Cody Franson on the block?

[MisterHyd3]

Saw this this morning, and am wondering what it'd take to bring this kid to Philadelphia if he does indeed end up on the block?

First: Is he worth the reported $3.2-$4 million per he's currently seeking? I don't think I'd go to $4, but given his stellar production last season (29 points in 44 games) and given that he'll only turn 26 this year, I'd move on him at $3-$3.2.

Second: Are draft picks enough? If Nonis wanted say, a 2nd rounder for him, I'd do that deal, but would Nonis? Given that he's still got Kadri (and Fraser, who has opted for arbitration) to sign and just around $6 million to to spend on all 3 players, the guy is obviously in a tough spot. If Franson's demands truly are around the $3-$4 million per year range, that may force Nonis' hand.

At this point, I'd trade some package of picks (without a first) or maybe a Matt Read for him. He's got defensive upside, and obviously has a ton of offensive upside given that he supposedly put up most of those 29 points (4 goals, 25 assists last season) as part of the 5-6 pairing! (Leafs fans, feel free to correct me if that's not accurate.)

Link: NHL rumors: Cody Franson might be put on trading block by Leafs - CBSSports.com

I personally believe that this kid would be a steal given his age and upside, especially for a Read or a package of picks. We have an obvious need defensively and Read is expendable given our depth on offense. Given that he's only making $900k, he's an affordable option for the leafs, who would then still have roughly $6 million with which to resign Kadri and Fraser.

We'd obviously still have to move Coburn/Meszaros, but if we signed Franson to a deal in the $3.2-$3.5/yr range, I personally think he'd be an upgrade over either of those guys anyway.

Thoughts?

 

[awaz]

I'm not a real big franson fan. I definitely wouldn't trade read for him, but for a 2nd rounder I would consider it.

I just don't think he's all that much of an improvement over gus, certainly an improvement, but not by 'a matt read'. Aside from moving Mesz to get under the cap, I really want to see the team, as is, before making any more deals. I really think the defense is very solid right now.

 

[flyersfan4706]

If he hadn't signed Streit then I would be all over this.

 

[raptorlife4]

Where is the money coming from?
We need to shed right now

 

[MisterHyd3]

Where is the money coming from?
We need to shed right now

Agreed. I'm assuming we'd shed prior to making the move. There are a lot of "what ifs" there, I admit. Just speculating.

 

[DevilishWon]

Where is the money coming from?
We need to shed right now

Buying out Giroux

 

[raptorlife4]

Agreed. I'm assuming we'd shed prior to making the move. There are a lot of "what ifs" there, I admit. Just speculating.

Id love Franson I wanted the Flyers to grab him when he was a healthy scratch for while 2 years ago. I just dont see him coming as the Leafs will want more then a second and we have a log jam right now on the backend.

Maybe Franson for Mez? Think Nonis would do it?
I know he would do Coburn in a heartbeat

 

[wbon22]

I'm with Awaz on this one...I want to see some $$ shed (either Mez or Coburn) and then see this team as constructed open the season and play some meaningful hockey.

 

[chy1127]

Our depth on D,unfortunately, is at the 3rd line paring. Arguably we dont have a true #1 as Kimmo is a year or 2 removed from that status. Coburn had the potential top be a top 2 but played with his head up his ass the whole season. Hopefully it was injury related and not a talent issue. Other than Grossman, Schenn and maybe Streit, the others, Mess, Guss, MAB, Laurison and maybe Manning are all suited better for 5/6 minutes. Coburn needs to step it up this year or we are in deep trouble. At this point I think Mess would be the best to move. I would think we would have to include a pick or player such as Read for someone to take on his salery.

