Cousins Doesn't Deserve A Longterm Contract

[ehb5]

guys i just cant see kizer , watson trubinsky or mahomes coming in here and winning 10 games as a rookie . i really cant see colt mccoy doing that either or suds

I cant see McCoy or Sudfield doing it. The other 4 you never know.

 

[ehb5]

You mean like we did with Champ Bailey?? If IM in Kirks position and they give me the non exclusive tag, I come back with this.... IM going where I want, or I will simply sign the tag and we can do this dance again next year.

And you are incorrect, Kirk has all the leverage. Because if the Skins try and trade his rights to a shit show like the Browns, all he need do is sign the tag offer, and refuse to show up for the new team for seven days. Trade reascended and the Skins have two options... play him at the tag price, or release him and STILL pay him.

I actually totally agree with you that Kirk has all the leverage and that there is a disconnect between saying hes not that valuable and that we can get 2 firsts. I certainly dont expect us to get 2 firsts especially if 1 of them is #2 overall. BUT I think its important to remember teams are stupid with Quarterbacks (See: Osweiler, Wentz, Goff, etc) so its never out of the question that a team overreacts and overspends for a QB that doesnt even seem wanted by its current team.

 

[skinsdad62]

I cant see McCoy or Sudfield doing it. The other 4 you never know.

how many rookie qbs have won 10 games ? not nearly as many who didnt

 

[ehb5]

how many rookie qbs have won 10 games ? not nearly as many who didnt

For sure. Not saying its likely. But at least we could put them in a good situation.

 

[skinsdad62]

For sure. Not saying its likely. But at least we could put them in a good situation.

not with the holes in our defense

 

[ehb5]

not with the holes in our defense

You dont think its even possible?

 

[skinsdad62]

You dont think its even possible?

come on possible yes , do i bet my future on the likelihood of it ? no you dont pin your hopes on such a low probability of outcome

 

[Sharkinva]

For sure. Not saying its likely. But at least we could put them in a good situation.

Playing Devils advocate.


How exactly is a rookie QB under a coach who will likely be on the hot seat, with a new defensive Coordinator trying to improve a bottom five defense.

How is any of this putting a Rookie QB in a GOOD situation??

 

[Rowdy]

I cant believe we are even debating this. If we can sign him without totally using all our cap money to me its a no brainer. Having no QB why this team has been so bad for along time because of chasing for a QB. Therefore this deal will get done.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

You dont think its even possible?

This is laughable. Take the money for Kirk, and since its likely we are going to remain in the 3-4,
get a Defensive line, ILB & Safety. That should get you 9 wins with a rookie at QB. 9 wins is enough to get you a wildcard beating. In 2018, baring injury, the team should have enough talent, experience and money to make a deep run in the playoffs

 

[ehb5]

Playing Devils advocate.


How exactly is a rookie QB under a coach who will likely be on the hot seat, with a new defensive Coordinator trying to improve a bottom five defense.

How is any of this putting a Rookie QB in a GOOD situation??

Assuming we keep DJax and Garcon hes coming into a situation with a very good offensive minded coach and the best group of pass catchers in the NFL along with a solid offensive line. Most QB prospects get drafted into talentless rosters.

 

[ehb5]

This is laughable. Take the money for Kirk, and since its likely we are going to remain in the 3-4,
get a Defensive line, ILB & Safety. That should get you 9 wins with a rookie at QB. 9 wins is enough to get you a wildcard beating. In 2018, baring injury, the team should have enough talent, experience and money to make a deep run in the playoffs

Wait, whats laughable?

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Wait, whats laughable?

not your comments! just that a rookie can't immediately get 10 wins or get us in the playoffs.
in the NFC EAST, 9 is usually enough. Thanks for asking, and not overreacting...i'm in agreement with you.

 

[Sharkinva]

This is laughable. Take the money for Kirk, and since its likely we are going to remain in the 3-4,
get a Defensive line, ILB & Safety. That should get you 9 wins with a rookie at QB. 9 wins is enough to get you a wildcard beating. In 2018, baring injury, the team should have enough talent, experience and money to make a deep run in the playoffs

Unless you are thinking Munusky is the guy, its going to take a year or two for a NEW DC to get his system in place. Add a bunch of new players to boot, IM finding nine wins from a rookie as a real stretch. Especially considering we are going to have the awesome task of playing some of the better defenses like NY, Seattle, Denver and Oakland.


