Cousins Doesn't Deserve A Longterm Contract

[ehb5]

Huh? You don't need a better replacement? ehb5, you are an intelligent poster, but this makes no sense whatsoever. How is this team improved if we trot out a worse QB but we save $10M/year?

It's probably not. Again purely hypothetical here but in this world where we have decided kirk isn't good enough - we are in a shitty situation. We can't stand pat and at the same time moving forward for the hopes of something better may well make us worse off than we are now. But if that's the only route to the top you gotta do what you gotta do. This downside risk is a large part of everybody wanting to keep kirk. Nobody wants to go back to that crap of having to find the guy. We want to have the guy. But if we don't have him, we can't pay somebody to be the guy when he's not.

Hopefully I explained myself there and again - I'm not saying Kirk isnt the guy. I'm just pointing out that all that matters is wether or not he is.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Or its a plan that gives us a chance to get a QB who is good enough rather than accepting one that is not good enough (again - this is all given a hypothetical world where we have decided kirk is not good enough). I think it's pretty impossible to criticize a plan that is the only alternative to "not good enough" but maybe that's just me.

As for wether kirk is good enough, what do you define a s middle of the road? And where do you see kirk in the qb heirarchy?

I'll give it a shot. Right now Kirk is an unknown. Until he starts winning playoff games you can't really say he is good enough, this is true. But again he is only in his 2nd year and he got to the playoffs and was a game away in those 2 years. So to answer your question I see him as a top 10-12 QB right now with the potential to go higher. He is not good enough right now but again we only have 2 years as a sample size.

As for the contract what people are forgetting is this enormous deal that will flip people out will look like a bargain in 4 years as the cap rises and with it so will the price fore a good starting QB.

 

[j_y19]

It's probably not. Again purely hypothetical here but in this world where we have decided kirk isn't good enough - we are in a shitty situation. We can't stand pat and at the same time moving forward for the hopes of something better may well make us worse off than we are now. But if that's the only route to the top you gotta do what you gotta do. This downside risk is a large part of everybody wanting to keep kirk. Nobody wants to go back to that crap of having to find the guy. We want to have the guy. But if we don't have him, we can't pay somebody to be the guy when he's not.

Hopefully I explained myself there and again - I'm not saying Kirk isnt the guy. I'm just pointing out that all that matters is wether or not he is.

No, I better understand your point. But this isn't a decision that can be made in a vacuum. What your other options are DO have an impact on the decision. They have to. Because at the end of the day, first, do no harm. As I stated in another post, chasing the elusive "elite" QB is fools gold. Teams, including us, have spend decades and countless precious resources on the next big QB only to fail. Everyone's definition is going t be different as to "good enough". Mine is can the guy lead our offense and successfully win a SB. The answer is not clear yet. But here is what we know. KC has now started 2+ seasons. He can make all of the throws and is very accurate. He is smart. He works hard and is dedicated. He recognizes he needs to be better (this is big). He gets rid of the ball quickly. He has overcome glaring issues when he first started to where he is now mostly through hard work (much on his own). Bad plays don't seem to lead to more bad plays like they did 30+ games ago. He still has question marks. He still shows signs of panic in pressure situations (although, not nearly as much as he used to 30 games ago). He has not been nearly effective enough in the RZ. He, in my opinion, hasn't established himself as the on the field leader.

So, again in my opinion, we have a guy that has the physical and mental capabilities to be a very good qb, but still needs to work on issues. But I think everyone has to admit that he has come miles in 30 games. So why isn't it reasonable to expect that he can continue to improve? And if there was a better support from a running game and from a defense, would that not also help to alleviate KC so almost every game isn't won or lost on a final drive.

I'll throw at two names of guys and expect to get shit on, but I see KC in line with these guys at the same point in their careers. Tony Romo and Drew Brees. Both had/have issues in making bone headed plays to lose games early on (Romo has been plagued by that his entire career). Drew got run out of his first job and fell into NO's lap originally as a stop gap. He wasn't considered, by any means, a franchise QB. In Drew's first 30 games, he threw 29 TDs and 31 INTs. And that trend continued through his career at SD. SO what did SD do? They spent shit load finding his replacement. He left, went to NO became a star. What has SD done really since he left? Really, not much. They spent so much on the QB position that they underinvested in other parts of the team. So Rivers, as good as some say he is, needed support around him and never has had it.

Could we be the next SD? Very real possibility. Or could we be the next Baltimore Ravens? Good QB, great supporting staff. SB winners and a very good team for quite a while.

