Series Thread: Cleveland Cavs vs Boston Celtics

[WiggyRuss]

Kevin Love heating up. Thats bad news for the rest of the league.

 

[bksballer89]

Kevin Love heating up. Thats bad news for the rest of the league.

Not every team are going to give him wide open looks like he is in practice

 

[WiggyRuss]

I miss Booby Gibson though

bobby was so clutch. Had a lot of charisma as well. He got 30 I think in that Game 6 to send the Cavs to the Finals in '07. In those days if anyone on the Cavs scored 20 besides LeBron it was a huge deal.

Good game tonight for the Cavs. The Celtics tried to turn up the intensity and turn it into a brawl- but the Cavs kept their composure, kept playing their game, for the first time in the series they had a run where they were hitting alot of 3's - Love stepped up which was huge because Kyrie did not play as well as his first two games.

Tristan Thompson is awesome. What a huge offensive board there at the end. He keeps stealing the Celtics lunch money at the most crucial moments.

and Evan Turner needs to shut his mouth- LeBron met him at the rim and blocked the shit out of him- and Turner talks shit down 0-2 about to lose a third in a row to LeBron. unreal.

Lets see if they can close this out Sunday and get a little rest for Chicago.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Not every team are going to give him wide open looks like he is in practice

does any team in the league have a better pair of guys that collapse the defense and get wide open looks for their shooters?

the answer is no.

you saw that play to ice the game. LeBron drove- attracted tons of attention and made a great pass to the wide open 27 year old, 3 time all star, best court-stretching big man, that can also rebound and play in the post at an elite level, Kevin Love

someone tell me- ya really think Kevin Love is gonna switch sides and play for the Celtics next year after feeling this and knowing he couldnt get passed Kyrie and LeBron? Ya really think Kevin Love is gonna take a paycut to go to LA and compete for the 7th and 8th seed in the West and play with the black-hole of possessions Kobe Bryant?

or is he gonna take the most money that can be offered, and stay with the team with the best chance to win it?

things change. I totally understand there is a chance Kevin Love leaves the Cavaliers this offseason. It would be a huge blow to the team considering they gave up a first round pick from Miami, Bennett and of course the crown jewel Wiggins. There is a REAL chance he leaves. No matter what anyone says- no matter what Love has said in the past in any secret meeting or out in the open to the media- no one knows.

But after nights like tonight- seeing Kevin Love strut back to the Cavs bench after nailing that dagger three-pointer- its hard for me to imagine he turns down more money to go play elsewhere.

 

[Rock Strongo]

i'm just glad this team made it. hell of a job by Stevens. it boils down to talent...celtics have a ton of heart, but not nearly the talent cleveland has.

kevin love is a fraud. i'm glad he didnt come here. what a waste of talent.

 

[bksballer89]

i'm just glad this team made it. hell of a job by Stevens. it boils down to talent...celtics have a ton of heart, but not nearly the talent cleveland has.

kevin love is a fraud. i'm glad he didnt come here. what a waste of talent.

Not his fault. The don't know how to use him. He's not stretch 4 but they're using him that way. They keep him on the perimeter all day for open looks instead of using him in the post. It's one of the major reasons his rebounding is down. Hard to grab boards at the 3 pt line

 

[Rock Strongo]

Not his fault. The don't know how to use him. He's not stretch 4 but they're using him that way. They keep him on the perimeter all day for open looks instead of using him in the post. It's one of the major reasons his rebounding is down. Hard to grab boards at the 3 pt line

i see that, but he can shoot 3's too.

hes better off in the paint IMO...but i just dont see a lot of heart in the player.

 

[GenJac]

The Cavs are squeeking by some wins against lowly Boston. Honestly, Chicago may sweep Cleveland. