the scary version, but it doesn't work with me, settling for pretty good is what gets you to a competitive level, big time games that leads to championships will take more than pretty good and it doesn't have to be at QB. Baltimore did it with defense as did Denver. Taking a QB in the second or third round doesn't hurt you if you're improving at that position. Do you honestly believe that the dark lords are worried about Romo taking up cap space or hurting them elsewhere They will do as necessary to either move him or free cap space elsewhere.

I keep having to remind myself that this is DC and as such can't be relied on to implement creative, functioning methods to get better. Thanks for the reminder that we should just be happy with pretty good, but count me out of that line of thinking. Why should every team in the league have at least a couple of players who top the best in the game list except ours?