 

[ehb5]

I'll give it a shot. Right now Kirk is an unknown. Until he starts winning playoff games you can't really say he is good enough, this is true. But again he is only in his 2nd year and he got to the playoffs and was a game away in those 2 years. So to answer your question I see him as a top 10-12 QB right now with the potential to go higher. He is not good enough right now but again we only have 2 years as a sample size.

As for the contract what people are forgetting is this enormous deal that will flip people out will look like a bargain in 4 years as the cap rises and with it so will the price fore a good starting QB.

You're right we don't really know. It's not as simple as a hypothetical where we know he's not good enough or know he is good enough. So I do think it's tough to say we should let him walk. I don't really expect him to improve much. He could but at 29 with 41 career starts I think it's a lot more likely he is what he is. It's a tough situation imo. Ive always maintained that if hes on a reasonable contact preferably with some outs that we should keep him and never feel tied down to him. But I'm not in the negotiating room so I don't know where talks are at or what it would take to bring him back.

 

[ehb5]

No, I better understand your point. But this isn't a decision that can be made in a vacuum. What your other options are DO have an impact on the decision. They have to. Because at the end of the day, first, do no harm. As I stated in another post, chasing the elusive "elite" QB is fools gold. Teams, including us, have spend decades and countless precious resources on the next big QB only to fail. Everyone's definition is going t be different as to "good enough". Mine is can the guy lead our offense and successfully win a SB. The answer is not clear yet. But here is what we know. KC has now started 2+ seasons. He can make all of the throws and is very accurate. He is smart. He works hard and is dedicated. He recognizes he needs to be better (this is big). He gets rid of the ball quickly. He has overcome glaring issues when he first started to where he is now mostly through hard work (much on his own). Bad plays don't seem to lead to more bad plays like they did 30+ games ago. He still has question marks. He still shows signs of panic in pressure situations (although, not nearly as much as he used to 30 games ago). He has not been nearly effective enough in the RZ. He, in my opinion, hasn't established himself as the on the field leader.

So, again in my opinion, we have a guy that has the physical and mental capabilities to be a very good qb, but still needs to work on issues. But I think everyone has to admit that he has come miles in 30 games. So why isn't it reasonable to expect that he can continue to improve? And if there was a better support from a running game and from a defense, would that not also help to alleviate KC so almost every game isn't won or lost on a final drive.

I'll throw at two names of guys and expect to get shit on, but I see KC in line with these guys at the same point in their careers. Tony Romo and Drew Brees. Both had/have issues in making bone headed plays to lose games early on (Romo has been plagued by that his entire career). Drew got run out of his first job and fell into NO's lap originally as a stop gap. He wasn't considered, by any means, a franchise QB. In Drew's first 30 games, he threw 29 TDs and 31 INTs. And that trend continued through his career at SD. SO what did SD do? They spent shit load finding his replacement. He left, went to NO became a star. What has SD done really since he left? Really, not much. They spent so much on the QB position that they underinvested in other parts of the team. So Rivers, as good as some say he is, needed support around him and never has had it.

Could we be the next SD? Very real possibility. Or could we be the next Baltimore Ravens? Good QB, great supporting staff. SB winners and a very good team for quite a while.

I mean you're making good points and I absolutely don't deny that there's a good argument to be made for keeping him. In my hypothetical I was saying we knew he wasn't good enough. But in reality I dont think we can say that. At least I don't feel comfortable saying it which is why I've been very noncommittal on what to do with Kirk since the game yesterday.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

all experts say kirk should be signed the only people saying dont sign kirk is the people that are so worried about spending money lalalala damn dudes is this going to be topic all year long THERE IS ONLY 4 MUTHA FUCKING OPTION 1.SIGN KIRK 2 DRAFT WATSON OR A QB IN FIRST OR 2nd round .3 pick up 6 qbs in free agencie and let them battle for a starter . 4 colt mcoy.. its a clear choice pay kirk jeeeeez

 

[countryroads316]

I still believe Kirk Cousins will take a nose dive off a cliff next season I believe we will lose Jackson and maybe even Garcon and who the hell knows about Doctson he is a bust at the moment

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

here is what we do blow up the fucking defense fire sale resign kirk resign baker and garcon any barry news today i can not fined shit

 

[skinsdad62]

You're not understanding me. For one I never said kirk was or wasn't good enough. But lets say hypothetically we agreed he wasn't - why does it matter who replaces him? I don't want one of hoyer romo or sudfeld but if it was decided kirk wasn't good enough then taking one of those guys for less till we find our guy is what you have to do.

because you are creating a hole that isnt there . a resource that can be used for defense is now going to be reinvested to a position where we have a good qb . geez the guy is entering year 3 as a starter . he will improve even more . hence i need a name taylor cutler romo , hoyer shaun hill mccoy luke mccown , someone that lets me believe we save money and get equal or better production .

even if we draft well on defense we make middle of the pack at best so i9s that enough to take less qb play ?

 

[ehb5]

because you are creating a hole that isnt there . a resource that can be used for defense is now going to be reinvested to a position where we have a good qb . geez the guy is entering year 3 as a starter . he will improve even more . hence i need a name taylor cutler romo , hoyer shaun hill mccoy luke mccown , someone that lets me believe we save money and get equal or better production .

even if we draft well on defense we make middle of the pack at best so i9s that enough to take less qb play ?

If Kirk isnt the guy then it's not about next year. That hole would be an unfortunate necessity. And you would also save resources by not paying him that could then be used on defense.

I'm not sure how you can be so certain a 29 year old with 41 starts is guaranteed to improve either.

Some of my other posts in this thread may do a better job explaining my point - particularly my original response to j_y.

 

[GNG]

Skins fans were singing Cousins praises last year. What a difference a year makes.

 

[Stymietee]

Let's take a lo

I still believe Kirk Cousins will take a nose dive off a cliff next season I believe we will lose Jackson and maybe even Garcon and who the hell knows about Doctson he is a bust at the moment

Is it because of the loss of Jackson possibly Garcon that you believe that Kirk falls off of the proverbial cliff or some other reason. C'mon man share!

 

[countryroads316]

Let's take a lo


Is it because of the loss of Jackson possibly Garcon that you believe that Kirk falls off of the proverbial cliff or some other reason. C'mon man share!

on top of that Davis was only on a 1 year contract Reed can't stay healthy we could be losing a lot and Cousins is not the type of player that makes everyone around him better he has to have good players that make him look good

 

[Sharkinva]

Skins fans were singing Cousins praises last year. What a difference a year makes.

There have always been a few who were just a little to invested in the previous QB that have been basically been waiting for Kirk to implode. Short of winning a Lombardi, Kirk will never be good enough for some. Sadly this might actually include the team owner. While many wont admit it, Kirk just isnt sexy enough when it all comes down to it.

 

[ehb5]

There have always been a few who were just a little to invested in the previous QB that have been basically been waiting for Kirk to implode. Short of winning a Lombardi, Kirk will never be good enough for some. Sadly this might actually include the team owner. While many wont admit it, Kirk just isnt sexy enough when it all comes down to it.

 

[Sharkinva]

Strike a nerve did I??

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Skins fans were singing Cousins praises last year. What a difference a year makes.

Yeah you may want to try that again. One poster here is saying he is a bum, one says we don't know and the rest say it's a no-brainer to sign him because he's pretty damn good.

 

[ehb5]

Strike a nerve did I??

Sure, bud.

 

[Sharkinva]

Sure, bud.

So just to make sure I got this right.... do you honestly think we should consider not resigning the first QB to even remotely get past 4000 yards passing in back to back years for this team in want 15 or more years?? See here is the thing, yes I do think some in the fanbase will never be OK with Cousins unless he becomes elite and IS the reason we win a Lombardi. And yes there are some that still hold a grudge over the previous QB.

Having said that, IM sticking to my guns and think we should move on because until we get a QB that both the front office and the fanbase finds acceptable, this team is likely never to move forward.

 

[ehb5]

So just to make sure I got this right.... do you honestly think we should consider not resigning the first QB to even remotely get past 4000 yards passing in back to back years for this team in want 15 or more years?? See here is the thing, yes I do think some in the fanbase will never be OK with Cousins unless he becomes elite and IS the reason we win a Lombardi. And yes there are some that still hold a grudge over the previous QB.

Having said that, IM sticking to my guns and think we should move on because until we get a QB that both the front office and the fanbase finds acceptable, this team is likely never to move forward.

And I think youre the only person on this board who gives a damn what happened when he who shall not be named was here. Everybody else has moved on. Everybody else is capable of both criticizing and praising our current QB. Everyone else attempts to be rational and debate topics using logical arguments rather than conspiracy theories.

Now if you'll excuse me Ive got a Rose Bowl to go watch.