 

[awaz]

Our depth on D,unfortunately, is at the 3rd line paring. Arguably we dont have a true #1 as Kimmo is a year or 2 removed from that status. Coburn had the potential top be a top 2 but played with his head up his ass the whole season. Hopefully it was injury related and not a talent issue. Other than Grossman, Schenn and maybe Streit, the others, Mess, Guss, MAB, Laurison and maybe Manning are all suited better for 5/6 minutes. Coburn needs to step it up this year or we are in deep trouble. At this point I think Mess would be the best to move. I would think we would have to include a pick or player such as Read for someone to take on his salery.

i actually disagree w/ this slightly.. i think timonen is a bonafide #1 right now.. he was like 3rd or 4th for points from a d-man last year and obviously is a warrior defensively.. i dont think they'll get more than a year, MAYBE 2, more from him, but for this coming season, i do think he's a legit #1.

i still think under a different style, the flyers defense could be near the top of the league. they needed more forward support to bring the puck out because outside of timonen, they weren't able to complete a pass longer than about 7 feet. teams exposed that and the flyers struggled to adjust.

they also struggled big time with injuries last year. IIRC, timonen, coburn, grossmann, mesz, and gus all missed a number of games last year

 

[chy1127]

i actually disagree w/ this slightly.. i think timonen is a bonafide #1 right now.. he was like 3rd or 4th for points from a d-man last year and obviously is a warrior defensively.. i dont think they'll get more than a year, MAYBE 2, more from him, but for this coming season, i do think he's a legit #1.

i still think under a different style, the flyers defense could be near the top of the league. they needed more forward support to bring the puck out because outside of timonen, they weren't able to complete a pass longer than about 7 feet. teams exposed that and the flyers struggled to adjust.

they also struggled big time with injuries last year. IIRC, timonen, coburn, grossmann, mesz, and gus all missed a number of games last year

Kimmo has been my favorite player for a long time. I think they have been playing him too many minutes which has affected his game. If they could keep the minutes down he can still be a top tiered defenseman. I just dont think that its at # 1 level anymore.

 

[JBM73]

i actually disagree w/ this slightly.. i think timonen is a bonafide #1 right now.. he was like 3rd or 4th for points from a d-man last year and obviously is a warrior defensively.. i dont think they'll get more than a year, MAYBE 2, more from him, but for this coming season, i do think he's a legit #1.

I think how you rate Timonen depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you want to make the playoffs, Timonen can be your #1. If you want to win the Cup, I'd argue he's probably a 2 and dropping.

Cup winners best D at the time vs Timonen:

2007 Niedermayer > Timonen
2008 Lidstrom > Timonen
2009 Gonchar = Timonen
2010 Keith > Timonen
2011 Chara > Timonen
2012 Doughty > Timonen
2013 Keith > Timonen

In my book, the Timonen of today goes 0-6-1 vs. the best D-man on each Cup winner since 2007. 2012 was close, but Doughty was an absolute monster in the playoffs after a so-so regular season.

 

[awaz]

Kimmo has been my favorite player for a long time. I think they have been playing him too many minutes which has affected his game. If they could keep the minutes down he can still be a top tiered defenseman. I just dont think that its at # 1 level anymore.

couldn't agree more with you on that one.. i think one of the big problems there is they try to use him for 75%+ powerplay time because they didn't have anyone else last year, and then they probably use him 60-70% of the PK minutes too.. for the past few years he's just been the flyers best dman in every aspect of being dman except hitting (which isn't completely necessary)

I think how you rate Timonen depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you want to make the playoffs, Timonen can be your #1. If you want to win the Cup, I'd argue he's probably a 2 and dropping.

Cup winners best D at the time vs Timonen:

2007 Niedermayer > Timonen
2008 Lidstrom > Timonen
2009 Gonchar = Timonen
2010 Keith > Timonen
2011 Chara > Timonen
2012 Doughty > Timonen
2013 Keith > Timonen

In my book, the Timonen of today goes 0-6-1 vs. the best D-man on each Cup winner since 2007. 2012 was close, but Doughty was an absolute monster in the playoffs after a so-so regular season.

i'll give you that.. the only one that's even arguable is probably keith in 2010, but even that would be a reach.. i just don't think the #1 dman slot is what has been killing the flyers the past couple years.. the problem has been at the #2 and #3 slot IMO.. they haven't gotten consistent play to take any of the burden off of timonen.. he has do everything every night.. if you have a #2 or #3 that you can rely on a little more, it makes the #1's job easier.

