Coaches of All-Time

[MHSL82]

I hadn't seen a thread for this yet, but there might be one. I may or may not add more links, depends on the mood. Merge if needed.

Roots of NFL coaching trees run deep - ESPN

Talks mostly about John, but mentions Jim, too.

 

[threelittleturds]

Reilly: My top 20 NFL coaches - ESPN

Looks like Reilly is up to his old bag of tricks to draw attention to his articles. Say something to deliberately piss off a fan base in order to draw a lot of action on the comments section of his story.

I didn't expect anyone to put Walsh above Lombardi, but to drop him that low and to basically say Montana made Walsh is obviously just meant to piss people off and generate a lot of angry comments. Especially when the Championships aren't even the biggest piece of his coaching legacy.

This, is what elevates Walsh. What makes a great coach? Winning, teaching, and passing on a successful plan? I don't know anything that represents Bill Walsh better than the fact that his coaching tree is enormous.

 

[-AC-]

I'm with you TLB...

He says Bill Walsh's success was because of Joe Montana, then says this- "And I say, "How do you know Tom Brady would be Tom Brady anywhere else? He wasn't Tom Brady in college, was he?"

If you look at Montana and Brady's stats in college, you be the judge-

Statistics Archives - MGOBLUE.COM - University of Michigan Official Athletic Site
Joe Montana - Notre Dame College Stats

Reily is a joke, with no real substance. Normally his act doesn't bother me, but in this case he stepped all over his own article and list...

 

[TobyTyler]

I'm with you TLB...

He says Bill Walsh's success was because of Joe Montana, then says this- "And I say, "How do you know Tom Brady would be Tom Brady anywhere else? He wasn't Tom Brady in college, was he?"

I think it was a little of both. They produced a synergy together matched only by that created by the Beatles.

 

[-AC-]

I just want to add that he never said anything about spygate or any other illegal activity that has put a black mark on Belichick career...

 

[threelittleturds]

I'm with you TLB...

He says Bill Walsh's success was because of Joe Montana, then says this- "And I say, "How do you know Tom Brady would be Tom Brady anywhere else? He wasn't Tom Brady in college, was he?"

If you look at Montana and Brady's stats in college, you be the judge-

Statistics Archives - MGOBLUE.COM - University of Michigan Official Athletic Site
Joe Montana - Notre Dame College Stats

Reily is a joke, with no real substance. Normally his act doesn't bother me, but in this case he stepped all over his own article and list...

Yep, I noticed that too. It is such a lame argument to discredit Walsh. Belichick hasn't won without Brady. Lombardi didn't win without Starr. He might have also been using that argument against Walsh to justify putting Gibbs at #2, didn't Gibbs win 3 with 3 different QBs?

I think he just targeted 49ers fans again because he noticed how much blowback he got from them over that Kaepernick article he wrote, about how Kaepernick was a jerk for not meeting the woman who put him up for adoption.

 

[Flyingiguana]

every great coach needs a great qb

 

[MHSL82]

Great coaches without great quarterbacks? - NFC West Blog

 

[threelittleturds]

Great coaches without great quarterbacks? - NFC West Blog

I might have agreed with that guy 5 years ago... but going from Singletary to Harbaugh really opened my eyes to how important coaching is in the NFL. Jim took pretty much the exact same team that Singletary had, and won with it. Through creative gameplans and playcalling, recognizing Alex Smith's strengths and weaknesses and playing to his strengths. Just like Singletary, Harbaugh and his staff went with Chilo because he has the size and strength to be a mauler... but when they realized he was a weakness they didn't hesitate to yank him and put Snyder in. Stuff like that is how coaches make a difference, and in the 49ers case it was the difference between another 6 or 7 win season and 13 wins.

How about this for the other side of the coin. Dan Marino. By all accounts a great QB, HOF QB, one of the best of his generation and all time. Yet, two coaches who won Super Bowls with other teams/rosters couldn't win with Marino. Shula and Jimmy Johnson won with other QBs, so if it was just great QBs that make great coaches... shouldn't they have just racked up the Lombardi's with Marino if it were as simple as a great QB?