Side note, we havent even been able to get a DC at the moment.. so are you REALLY seeing some of the premium free agents on defense sitting around going... OH HELL YES!! Redskins here i come.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Unless you are thinking Munusky is the guy, its going to take a year or two for a NEW DC to get his system in place. Add a bunch of new players to boot, IM finding nine wins from a rookie as a real stretch. Especially considering we are going to have the awesome task of playing some of the better defenses like NY, Seattle, Denver and Oakland.


Side note, we havent even been able to get a DC at the moment.. so are you REALLY seeing some of the premium free agents on defense sitting around going... OH HELL YES!! Redskins here i come.

I DID jump the gun, but I'm assuming the 3-4 concepts will be similar with whatever guy that play madden 17 that gets hired. Its safe to say the offense, even with a new QB shouldn't regress too much. I think we could mirror what dallas did. Force teams to take away crowder, which opens up 30+ yard plays or more rushing plays.
Reed still can't be covered 1-on-1. And its likely, our own talent improves at guard or we upgrade.

On defense in the 3-4, Whitner obviously had no coverage skills, but shockingly was out of position AND couldn't tackle. Put anyone else back there and I think the defense improves. In fact, a FA and Cravens could be a huge help to our front 3. What the skins tried to do with the ILBs and DLine would be justified with elite DBs.
until they make a legit effort to fix the defense, only Aaron Rogers could get us in the playoffs

 

[Stymietee]

I cant believe we are even debating this. If we can sign him without totally using all our cap money to me its a no brainer. Having no QB why this team has been so bad for along time because of chasing for a QB. Therefore this deal will get done.

I honestly don't believe that the debate is about signing him. To me it's more about the level of confidence that the powers that are, have in Kirk Cousin's ability to show them more than he already has in an area of his game where he needs to become more efficient. The name of this game is scoring 1 point more than the opposition and it happens that this is the weaker part of Kirk's game (25 TD's this year 29 last year) It really doesn't matter if we had a QB who throws for a million yards between the twenty yard lines, if he can't figure out a way to punch it in, with inarguably the best passing weapons in the NFL but instead regresses a bit with the same cast around him. This is the question that has to be answered and they must get it right. If they feel that he can step up, he'll get his money, if not.....well......that's why these boards are lit up at this point in the off season.

People who care a lot about this team are rightfully worried about this decision. There is so much passion being displayed here and elsewhere over this one issue that I wonder whether Kirk is resigned or not he'll find himself in a no win situation as expectations rise upon a new contract and the "I told you so's" get louder if they let him go and the team doesn't get better. I am at 98% sure that Kirk gets a new deal, but I have prepared myself for that not to happen. Love this team but I've decided long ago not to spend anymore emotional capital on it.

 

[Sharkinva]

I think we could mirror what dallas did.

Again, there is the skewed thinking.

Dallas did what they did sure by bringing in a rookie QB and RB.

What you miss is that Dallas also did it with e defensive scheme that they have been working on for FOUR years and finally got it right. You do realize Dallas had a top five over all defense, and top TWO in rushing defense?? Not to take away from what Dak and Zeke did, but give Dallas our defense and thats a 6-8 win team.

And logic would suggest a new DC with new players at key positions is not going to sniff top five defense realm. I get it, there are $125M or more reasons not to resign Kirk. But I will trump that with this


2016 Kirk Cousins (16)
2015 Kirk Cousins (16)
2014 Robert Griffin III (7) / Kirk Cousins (5) / Colt McCoy (4)
2013 Robert Griffin III (13) / Kirk Cousins (3)
2012 Robert Griffin III (15) / Kirk Cousins (1)
2011 Rex Grossman (13) / John Beck (3)
2010 Donovan McNabb (13) / Rex Grossman (3)
2009 Jason Campbell (16)
2008 Jason Campbell (16)
2007 Jason Campbell (13) / Todd Collins (3)
2006 Mark Brunell (9) / Jason Campbell (7)
2005 Mark Brunell (15) / Patrick Ramsey (1)
2004 Mark Brunell (9) / Patrick Ramsey (7)
2003 Patrick Ramsey (11) / Tim Hasselbeck (5)
2002 Shane Matthews (7) / Patrick Ramsey (5) / Danny Wuerffel (4)
2001 Tony Banks (14) / Jeff George (2)
2000 Brad Johnson (11) / Jeff George (5)
1999 Brad Johnson (16)
1998 Trent Green (14) / Gus Frerotte (2)
1997 Gus Frerotte (13) / Jeff Hostetler (3)
1996 Gus Frerotte (16)
1995 Gus Frerotte (11) / Heath Shuler (5)
1994 Heath Shuler (8) / John Friesz (4) / Gus Frerotte (4)


