Cousins Doesn't Deserve A Longterm Contract

[Breed]

@j_y19 n @SoCalWizFan

Concerning the running game and j saying a couple big runs late in games over-inflated the run stats. There's validity in that statement. At the same time though, you could probably make the same claim about 99% of any team rushing attack or single RB rushing stats. But taking away the two runs I believe j is talking about. Kelley's 66 yarder against GB and Brown's 61 yard TD against Chi. The Skins 2016 rushing attack would still average 4.1 ypc or, .2 ypc more than 2015's 3.9 ypc and more importantly, still account for 16 TDs compared to 9 TDs for 2015. But to this point. I would gladly trade both those runs for two 1 yd TDs as long as I could pick the games where those two 1 yd TDs would occur. But my wishes and doing away with the two longest Skins runs of 2016 aside. There isn't any argument that can be made that claims the 2016 Skins rushing game. Didn't make noticeable and siginficant improvements over the 2015 Skins rushing game.

I said the above simply to say this. Do I believe the running game could be improved? Yes, I do and I have always stated such. As I have always pinpointed the areas where I think the improvments are needed. Short yardage and goal-line. I see the problems to our unsatisfactory production in these areas as coming from a multitude of areas. None of which I'm happy to say involve Kirk Cousins. In fact, while he is not part of the problem. I think Cuz could be a small part of the solution. That's another post though.

Despite other posters, not the two of you of whom I addressing this post to, continuing to misrepresent what I've said concerning KC. As I don't see the Skins acquiring any of the NFL QBs I think are better than KC. And I don't know enough about QBs presently in college. Except to say, don't get rid of KC and draft that kid from Clemson. I think the Skins should sign KC, as I've aiways said before. This time though there will be no qualifiers attached to that statement.

The Skins should sign KC.........................long term even.

Edit:
And oh, the Skins defense is unmitigated, w/o a doubt garbage. Yet they to also helped KC at times. That's not to say they didn't or never hurt KC and the offense at other times. They most certainly did,

OK. I'm done.

Peace.

 

[j_y19]

@j_y19 n @SoCalWizFan

Concerning the running game and j saying a couple big runs late in games over-inflated the run stats. There's validity in that statement. At the same time though, you could probably make the same claim about 99% of any team rushing attack or single RB rushing stats. But taking away the two runs I believe j is talking about. Kelley's 66 yarder against GB and Brown's 61 yard TD against Chi. The Skins 2016 rushing attack would still average 4.1 ypc or, .2 ypc more than 2015's 3.9 ypc and more importantly, still account for 16 TDs compared to 9 TDs for 2015. But to this point. I would gladly trade both those runs for two 1 yd TDs as long as I could pick the games where those two 1 yd TDs would occur. But my wishes and doing away with the two longest Skins runs of 2016 aside. There isn't any argument that can be made that claims the 2016 Skins rushing game. Didn't make noticeable and siginficant improvements over the 2015 Skins rushing game.

I said the above simply to say this. Do I believe the running game could be improved? Yes, I do and I have always stated such. As I have always pinpointed the areas where I think the improvments are needed. Short yardage and goal-line. I see the problems to our unsatisfactory production in these areas as coming from a multitude of areas. None of which I'm happy to say involve Kirk Cousins. In fact, while he is not part of the problem. I think Cuz could be a small part of the solution. That's another post though.

Despite other posters, not the two of you of whom I addressing this post to, continuing to misrepresent what I've said concerning KC. As I don't see the Skins acquiring any of the NFL QBs I think are better than KC. And I don't know enough about QBs presently in college. Except to say, don't get rid of KC and draft that kid from Clemson. I think the Skins should sign KC, as I've aiways said before. This time though there will be no qualifiers attached to that statement.

The Skins should sign KC.........................long term even.

Edit:
And oh, the Skins defense is unmitigated, w/o a doubt garbage. Yet they to also helped KC at times. That's not to say they didn't or never hurt KC and the offense at other times. They most certainly did,

OK. I'm done.

Peace.

Fair response. We are of a like mind. I'm done also.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Sounds good Breed.