 

[dredinis21]

Fuck Reilly. He's a hypocritical blowhard.

 

[MHSL82]

NFL Greatest Coaches -- Snubbed from the Top 20 - ESPN

 

[MHSL82]

David Shula, Norv Turner and the worst coaches in NFL history - ESPN

 

[NinerSickness]

Norv Turner doesn't even belong in this discussion.

 

[MHSL82]

They ranked the coaches, so I guess here's the roster. When I say they, it's just one guy on some website. So, just an opinion, not consensus.

Joe Montana, Jim Brown on Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Team - NFL.com

 

[MHSL82]

Only listing RB/WR here. Go to link for more.

Joe Montana, Jim Brown on Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Team

Quarterback

Joe Montana

When it comes to weighing the necessary qualifications for someone to be considered the greatest quarterback in NFL history, Montana gets a check mark in every box. Yes, his teams won often in the postseason, but it was how he played in those January affairs that made him special ... Super special. In four Super Bowls -- all wins -- Montana completed 68 percent of his passes and logged 11 touchdowns to zero interceptions. His passer rating was 100 or better in all of them. You can make the case that Montana is the best money player of all time. Montana was named to eight Pro Bowls and finished his career with a staggering record of 117-47.
Competition at quarterback: Johnny Unitas came to mind. All Otto Graham did was win, playing in 10 championship games in 10 years. Roger Staubach and John Elway might be the two most competitively great quarterbacks ever (both were hell on wheels when their teams were behind). Dan Marino could outplay anyone on his best day. And everyone forgets Sid Luckman. At the end of the day, intangibles push Montana over the top: overcoming a debilitating back injury in 1986 to lead San Francisco to the playoffs, then missing nearly two full seasons with an elbow injury only to resurface in the AFC and guide the Chiefs to the conference title game in 1993.
Toughest cut: Johnny Unitas.

Running Backs

Jim Brown

Brown is the best football player ever to lace 'em up. Fans get tired of hearing that, thinking Brown played too long ago. But when someone leads the NFL in rushing during eight of his nine years in the league, is named Rookie of the Year, nabs three NFL MVPs, earns a Pro Bowl nod every season, wins an NFL championship and is considered the top player in pro football in his last season ... well, folks, you have the greatest player in league history. His career average of 5.22 yards per carry is the highest among players with at least 1,000 carries. Brown is the only player to average more than 100 rushing yards per game for his career.
Walter Payton


When the discussion of "best all-around player" is raised, "Sweetness" comes up pretty quickly. Team leader, prolific running back, solid blocker, slick pass catcher, terror on the halfback option and durable as the day is long -- yeah, that's a good start in describing No. 34's game. Payton surpassed Brown as the league's all-time leading rusher in 1984, holding the title until Emmitt Smith passed him in 2002. Despite playing on some mediocre Bears clubs, Payton led the NFC in rushing every year from 1976 to 1980, before the days of Coach Ditka, McMahon and Singletary in Chicago. The seemingly indestructible Payton missed one game -- during his rookie season -- over a 13-year career, despite being one of the most physical runners ever. Incredible.
Competition at running back: Brown didn't have any; he is the greatest player ever. Payton, however, had some company here. Barry Sanders, like Brown, was elite throughout his entire NFL career. What held Sanders back were poor performances in the postseason, when he faced some of the league's best defenses. Eric Dickerson and Tony Dorsett were remarkable players. Ditto Earl Campbell. Emmitt Smith, as hard as it is to believe, probably doesn't get enough respect for being the game's all-time leading rusher. Though he was not as flashy as Sanders, Smith ramped his game up two notches against the best teams in the league -- more so than any back in history. Steve Van Buren, the premier player in the NFL in the late 1940s, has almost been completely forgotten by fans.
Toughest cuts: Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith.