Of that list name me 3 you would keep over Kirk. I will even spot you Brad Johnson. So name me two QBs other than Kirk or Brad in the last 22 years who were good as or better.

Now we can play the we might strike gold with a Rookie QB all day. BUt for the most part we have been playing that game for 22 years... where has it gotten us??

 

[Breed]

how many rookie qbs have won 10 games ? not nearly as many who didnt

I saw something on Dax Prescott that said in the SB era 1966 to the present, 14 rookie QBs have won 9 or more games their rookie season. The thing though that makes Prescott somewhat unique is how low he was drafted. Making his accomplishments this year that much more rare.

 

[Sharkinva]

I saw something on Dax Prescott that said in the SB era 1966 to the present, 14 rookie QBs have won 9 or more games their rookie season. The thing though that makes Prescott somewhat unique is how low he was drafted. Making his accomplishments this year that much more rare.

Since 1966 there have been 749 QBs drafted. 1 out of every 53.5 drafted QBs.

/Begin Sarcasm

Well fuck sign me up!!

/End Sarcasm

~~ Disclaimer~~ I was not particularly being sarcastic to you Breed, Just the notion that we have a good shot at doing what Dallas did with a Rookie QB.

 

[Breed]

Again, there is the skewed thinking.

Dallas did what they did sure by bringing in a rookie QB and RB.

What you miss is that Dallas also did it with e defensive scheme that they have been working on for FOUR years and finally got it right. You do realize Dallas had a top five over all defense, and top TWO in rushing defense?? Not to take away from what Dak and Zeke did, but give Dallas our defense and thats a 6-8 win team.

And logic would suggest a new DC with new players at key positions is not going to sniff top five defense realm. I get it, there are $125M or more reasons not to resign Kirk. But I will trump that with this


2016 Kirk Cousins (16)
2015 Kirk Cousins (16)
2014 Robert Griffin III (7) / Kirk Cousins (5) / Colt McCoy (4)
2013 Robert Griffin III (13) / Kirk Cousins (3)
2012 Robert Griffin III (15) / Kirk Cousins (1)
2011 Rex Grossman (13) / John Beck (3)
2010 Donovan McNabb (13) / Rex Grossman (3)
2009 Jason Campbell (16)
2008 Jason Campbell (16)
2007 Jason Campbell (13) / Todd Collins (3)
2006 Mark Brunell (9) / Jason Campbell (7)
2005 Mark Brunell (15) / Patrick Ramsey (1)
2004 Mark Brunell (9) / Patrick Ramsey (7)
2003 Patrick Ramsey (11) / Tim Hasselbeck (5)
2002 Shane Matthews (7) / Patrick Ramsey (5) / Danny Wuerffel (4)
2001 Tony Banks (14) / Jeff George (2)
2000 Brad Johnson (11) / Jeff George (5)
1999 Brad Johnson (16)
1998 Trent Green (14) / Gus Frerotte (2)
1997 Gus Frerotte (13) / Jeff Hostetler (3)
1996 Gus Frerotte (16)
1995 Gus Frerotte (11) / Heath Shuler (5)
1994 Heath Shuler (8) / John Friesz (4) / Gus Frerotte (4)


Of that list name me 3 you would keep over Kirk. I will even spot you Brad Johnson. So name me two QBs other than Kirk or Brad in the last 22 years who were good as or better.

Now we can play the we might strike gold with a Rookie QB all day. BUt for the most part we have been playing that game for 22 years... where has it gotten us??

Bit of a fallacy far as Dallas' defense goes. The best thing about the Dallas defense was the Dallas offensive line. The best offesnes they faced were the Steelers who scored 30 points on em. The Packers twice and they scored 34 and 27 on them and us. We scored 23 (should been significantly more imo) and 26 and that should been more as well imo.