Cousins Doesn't Deserve A Longterm Contract

[redskin4209]

So I will ask you this..... Do you give up two first rounders for a player the other team doesnt want?? Also remember we are talking about an owner who let a future hall of fame CB go for an above average RB... and gave up a 2nd rounder to boot.

Sorry Shark I been away for awhile. Please explain your question. I was referring to the 49er's.

 

[Sharkinva]

Sorry Shark I been away for awhile. Please explain your question. I was referring to the 49er's.

I know you were. But Im asking, put yourself in the other teams shoes for a moment.

I will say it like this. If you know the other team doesnt want to pay the guy, and have a pretty good idea they dont want to really keep him. Would you be willing to give up two first rounders for a player you know the other team really doesnt want to keep in the first place??

The Niners might want Kirk, but Im starting to think that the Redskins dont unless he comes on the cheap (relatively speaking). Im not going to pay close to top dollar AND give up two first rounders for a player I suspect you dont really want any way. I will make the call sure. But if the Skins say we want two firsts or we will keep him, i call their bluff. Offer them two 2nds, and then settle on the #2 and a 3rd rounder max. After all, if you think little enough of him to deal him, IM not going to over pay to give you a reason to do what you want to do any way.

 

[Sharkinva]

Its amazing the ability of Redskins nation to both under value a players worth to the team, and in the same instance expect to get top value in trade for guys that many of us would be more than happy to deal to someplace else.

This guy is just average, nothing really special... But I bet we could get two first rounders for him.

 

[Stymietee]

Its amazing the ability of Redskins nation to both under value a players worth to the team, and in the same instance expect to get top value in trade for guys that many of us would be more than happy to deal to someplace else.

This guy is just average, nothing really special... But I bet we could get two first rounders for him.

There's a flaw in your logic and I suspect that you know it. Just messin' with folks huh?

 

[Sharkinva]

There's a flaw in your logic and I suspect that you know it. Just messin' with folks huh?

Do please tell me the flaw?? Is it desperation of the other team?? Again I ask, would YOU give up two first rounders for a guy that you have labeled as above average, unable to win the big game and you suspect the other team doesnt really want to keep??


Again I will remind you, we gave up a future hall of fame CB for an above average RB... and had to give up a second rounder to boot. The only way two first rounders are in play is if a bidding war starts. And if Kirk is smart and the team hits him with the exclusive rights tag, he signs it the minute they put it in front of him, and refuses to report for teams like the Browns, Jets or any other shit show.

 

[chillerdab]

If the redskins non-exclusive franchise tag KC, then they aren't saying "they don't want him" Sharkinva. They're saying, "you cost too much, and you aren't worth what you think you are." The non-exclusive franchise tag is the only way NFL teams have to protect themselves either via draft picks or contract. There is no "transition tag - i.e. 1st and 3rd round picks" any more.

If the redskins tag KC non-exclusively, they should make it be known to all the teams that it'll cost them 2 first rounders - no more, no less - as is their right. If the Niners want to pay KC all that money AND fork over 2 number ones, so be it.

KC has most of the leverage, but he doesn't have all of it. The niners are terrible. The browns are terrible. The Jets are terrible. The bears are terrible. The teams that need a qb have little to no weapons. The redskins have a lot of weapons, even if BOTH Garcon AND Jackson aren't resigned. The redskins ALSO have a fantastic oline. They have some semblance of a running game, an excellent 3rd down back, and stud TE, and a very good backup te.

Also, the picks given to the redskins for KC's services won't be going to help the offense that KC goes to. That's a lot of talent and monetary drain that KC ought to think twice about when he isn't tagged exclusively.

 

[Sharkinva]

If the redskins non-exclusive franchise tag KC, then they aren't saying "they don't want him" Sharkinva. They're saying, "you cost too much, and you aren't worth what you think you are." The non-exclusive franchise tag is the only way NFL teams have to protect themselves either via draft picks or contract. There is no "transition tag - i.e. 1st and 3rd round picks" any more.

If the redskins tag KC non-exclusively, they should make it be known to all the teams that it'll cost them 2 first rounders - no more, no less - as is their right. If the Niners want to pay KC all that money AND fork over 2 number ones, so be it.

KC has most of the leverage, but he doesn't have all of it. The niners are terrible. The browns are terrible. The Jets are terrible. The bears are terrible. The teams that need a qb have little to no weapons. The redskins have a lot of weapons, even if BOTH Garcon AND Jackson aren't resigned. The redskins ALSO have a fantastic oline. They have some semblance of a running game, an excellent 3rd down back, and stud TE, and a very good backup te.

Also, the picks given to the redskins for KC's services won't be going to help the offense that KC goes to. That's a lot of talent and monetary drain that KC ought to think twice about when he isn't tagged exclusively.

You mean like we did with Champ Bailey?? If IM in Kirks position and they give me the non exclusive tag, I come back with this.... IM going where I want, or I will simply sign the tag and we can do this dance again next year.