 

[skinsdad62]

@j_y19 n @SoCalWizFan

Concerning the running game and j saying a couple big runs late in games over-inflated the run stats. There's validity in that statement. At the same time though, you could probably make the same claim about 99% of any team rushing attack or single RB rushing stats. But taking away the two runs I believe j is talking about. Kelley's 66 yarder against GB and Brown's 61 yard TD against Chi. The Skins 2016 rushing attack would still average 4.1 ypc or, .2 ypc more than 2015's 3.9 ypc and more importantly, still account for 16 TDs compared to 9 TDs for 2015. But to this point. I would gladly trade both those runs for two 1 yd TDs as long as I could pick the games where those two 1 yd TDs would occur. But my wishes and doing away with the two longest Skins runs of 2016 aside. There isn't any argument that can be made that claims the 2016 Skins rushing game. Didn't make noticeable and siginficant improvements over the 2015 Skins rushing game.

I said the above simply to say this. Do I believe the running game could be improved? Yes, I do and I have always stated such. As I have always pinpointed the areas where I think the improvments are needed. Short yardage and goal-line. I see the problems to our unsatisfactory production in these areas as coming from a multitude of areas. None of which I'm happy to say involve Kirk Cousins. In fact, while he is not part of the problem. I think Cuz could be a small part of the solution. That's another post though.

Despite other posters, not the two of you of whom I addressing this post to, continuing to misrepresent what I've said concerning KC. As I don't see the Skins acquiring any of the NFL QBs I think are better than KC. And I don't know enough about QBs presently in college. Except to say, don't get rid of KC and draft that kid from Clemson. I think the Skins should sign KC, as I've aiways said before. This time though there will be no qualifiers attached to that statement.

The Skins should sign KC.........................long term even.

Edit:



And oh, the Skins defense is unmitigated, w/o a doubt garbage. Yet they to also helped KC at times. That's not to say they didn't or never hurt KC and the offense at other times. They most certainly did,

OK. I'm done.

Peace.

no no no you damn hater not so fast we 34 more days of this crap

 

[Breed]

no no no you damn hater not so fast we 34 more days of this crap

No worries. I can just change players. The OLB thread looks to have some potential. I'll start now. That B grade you gave the OLBs is still too damn high................heh.

 

[redskin4209]

Questions emerge if Colt McCoy can produce similar results at lesser cost than Kirk Cousins, per source

Questions emerge if Colt McCoy can produce similar results at lesser cost than Kirk Cousins

 

[Skin'EmAll]

This is a tough year for Jay too. He went from a King to a pawn. If Cousins goes to SF for picks, what stops him from rookie sabotage? If Cousins gets a long term deal and they don't win a playoff game, Jay is a failure and Cousins becomes Oswielier. I mean these guys are screwed.

 

[redskin4209]

Yeap all of this is possible. I think KC is a okay QB who can't win big games but he want to be paid like an elite QB. However if we do keep him and Jay we better improve our running game and I am sure that's exactly what SF will do also.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yeap all of this is possible. I think KC is a okay QB who can't win big games but he want to be paid like an elite QB. However if we do keep him and Jay we better improve our running game and I am sure that's exactly what SF will do also.

Its comments like these that have me hoping Cousins does get out of DC. As i have said, this fanbase wont be happy with an Alex Smith type. And I know people say Cousins wants to get paid like an elite. But Im sorry if you look around I have shown where Jay Cutler got a contract very similar to Andrew Luck... three years ago. So the $125M range is no longer ELITE money.

Like I been hinting at, I dont think this owner, or the fans are going to settle for anything less than an Aron Rogers type and would rather flounder a few more years while we chase after it than "settle" for a good QB that isnt considered elite.

 

[redskin4209]

Well shark we just disagree that's all. When we needed KC in big games he failed. It's that simple and that's what make me uncomfortable with him. You have it or you don't have it. I just believe he's over hype until he can show me he can win the big games. Now if we sign him I do understand we will have some money left over to sign some other players. On the other hand if we can get 2 number one's for Cousins I'm making the move. See ya KC and wish you luck some were else.

 

[Sharkinva]

Well shark we just disagree that's all. When we needed KC in big games he failed. It's that simple and that's what make me uncomfortable with him. You have it or you don't have it. I just believe he's over hype until he can show me he can win the big games. Now if we sign him I do understand we will have some money left over to sign some other players. On the other hand if we can get 2 number one's for Cousins I'm making the move. See ya KC and wish you luck some were else.

So I will ask you this..... Do you give up two first rounders for a player the other team doesnt want?? Also remember we are talking about an owner who let a future hall of fame CB go for an above average RB... and gave up a 2nd rounder to boot.