and also, the flyers were significantly worse than all 7 of those teams too, even in 2010 when they went to the cup, the hawks were heavily favored. i dont think the flyers win the cup any of those years if you switch timonen with any of those guys (or have them in addition to timonen some years)

 

[JBM73]

i'll give you that.. the only one that's even arguable is probably keith in 2010, but even that would be a reach.. i just don't think the #1 dman slot is what has been killing the flyers the past couple years.. the problem has been at the #2 and #3 slot IMO.. they haven't gotten consistent play to take any of the burden off of timonen.. he has do everything every night.. if you have a #2 or #3 that you can rely on a little more, it makes the #1's job easier.

and also, the flyers were significantly worse than all 7 of those teams too, even in 2010 when they went to the cup, the hawks were heavily favored. i dont think the flyers win the cup any of those years if you switch timonen with any of those guys (or have them in addition to timonen some years)

Agreed that the Flyers problems currently run deeper than just the lack of a #1 d-man.

In 2010 the problem was the lack of an NHL 3rd pairing on D. The top 4 guys were playing way too much and wore down later in the series. With a solid 3rd pairing playing 15 minutes a game, they could very well have won the series.

 

[JBM73]

Back to the original post, as to whether or not Franson might be avaialble:

HockeyBuzz.com - Mike Augello - Fraser Salary Fight Key To Retaining Franson

 

[lasgop8]

I would just like to say IMO our D will be much better this year without Bryz in net. With a better puck moving goalie like Mason and Emery we will be out of our own end a lot faster and wont get caught scrambling around like we did so much the last 2 years. Bryz puckhandling skills usually ended up in turn overs or he didnt stop the rap around at all or covered the puck forcing a face off in our end. There is no doubt our GAA will go down this season making our d look much better.

 

[banditshcky11]

I'd love to see the Flyers pick up Franson. The Leafs aren't exactly in a great position with cap space right now either. I could see us being able to get a quality return for Coburn(I'd still call the Oilers and ask for Nurse and a pick) and we have some prospect depth now which gives us some options on what type of package we could offer. I can guarantee a 2nd rounder won't get it done, I think Read for Franson and a 3rd would be reasonable. That would also give Laughton, McGinn and Raffl a better chance to push for a position. The question really is would we be in a much better position with Franson then we would be in with Coburn, especially if we have to give anyone else up.

 

[raptorlife4]

The guy we want from the Leafs is Frasor. He led them in +- last season and is a beast

 

[awaz]

I'd love to see the Flyers pick up Franson. The Leafs aren't exactly in a great position with cap space right now either. I could see us being able to get a quality return for Coburn(I'd still call the Oilers and ask for Nurse and a pick) and we have some prospect depth now which gives us some options on what type of package we could offer. I can guarantee a 2nd rounder won't get it done, I think Read for Franson and a 3rd would be reasonable. That would also give Laughton, McGinn and Raffl a better chance to push for a position. The question really is would we be in a much better position with Franson then we would be in with Coburn, especially if we have to give anyone else up.

i really don't like the idea of trading read.. but if they can get franson AND a 3rd.. i would think about it

i dont think trading coburn is a good idea.. if you can get nurse and a pick then i'd think about it (even though i dont particularly like nurse).. but i worry about trade a proven dman like coburn, even if it is a proven 3/4 type guy, for an unknown commodity.. nurse could turn out to be weber, but he could also turn out to be an NHL/AHL swingman.. i like the flyers defense as is, but i dont think it can afford making a move like that.. especially if/when mesz gets hurt

 

[chy1127]

I would just like to say IMO our D will be much better this year without Bryz in net. With a better puck moving goalie like Mason and Emery we will be out of our own end a lot faster and wont get caught scrambling around like we did so much the last 2 years. Bryz puckhandling skills usually ended up in turn overs or he didnt stop the rap around at all or covered the puck forcing a face off in our end. There is no doubt our GAA will go down this season making our d look much better.

Agreed on this one. I think the D never knew what Bryz was going to do with the puck. Mason and Emery are much better than Bryz. I remember it was the Devels and I think it was Clarkson when Bryz shot it right into him and the puck was in the net before he could move. Bone headed play of the year.