And you are incorrect, Kirk has all the leverage. Because if the Skins try and trade his rights to a shit show like the Browns, all he need do is sign the tag offer, and refuse to show up for the new team for seven days. Trade reascended and the Skins have two options... play him at the tag price, or release him and STILL pay him.

 

[Stymietee]

Do please tell me the flaw?? Is it desperation of the other team?? Again I ask, would YOU give up two first rounders for a guy that you have labeled as above average, unable to win the big game and you suspect the other team doesnt really want to keep?? .

I highlighted the flaw in (bold black), If I had him, and I labeled him as above average, there would be no need for me to give up anything for him.

Another flaw (in red underlined) If I were the other team now and actually valued the player that another team has (and I'll give you this) even suspected that they didn't really want to keep him. There is only one way for me to actually get him and that is to go through the process i.e. negotiate a contract with him because he's on the non exclusive tag then meet the going price for him or fail to get the guy that I (meaning the team that DOES value him) want. Washington does have some say in what they will accept, and that's providing they don't FT him again or use the exclusive tag.

 

[Sharkinva]

I highlighted the flaw in (bold black), If I had him, and I labeled him as above average, there would be no need for me to give up anything for him.

Another flaw (in red underlined) If I were the other team now and actually valued the player that another team has (and I'll give you this) even suspected that they didn't really want to keep him. There is only one way for me to actually get him and that is to go through the process i.e. negotiate a contract with him because he's on the non exclusive tag then meet the going price for him or fail to get the guy that I (meaning the team that DOES value him) want. Washington does have some say in what they will accept, and that's providing they don't FT him again or use the exclusive tag.

Again... have you guys just conveniently forgotten how we got fucked on the Bailey trade??

Or simply put, when was the last time a team gave up two first rounders to sign a player who was given the non-exclusive tag?? Everyone was all excited that we would get two first rounders for Champ Bailey... then the actual compensation was released and every one was like... wait.. what just happened.


Look.. we dont want Kirk, at least not at what he will cost. If we give him the non exclusive tag, thats exactly what we are saying. No one else is going to give him an offer sheet without agreeing to a draft pick compensation before hand. And considering the level of respect he gets from his own team and fanbase, I dont see another team.. even the Niners saying... oh yes, lets give up the #2 pick in this draft AND a first rounder in 2018, AND $24M a year or more..... just to do Redskins nation a solid.

We dont do the fleecing, we are the sheep remember.

 

[redskin4209]

Shark you are at it again. LOL There are rumors of the niner's may make a run for KC, now that's what my 2 first rounders were about. There are some teams who have a higher trade value for KC while other's don't. I would call your bluff shark and move on

 

[redskin4209]

Let ask you a question shark how much would you give KC 20 22 24 million

 

[Stymietee]

Again... have you guys just conveniently forgotten how we got fucked on the Bailey trade??

Or simply put, when was the last time a team gave up two first rounders to sign a player who was given the non-exclusive tag?? Everyone was all excited that we would get two first rounders for Champ Bailey... then the actual compensation was released and every one was like... wait.. what just happened.


Look.. we dont want Kirk, at least not at what he will cost. If we give him the non exclusive tag, thats exactly what we are saying. No one else is going to give him an offer sheet without agreeing to a draft pick compensation before hand. And considering the level of respect he gets from his own team and fanbase, I dont see another team.. even the Niners saying... oh yes, lets give up the #2 pick in this draft AND a first rounder in 2018, AND $24M a year or more..... just to do Redskins nation a solid.

We dont do the fleecing, we are the sheep remember.

I'll take your last line as summation for everything else that you wrote prior to it. So with that in mind let me do to you what you and a couple of others attempt to do to others....When I hear someone from this organization say publicly, are being reported to have said or is confirmed as agree to a deal like the Champ Bailey deal then I'll formally give you the two extended arms "I'm not worthy" salute. Until then you are just taking worse case scenario, because IMHO you trust in the organization is somewhere in a sub-zero fridge.

BTW: you know that if they do let Cousins go, you're currently setting yourself up to become the new Ehb5, Breed and Sty of RG3 renown.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'll take your last line as summation for everything else that you wrote prior to it. So with that in mind let me do to you what you and a couple of others attempt to do to others....When I hear someone from this organization say publicly, are being reported to have said or is confirmed as agree to a deal like the Champ Bailey deal then I'll formally give you the two extended arms "I'm not worthy" salute. Until then you are just taking worse case scenario, because IMHO you trust in the organization is somewhere in a sub-zero fridge.

BTW: you know that if they do let Cousins go, you're currently setting yourself up to become the new Ehb5, Breed and Sty of RG3 renown.

I actually give it about a 75% chance we do deal Cousins. But I also dont think we will get two first rounders for him because simply put, teams dont do that these days.

As for the aftermath, I dont see us getting the current black Jesus of desire without giving up more than we did for the last messiah. Unless of course we totally suck this year and EARN the #1 pick outright.


Like I said, its almost like a portion of this fanbase cant stand the idea of NOT being in the hunt for a QB.