Wide Receivers


Jerry Rice

Considered by many -- including NFL Network, back in 2010 -- to be the NFL's greatest player, Rice is a no-brainer for inclusion on this list. The all-time leader in receptions, receiving yards and touchdowns was so dominant that it's almost hard to wrap your brain around his numbers. Rice racked up over 2,200 yards and 22 touchdowns in January football. That's plain ridiculous. Rice earned three rings with the 49ers and played in another Super Bowl with the Raiders. This guy posted his last 1,000-yard campaign at age 40. Yes, 40. That's unreal -- a 40-year-old man getting that much separation from 20-something defensive backs.
Don Hutson

Don Hutson and Sammy Baugh went back and forth as the two best players in football from the mid-1930s to the mid-'40s. It was an odd, unique era of pro football. Many of the league's premium players served in World War II, and the invisible color line wasn't broken until 1946. (Black players did play in the 1920s and early '30s, before the game gained traction as a big business.) So in a league lacking its usual talent, Hutson literally dominated games. Dominated. In 1942, Hutson led the NFL with 74 catches. The next closest dude had 27. He averaged over 100 yards per game that season, in an era when most quarterbacks didn't even throw for 100 yards per game. Most importantly, even in the seasons that weren't marked by WWII absences (1935-1941, 1945), Hutson finished first, second or third in receiving in yards (and he was in third only once -- in his rookie season).
Competition at wide receiver: Rice's totals of 22,895 yards and 197 receiving touchdowns (as well as 10 rushing touchdowns, for good measure) made him an automatic selection. That said, Lance Alworth was probably the AFL's greatest player, and it was extremely painful to leave him off in favor of Hutson. In 1965, Alworth put up 1,602 yards in 14 games. As the first receiver to master the art of attacking the football at its highest point, "Bambi" was unstoppable. Raymond Berry is the greatest possession receiver in the Hall. Steve Largent merited strong consideration and, incidentally, broke Hutson's 44-year-old record for career touchdown receptions in 1989 (a mark that Rice, of course, blew past). James Lofton, an illustrious Packer like Hutson, was the league's top wideout when the passing game took off in the 1980s. There are so many great players at this position, including some of the older Hall of Famers like Tom Fears, Fred Biletnikoff and Paul Warfield.
Toughest cut: Lance Alworth (the toughest cut).

 

[darken65]

I hadn't seen a thread for this yet, but there might be one. I may or may not add more links, depends on the mood. Merge if needed.

Roots of NFL coaching trees run deep - ESPN

Talks mostly about John, but mentions Jim, too.

If it for the roots stemming from a HC ,Bill Walsh wins hands down. His coaching tree is epic. An argument can be made as to who was the best HC...Walsh is still in that mix.

 

[darken65]

Only listing RB/WR here. Go to link for more.

Joe Montana, Jim Brown on Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Team

Quarterback

Joe Montana

When it comes to weighing the necessary qualifications for someone to be considered the greatest quarterback in NFL history, Montana gets a check mark in every box. Yes, his teams won often in the postseason, but it was how he played in those January affairs that made him special ... Super special. In four Super Bowls -- all wins -- Montana completed 68 percent of his passes and logged 11 touchdowns to zero interceptions. His passer rating was 100 or better in all of them. You can make the case that Montana is the best money player of all time. Montana was named to eight Pro Bowls and finished his career with a staggering record of 117-47.
Competition at quarterback: Johnny Unitas came to mind. All Otto Graham did was win, playing in 10 championship games in 10 years. Roger Staubach and John Elway might be the two most competitively great quarterbacks ever (both were hell on wheels when their teams were behind). Dan Marino could outplay anyone on his best day. And everyone forgets Sid Luckman. At the end of the day, intangibles push Montana over the top: overcoming a debilitating back injury in 1986 to lead San Francisco to the playoffs, then missing nearly two full seasons with an elbow injury only to resurface in the AFC and guide the Chiefs to the conference title game in 1993.
Toughest cut: Johnny Unitas.