 

[Breed]

@Sharkinva

What Cutler and Luck contracts are you talking about far as being similar? Certainly not the examples below and just for shits and giggles. I put Alex Smith's present contract numbers up there as well. I can't speak for anyone else, but if Kirk and his agent came to the Skins with Alex Smith numbers far as the contract they wanted, The Skins would be idiots to not jump on that deal with a quickness.


Alex Smith
CONTRACT:4 yr(s) / $68,000,000, SIGNING BONUS$18,000,000, AVERAGE SALARY$17,000,000, GUARANTEED:$45,000,000

Jay Cutler
CONTRACT:7 yr(s) / $126,700,000 SIGNING BONUS- AVERAGE SALARY$18,100,000 GUARANTEED:$54,000,000

Andrew Luck
CONTRACT:5 yr(s) / $122,970,000 SIGNING BONUS$32,000,000 AVERAGE SALARY$24,594,000 GUARANTEED:$87,000,000

 

[Sharkinva]

@Sharkinva

What Cutler and Luck contracts are you talking about far as being similar? Certainly not the examples below and just for shits and giggles. I put Alex Smith's present contract numbers up there as well. I can't speak for anyone else, but if Kirk and his agent came to the Skins with Alex Smith numbers far as the contract they wanted, The Skins would be idiots to not jump on that deal with a quickness.


Alex Smith
CONTRACT:4 yr(s) / $68,000,000, SIGNING BONUS$18,000,000, AVERAGE SALARY$17,000,000, GUARANTEED:$45,000,000

Jay Cutler
CONTRACT:7 yr(s) / $126,700,000 SIGNING BONUS- AVERAGE SALARY$18,100,000 GUARANTEED:$54,000,000

Andrew Luck
CONTRACT:5 yr(s) / $122,970,000 SIGNING BONUS$32,000,000 AVERAGE SALARY$24,594,000 GUARANTEED:$87,000,000

Cutlers deal was signed 4 years ago. And there were guarantee Escalators in the deal. Smiths deal was signed two years ago. You really think if he was getting a new deal now he would get signed for what he is making??

Or put it this way... you think you can walk into a Dealership now and say, I want a 2017, but Im not going to pay any more than what it went for in 2014.


And again, even with ALL that guaranteed money, if the Colts ever had a reason to, they could outright release Luck in 2018 and it would actually SAVE them $5.2 Million dollars.

~~~~Warning the next statement is just a general statement and not directed at any poster in particular. Im just adding it to the end of a quoted reply~~~~


At times Im starting to wonder if this team suffers from a form of Stockholm syndrome. This is the first time in 25 years we have had back to back seasons of actual progress, and the first thing we think is... well lets see how we can find a reason to go in a different direction. Are we so used to things being screwed up, we dont know how to handle it wen they actually are'nt for once??

 

[Stymietee]

Cutlers deal was signed 4 years ago. And there were guarantee Escalators in the deal. Smiths deal was signed two years ago. You really think if he was getting a new deal now he would get signed for what he is making??

Or put it this way... you think you can walk into a Dealership now and say, I want a 2017, but Im not going to pay any more than what it went for in 2014.


And again, even with ALL that guaranteed money, if the Colts ever had a reason to, they could outright release Luck in 2018 and it would actually SAVE them $5.2 Million dollars.

~~~~Warning the next statement is just a general statement and not directed at any poster in particular. Im just adding it to the end of a quoted reply~~~~


At times Im starting to wonder if this team suffers from a form of Stockholm syndrome. This is the first time in 25 years we have had back to back seasons of actual progress, and the first thing we think is... well lets see how we can find a reason to go in a different direction. Are we so used to things being screwed up, we dont know how to handle it wen they actually are'nt for once??

Isn't it possible that a "different direction" is also a better thing than we've become accustomed to? We aren't accustomed to winning, certainly not being perennial contenders, and thinking about a SB, well that's...oh never mind. What we are accustomed to are teams that tease which any objective examination shows, is a trait in every Washington sports franchise. Don't know what it is, maybe thinking that they are more than what they actually are has something to do with it. Maybe there's a lack of vision, fear or utter futility that convinces us that 9-7 and 8-7-1 is improvement and not actually average. Well to be fair, average is improvement but honestly is that really what we want, just another tease?

