Cousins Doesn't Deserve A Longterm Contract

[skinsdad62]

If there is a better option then KC , I am all ears

 

[j_y19]

If there is a better option then KC , I am all ears

Crickets.......

 

[Sharkinva]

If there is a better option then KC , I am all ears

I would think some one would come up with ONE realistic name...


Any one??

 

[gkekoa]

Brian Hoyer...didn't you guys read that nonsense?

 

[j_y19]

Brian Hoyer...didn't you guys read that nonsense?

Yeah, as soon as I saw that, I knew the guy was a crackpot.

 

[Stymietee]

Before we go through all of this crap again, Let me ask the most pertinent question. Is Kirk the beneficiary of the system and talent in it......OR.....does this system and the talent in it operate as it does solely because of Kirk?

 

[gkekoa]

It is a symbiotic relationship. KC fits the scheme.

 

[j_y19]

It is a symbiotic relationship. KC fits the scheme.

Before we go through all of this crap again, Let me ask the most pertinent question. Is Kirk the beneficiary of the system and talent in it......OR.....does this system and the talent in it operate as it does solely because of Kirk?

Of course the talent is not solely due to KC's abilities, but the scheme we run is not unique. The question is can we bring in any other journeyman or rookie QB in here and would that QB have the same success as KC? I would offer that this is not the case. We already know RG3 couldn't run it successfully. I don't care who the QB is, every successful one operates in a scheme that is tailored to their unique talents. Take Brees for an example. He has been very successful (and a QB who I think KC could very well mirror in terms of career arc and capabilities), but he is very scheme dependent. He would not succeed in trying to be Cam. Nor would Cam succeed in trying to be Drew. So I'm not really sure what the point of your question is.

 

[gkekoa]

Name the QBs clearly better than KC under 30.

 

[Stymietee]

Of course the talent is not solely due to KC's abilities, but the scheme we run is not unique. The question is can we bring in any other journeyman or rookie QB in here and would that QB have the same success as KC? I would offer that this is not the case. We already know RG3 couldn't run it successfully. I don't care who the QB is, every successful one operates in a scheme that is tailored to their unique talents. Take Brees for an example. He has been very successful (and a QB who I think KC could very well mirror in terms of career arc and capabilities), but he is very scheme dependent. He would not succeed in trying to be Cam. Nor would Cam succeed in trying to be Drew. So I'm not really sure what the point of your question is.

The point of my question is extremely clear, it seems that answering it has proven to be much more difficult. In essence why is it that so many here want to believe that there could not be an comparable if not better alternative somewhere in the league, still playing in the NCAAF, or just packing groceries ala Kurt Warner? The logic in that fails because what some are saying is that in the event that Kirk is injured, let go or ages out Gruden's system dies and or the current players become less effective with someone else at the helm. . I don't believe that at all, there is always someone somewhere ready to take an NFL job from someone who seems to have a lock on it.

The way that many here have asked the question relating to naming who that person would be creates a obvious situation where that name would either be dismissed out of hand as has already been done on several occasions or not offered at all. If people were honest they would say as I have that Kirk is a good QB in this system, but he is far from being irreplaceable. By whom....take your pick, there are any number of guys who would fit this system with the same supporting cast as well if not better. Desperately wanting a franchise QB seems to be the real issue here.

 

[Stymietee]

It is a symbiotic relationship. KC fits the scheme.

Then obviously others can as well.

 

[j_y19]

The point of my question is extremely clear, it seems that answering it has proven to be much more difficult. In essence why is it that so many here want to believe that there could not be an comparable if not better alternative somewhere in the league, still playing in the NCAAF, or just packing groceries ala Kurt Warner? The logic in that fails because what some are saying is that in the event that Kirk is injured, let go or ages out Gruden's system dies and or the current players become less effective with someone else at the helm. . I don't believe that at all, there is always someone somewhere ready to take an NFL job from someone who seems to have a lock on it.

The way that many here have asked the question relating to naming who that person would be creates a obvious situation where that name would either be dismissed out of hand as has already been done on several occasions or not offered at all. If people were honest they would say as I have that Kirk is a good QB in this system, but he is far from being irreplaceable. By whom....take your pick, there are any number of guys who would fit this system with the same supporting cast as well if not better. Desperately wanting a franchise QB seems to be the real issue here.

Ok, I'll bite. Who is available that can do as well as KC has done the last 2 years? If there are a number of them, let's identify them and debate them. That seems fair.