Running Backs

Jim Brown

Brown is the best football player ever to lace 'em up. Fans get tired of hearing that, thinking Brown played too long ago. But when someone leads the NFL in rushing during eight of his nine years in the league, is named Rookie of the Year, nabs three NFL MVPs, earns a Pro Bowl nod every season, wins an NFL championship and is considered the top player in pro football in his last season ... well, folks, you have the greatest player in league history. His career average of 5.22 yards per carry is the highest among players with at least 1,000 carries. Brown is the only player to average more than 100 rushing yards per game for his career.
Walter Payton


When the discussion of "best all-around player" is raised, "Sweetness" comes up pretty quickly. Team leader, prolific running back, solid blocker, slick pass catcher, terror on the halfback option and durable as the day is long -- yeah, that's a good start in describing No. 34's game. Payton surpassed Brown as the league's all-time leading rusher in 1984, holding the title until Emmitt Smith passed him in 2002. Despite playing on some mediocre Bears clubs, Payton led the NFC in rushing every year from 1976 to 1980, before the days of Coach Ditka, McMahon and Singletary in Chicago. The seemingly indestructible Payton missed one game -- during his rookie season -- over a 13-year career, despite being one of the most physical runners ever. Incredible.
Competition at running back: Brown didn't have any; he is the greatest player ever. Payton, however, had some company here. Barry Sanders, like Brown, was elite throughout his entire NFL career. What held Sanders back were poor performances in the postseason, when he faced some of the league's best defenses. Eric Dickerson and Tony Dorsett were remarkable players. Ditto Earl Campbell. Emmitt Smith, as hard as it is to believe, probably doesn't get enough respect for being the game's all-time leading rusher. Though he was not as flashy as Sanders, Smith ramped his game up two notches against the best teams in the league -- more so than any back in history. Steve Van Buren, the premier player in the NFL in the late 1940s, has almost been completely forgotten by fans.
Toughest cuts: Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith.

Wide Receivers


Jerry Rice

Considered by many -- including NFL Network, back in 2010 -- to be the NFL's greatest player, Rice is a no-brainer for inclusion on this list. The all-time leader in receptions, receiving yards and touchdowns was so dominant that it's almost hard to wrap your brain around his numbers. Rice racked up over 2,200 yards and 22 touchdowns in January football. That's plain ridiculous. Rice earned three rings with the 49ers and played in another Super Bowl with the Raiders. This guy posted his last 1,000-yard campaign at age 40. Yes, 40. That's unreal -- a 40-year-old man getting that much separation from 20-something defensive backs.
Don Hutson

Don Hutson and Sammy Baugh went back and forth as the two best players in football from the mid-1930s to the mid-'40s. It was an odd, unique era of pro football. Many of the league's premium players served in World War II, and the invisible color line wasn't broken until 1946. (Black players did play in the 1920s and early '30s, before the game gained traction as a big business.) So in a league lacking its usual talent, Hutson literally dominated games. Dominated. In 1942, Hutson led the NFL with 74 catches. The next closest dude had 27. He averaged over 100 yards per game that season, in an era when most quarterbacks didn't even throw for 100 yards per game. Most importantly, even in the seasons that weren't marked by WWII absences (1935-1941, 1945), Hutson finished first, second or third in receiving in yards (and he was in third only once -- in his rookie season).
Competition at wide receiver: Rice's totals of 22,895 yards and 197 receiving touchdowns (as well as 10 rushing touchdowns, for good measure) made him an automatic selection. That said, Lance Alworth was probably the AFL's greatest player, and it was extremely painful to leave him off in favor of Hutson. In 1965, Alworth put up 1,602 yards in 14 games. As the first receiver to master the art of attacking the football at its highest point, "Bambi" was unstoppable. Raymond Berry is the greatest possession receiver in the Hall. Steve Largent merited strong consideration and, incidentally, broke Hutson's 44-year-old record for career touchdown receptions in 1989 (a mark that Rice, of course, blew past). James Lofton, an illustrious Packer like Hutson, was the league's top wideout when the passing game took off in the 1980s. There are so many great players at this position, including some of the older Hall of Famers like Tom Fears, Fred Biletnikoff and Paul Warfield.
Toughest cut: Lance Alworth (the toughest cut).