It's not Stockholm syndrome, where a captives begins to have positive feelings towards their captors, not even close. In psychological circles it is closer to escapism where people often use other means to divert attention from reality instead of working to improve their condition.

 

[Breed]

Cutlers deal was signed 4 years ago. And there were guarantee Escalators in the deal. Smiths deal was signed two years ago. You really think if he was getting a new deal now he would get signed for what he is making??

I dunno. You're the one though who said they signed similar deals. By the numbers those deals don't look all that similar to me.

Or put it this way... you think you can walk into a Dealership now and say, I want a 2017, but Im not going to pay any more than what it went for in 2014.

I wouldn't expect anyone to try and make that comparison, but I can't call it, homey. Since I was 16 years old. Every car I've bought was paid for with a bag of cash money. When I drove it off the dealership lot or out of someone else's driveway or wherever. That car was mine, paid for in full.

And again, even with ALL that guaranteed money, if the Colts ever had a reason to, they could outright release Luck in 2018 and it would actually S,AVE them $5.2 Million dollars.

Saving 5.2 mill in comparison to having to pay 87 mill eh. Alrighty than! Heh.



~~~~Warning the next statement is just a general statement and not directed at any poster in particular. Im just adding it to the end of a quoted reply~~~~

At times Im starting to wonder if this team suffers from a form of Stockholm syndrome. This is the first time in 25 years we have had back to back seasons of actual progress, and the first thing we think is... well lets see how we can find a reason to go in a different direction. Are we so used to things being screwed up, we dont know how to handle it wen they actually are'nt for once??

Not to quibble, but its been 18 years not 25. Oddly enough the Skins had an indentical finish then 9-7, 8-7-1, as they do now. On a serious note though. Ending the 2016 season as we did, going 2-4 and failing multiple times to secure a postseason berth was bitterly disapopointing to me. Kirk's play was also very uneven the last 5 weeks as well.

Far as Stockholm syndrome goes. I don't know anything about that. I am a Redskins fan though so I do know, quite well in fact, how capable this organization is at fuckin up a wet dream. Hell, even when they seem to do everything right, Like franchising Brian Orakpo for example, what happens? He plays less than half a season before injury sidelines him and he has only a half sack to show for 7 weeks of play. The Skins rightfully, at least imo, cut Rak loose and signed RK to a long term contract. Still, given what Rak produced that season. The Skins cvould've just cut him outright and saved themselves 11 mill or whatever Rak was paiod that year.

That was just radar blip compared to the Skins next big decision about keeping or not keeping a player with Kirk Cousins. Who has certainly played great at times and has put up 2 impressive seasons stat-wise for the most part. Leading some Skins fans to want to get him signed and under conttract yesterday. But there were still enough warts, coming up small in big games, unimpressive W/L record against winning teams, red zone issues that persisietd throughout the entire 2016 season. Leading other Skins fans to say he doesn't deserve a big money deal and if he doesn't relent on wanting that big money deal, cut him loose. e

Then there's fans like me. Who are worried that no matter what the Skins do. Their fault, Cuz's fault, my fault, your fault, nobody's fault, They will somehow, someway, end up on the "You've been fucked......again." side of the stick.

 

[skinsdad62]

guys i just cant see kizer , watson trubinsky or mahomes coming in here and winning 10 games as a rookie . i really cant see colt mccoy doing that either or suds

 

[Stymietee]

guys i just cant see kizer , watson trubinsky or mahomes coming in here and winning 10 games as a rookie . i really cant see colt mccoy doing that either or suds

OK let's say that with any one of those rookies, we get 4 or 5 wins out of them on their talents, a much improved defense account for at least an additional 3 or 4 without ever accounting for the upgraded RB and road grading OG which gives us a shot at another 2 or 3. Even if we go 7-9, 8-8 or 9-7 if lucky it's not a step back.

 

[skinsdad62]

OK let's say that with any one of those rookies, we get 4 or 5 wins out of them on their talents, a much improved defense account for at least an additional 3 or 4 without ever accounting for the upgraded RB and road grading OG which gives us a shot at another 2 or 3. Even if we go 7-9, 8-8 or 9-7 if lucky it's not a step back.

the thing is sty , is our defense has a ways to go just to be middle of the road . now in my opinion with KC we are a 10 win team with a chance to win a playoff game with a middle of the pack defense

this team has to learn to win big games as well

 

[Sharkinva]

guys i just cant see kizer , watson trubinsky or mahomes coming in here and winning 10 games as a rookie . i really cant see colt mccoy doing that either or suds

I think I figured out the grand plan though.

Deal Kirk, if we cant win with Colt or what ever other retread we plug in, Gruden gets fired. He will be a worthy sacrifice if it then allows us to be in play to draft
Sam Darnold

And yes a long term deal for Kirk would take us out of that sweeps stakes.

So in short, we finally get to the root of it. Cousins and Gruden are worth sacrificing if it gives us a shot at getting Darnold.

 

[Sharkinva]

I dunno. You're the one though who said they signed similar deals. By the numbers those deals don't look all that similar to me.



I wouldn't expect anyone to try and make that comparison, but I can't call it, homey. Since I was 16 years old. Every car I've bought was paid for with a bag of cash money. When I drove it off the dealership lot or out of someone else's driveway or wherever. That car was mine, paid for in full.



Saving 5.2 mill in comparison to having to pay 87 mill eh. Alrighty than! Heh.