 

[Stymietee]

Ok, I'll bite. Who is available that can do as well as KC has done the last 2 years? If there are a number of them, let's identify them and debate them. That seems fair.

This has already been done and the results were just as I pointed out. Any name given will be summarily dismissed not because of their abilities in this system with this supporting cast, but because no one wants to believe that it's possible.

 

[j_y19]

This has already been done and the results were just as I pointed out. Any name given will be summarily dismissed.

Hmmm. They can only be summarily dismissed if their worth can't be proven.

 

[Stymietee]

Hmmm. They can only be summarily dismissed if their worth can't be proven.

Exactly! there is no way to tell if another player can be just as effective or better than Kirk in this system with this supporting cast. That is exactly the point! To summarily dismiss that possibility is IMHO blind loyalty, lacking objectivity and a bit of fear of the unknown at play.

Just to add some sanity to this conversation, what's the point in having a backup or drafting another QB if Kirk is the ONLY one who's capable of running things efficiently?

 

[Sharkinva]

This has already been done and the results were just as I pointed out. Any name given will be summarily dismissed.

Mainly because any name given would be speculation laced with a bit of the Cousins doubt. What we know right now are these things.

1. Cousins works well in this system... he isn't elite. But he does perform well enough in this system to be considered a franchise QB.

2. Yes we likely could get some one cheaper who has the same physical ability a Cousins. Possibly even better than Cousins on both a physical and mental standpoint.

3. If it were as easy as well any one could do what Cousins has done, or better..... Rg3 would likely still be starting here. Because he is a better Athlete than Kirk even now.


And for those that say, well a Franchise QB doesnt have a game like Kirk had Monday night when its all on the line..... Please name me a single Elite QB that hasnt had a bad game?? Much less a franchise QB that has not had a bad game or three over their career??

 

[j_y19]

Exactly! there is no way to tell if another player can be just as effective or better than Kirk in this system with this supporting cast. That is exactly the point! To summarily dismiss that possibility is IMHO blind loyalty, lacking objectivity and a bit of fear of the unknown at play.

Just to add some sanity to this conversation, what's the point in having a backup or drafting another QB if Kirk is the ONLY one who's capable of running things efficiently?

Injury?

As for it can't be proven, we can make educated projections by the body of work from the journeymen QB in the league as to the likelihood of success in any system. Tape doesn't lie. Can they read defenses? Can they move in the pocket? Are the accurate? Do they make quick decisions? Can they make the throws? These are just some of the analyses we can do on existing talent that is system independent. We've all seen enough of Bryan Hoyer (as an example) to know he ain't passing for 5000 yds in any system, with any talent around him. Especially with a very limited run game to support him.

 

[skinsdad62]

Eli laid an egg last nite . He is a 2x Super Bowl winner

 

[j_y19]

Eli laid an egg last nite . He is a 2x Super Bowl winner

Eli has laid eggs many nights. But many still consider him a top talent. Honestly, I'd take Cousins over Eli at this point.

 

[Stymietee]

Mainly because any name given would be speculation laced with a bit of the Cousins doubt. What we know right now are these things.

1. Cousins works well in this system... he isn't elite. But he does perform well enough in this system to be considered a franchise QB.

2. Yes we likely could get some one cheaper who has the same physical ability a Cousins. Possibly even better than Cousins on both a physical and mental standpoint.

3. If it were as easy as well any one could do what Cousins has done, or better..... Rg3 would likely still be starting here. Because he is a better Athlete than Kirk even now.


And for those that say, well a Franchise QB doesnt have a game like Kirk had Monday night when its all on the line..... Please name me a single Elite QB that hasnt had a bad game?? Much less a franchise QB that has not had a bad game or three over their career??

1. How do we know that another player won't be as effective or (dare I suggest) much better than Kirk in this system? (rhetorical...we don't) Why are some here too afraid to even entertain that idea? Yes he works well in this system with this supporting cast, but that does not mean that someone else could not do the same or better. Unless Franchise QB's are tiered then he is NOT a conventional FQ.

3. NO so, in fact in a rather confusing Q & A Mike Shanahan said recently that Kirk is a franchise QB, can win a Sb and has a work ethic like none he's ever seen. He followed that statement with another curiosity....that (knowing what he did above) there was a conversation regarding the two of them and the decision was to go with Griffin. Point is better athlete does not necessarily equal best fit.

All QB's have bad games, but that not the point either. Take Kirk and put him in any other current system and he struggles because that system lacks the personnel and design that best fits him. On the other hand, take almost any current starting QB and put them in this system with this supporting cast and they do well.