I thought that most of what was said was a decent analogy on that story. I would have Dieon on top at CB but is that another thread?

 

[MHSL82]

I thought that most of what was said was a decent analogy on that story. I would have Dieon on top at CB but is that another thread?

Click on the link in the post above. One thirds down, there are the categories. Click on those. Here's the CB analysis:

Cornerbacks

Dick "Night Train" Lane
» 1952-53 (Los Angeles Rams), 1954-59 (Chicago Cardinals), 1960-65 (Detroit Lions)
» Hall of Fame Class of 1974
Perhaps the best measure of a player -- particularly a defender -- is whether his game could transcend eras. "Night Train" had the skills and strength to lock up with a Raymond Berry ... or a Reggie Wayne. And he brought a physical component that was highlighted in a violent era of pro football. Lane absolutely destroyed receivers with his clothesline tackles, and he had no problem in run support, either. He could bait-and-pick on an out route like Rod Woodson did in 1993, or deliver a message a la Ronnie Lott in 1983. And he was a factor from the first moment he stepped onto an NFL field. As a rookie, he recorded an unfathomable 14 interceptions -- in 12 games! Considering that teams barely threw the ball 20 times per game in 1952, that is truly a remarkable total (and it is still the most interceptions ever by a rookie). The seven-time Pro Bowler set the standard at the position.
Rod Woodson
» 1987-96 (Pittsburgh Steelers), 1997 (San Francisco 49ers), 1998-2001 (Baltimore Ravens), 2002-03 (Oakland Raiders)
» Hall of Fame Class of 2009
Elite. It's a term we hear a lot these days. Tom Brady is elite; Eli Manning says he is. Woodson, though, embodies the word. Here's all you need to know about the DB: He was named to the NFL's 75th Anniversary All-Time Team ... as an active player with just seven seasons under his belt at the time. So the guy was already considered an all-timer before he was even halfway done with his career. Woodson was an offensive threat on defense; he took the ball to the house 12 times off interceptions, with 10 of those coming after he'd already been selected to the league's all-time team. Always considered a team leader, Woodson won a ring in Baltimore, and he also appeared in Super Bowls with Pittsburgh and Oakland. And he sustained a high level of play throughout his career, earning a first-team All-Pro nod with the Raiders at age 37.
Competition at cornerback: Deion Sanders' exclusion from our starting lineup does not diminish his standing as one of the greatest players of all time, regardless of position. "Prime Time" still might be the best cover corner ever, but in the end, Woodson's absurd longevity put him over the top. Mike Haynes was a Pro Bowl-caliber player pretty much from Day 1 in the league, playing the lion's share of his career in stifling man-to-man coverage. One player whose name should be mentioned far more than it is: Mel Renfro. The Cowboys great was very similar to Woodson: Every quarterback completely avoided his side of the field, and he excelled as a kick returner. Renfro spent three seasons playing across from another future HOF corner in Herb Adderley, and QBs constantly tested Adderley's side. That's respect. Mel Blount's size (6-foot-3) and overall skill set made him an any-era player. Lem Barney, Roger Wehrli and Darrell Green all deserve acclaim.
Toughest cuts: Deion Sanders, Mel Renfro, Mel Blount.

 

[darken65]

Yes ,I read the whole thing on NFL .com earlier. Not that I am a fan of Deion but my money would have been him to be the top CB .Deion over Rod Woodson anyday.

 

[MHSL82]

Yes ,I read the whole thing on NFL .com earlier. Not that I am a fan of Deion but my money would have been him to be the top CB .

My fault. I thought you skipped over my comments and went straight to the ranking and was asking me if they ranked CBs, too. Obviously, I misread your post. You said another thread, not another link.