~~~~Warning the next statement is just a general statement and not directed at any poster in particular. Im just adding it to the end of a quoted reply~~~~




Not to quibble, but its been 18 years not 25. Oddly enough the Skins had an indentical finish then 9-7, 8-7-1, as they do now. On a serious note though. Ending the 2016 season as we did, going 2-4 and failing multiple times to secure a postseason berth was bitterly disapopointing to me. Kirk's play was also very uneven the last 5 weeks as well.

Far as Stockholm syndrome goes. I don't know anything about that. I am a Redskins fan though so I do know, quite well in fact, how capable this organization is at fuckin up a wet dream. Hell, even when they seem to do everything right, Like franchising Brian Orakpo for example, what happens? He plays less than half a season before injury sidelines him and he has only a half sack to show for 7 weeks of play. The Skins rightfully, at least imo, cut Rak loose and signed RK to a long term contract. Still, given what Rak produced that season. The Skins cvould've just cut him outright and saved themselves 11 mill or whatever Rak was paiod that year.

That was just radar blip compared to the Skins next big decision about keeping or not keeping a player with Kirk Cousins. Who has certainly played great at times and has put up 2 impressive seasons stat-wise for the most part. Leading some Skins fans to want to get him signed and under conttract yesterday. But there were still enough warts, coming up small in big games, unimpressive W/L record against winning teams, red zone issues that persisietd throughout the entire 2016 season. Leading other Skins fans to say he doesn't deserve a big money deal and if he doesn't relent on wanting that big money deal, cut him loose. e

Then there's fans like me. Who are worried that no matter what the Skins do. Their fault, Cuz's fault, my fault, your fault, nobody's fault, They will somehow, someway, end up on the "You've been fucked......again." side of the stick.

Just a quick math correction for you here bro.

That $87 MIllion Luck got... was only for career ending injury due tto football actions. Meaning he gets stinglinged during a game. His ACTUAL guarantee provided he doesnt you know... die on the field... $47 million is fully guaranteed at signing.


Here is the full shpeal


Andrew Luck signed a five year contract extension worth $122,970,000 with the Colts on June 29, 2016. All contract information comes via a report by Pro Football Talk. Per PFT Luck received $87 million in injury guarantees of which $47 million is fully guaranteed at signing. The full guarantee includes a $32 million signing bonus, Lucks 2016 paragraph 5 salary, and a $3 million 2017 roster bonus. If Luck is on the roster on the 5th day of the 2017 League Year another $25 million will vest into full guarantees. Those vesting salaries include Lucks base salaries in 2017 and 2018 plus $3 million in roster bonuses in 2017 and 2018. Another $6 million in 2019 salary will vest if on the roster the 5th day of the 2018 Leaue Year. Luck aso has an injury guaranteed September 2019 roster bonus, an $11 million roster bonus due the 3rd day of the 2020 league year and a $10 million roster bonus in 2021.



SO yea, not the mind whooping oh my god elite and only elite contract its pimped out to be.

If Luck shits the bead this year, the Colts would have paid in total $57M for two years of service... or roughly $28.5M a season. And yea that would suck.... BUt I dont see Colts fans angling to deal him and sacrifice the coach to try and get the next mobile QB either.