 

[Stymietee]

I actually give it about a 75% chance we do deal Cousins. But I also dont think we will get two first rounders for him because simply put, teams dont do that these days.

As for the aftermath, I dont see us getting the current black Jesus of desire without giving up more than we did for the last messiah. Unless of course we totally suck this year and EARN the #1 pick outright.


Like I said, its almost like a portion of this fanbase cant stand the idea of NOT being in the hunt for a QB.

Funny, how time changes things...I've got it at about 98% that they do a deal with Kirk.

No?? right, right riight, (reference to your aftermath statement) it won't be the black Jesus that they are getting, just holding on to the one that we have

Like I've said time after time after time, in this league, smart teams are ALWAYS in the hunt for a QB. Maybe ours could become one of them???

 

[Sharkinva]

Funny, how time changes things...I've got it at about 98% that they do a deal with Kirk.

No?? right, right riight, (reference to your aftermath statement) it won't be the black Jesus that they are getting, just holding on to the one that we have

Like I've said time after time after time, in this league, smart teams are ALWAYS in the hunt for a QB. Maybe ours could become one of them???

Of the teams still in the playoffs, Which one have even THOUGHT about bringing in a QB to compete with their starter??

Shit the Giants were almost ready to bail on Eli in the last year of his rookie contract... How did that turn out?? Atlanta was questioning if Ryan would ever get to the point where he wasnt a flop in the big game QB... again how did that work out.

Now I will give you Rogers... but he sat the bench behind a hall of famer for four years.

Romo... rode the pine for four years.

More often than not teams get LUCKY or really really suck at the right time to find that guy.

 

[Stymietee]

Of the teams still in the playoffs, Which one have even THOUGHT about bringing in a QB to compete with their starter??

Shit the Giants were almost ready to bail on Eli in the last year of his rookie contract... How did that turn out?? Atlanta was questioning if Ryan would ever get to the point where he wasnt a flop in the big game QB... again how did that work out.

Now I will give you Rogers... but he sat the bench behind a hall of famer for four years.

Romo... rode the pine for four years.

More often than not teams get LUCKY or really really suck at the right time to find that guy.

I stand by my statement, whether they ^^^^ do so or not ONLY makes them smart if they do. Group think or normal by majority does not always translate into smart in the NFL. Thus far I can only definitively point to one example of this that I know of and that's the Patriots, who not only have a hall of famer starting but now also have his backup who also has commanded some attention from other teams. If he is what they believe him to be, there will be no price good enough for Brady's replacement. Now before you or anyone else try this shit, let me say it as sarcastically as possible...that guy behind Brady aint shit, the only reason that he performed as well as he did was because of blah, blah and farkin' blah.

 

[Breed]

@Sharkinva

That's interesting, Why is it than that everything I'ved seen relating to Luck's contract. Says he has 87 mill guaranteed like there's no injury clause attached to it? That's some bullshit right there.

 

[Sharkinva]

@Sharkinva

That's interesting, Why is it than that everything I'ved seen relating to Luck's contract. Says he has 87 mill guaranteed like there's no injury clause attached to it? That's some bullshit right there.

For the same reason you herd things like HAynesworth made richest player in the league when we signed him. Agents report these numbers and they stress the biggest number they can. How else to you think they get NEW clients.

 

[ehb5]

Its comments like these that have me hoping Cousins does get out of DC. As i have said, this fanbase wont be happy with an Alex Smith type. And I know people say Cousins wants to get paid like an elite. But Im sorry if you look around I have shown where Jay Cutler got a contract very similar to Andrew Luck... three years ago. So the $125M range is no longer ELITE money.

Like I been hinting at, I dont think this owner, or the fans are going to settle for anything less than an Aron Rogers type and would rather flounder a few more years while we chase after it than "settle" for a good QB that isnt considered elite.

Did you watch the Chiefs Steelers game? We'd better want somebody better than Alex Smith. Hes been a perfect example of why Ive had so much push back on commiting to mediocre QB play. Now I do think Kirk is a lot better than him actually but just saying I think this is our difference in team building philosophy. Some of you are ok with any QB whos somewhat competent. I want a QB who actively helps us win. So I think thats why Ive always been more hesitant with Kirk - because I dont want to resign somebody if theyre only as good as Alex Smith so Ive been holding him to higher standard.

As to your last point - theres a huuuuuuuuuuge gap between Rodgers and Smith for us to find a QB in (Kirk).

 

[ehb5]

Well shark we just disagree that's all. When we needed KC in big games he failed. It's that simple and that's what make me uncomfortable with him. You have it or you don't have it. I just believe he's over hype until he can show me he can win the big games. Now if we sign him I do understand we will have some money left over to sign some other players. On the other hand if we can get 2 number one's for Cousins I'm making the move. See ya KC and wish you luck some were else.

I think this is an unfair criticism. Hes shown up at the end of games before and either way I think thats just one of those things thats random. Theres no having it or not.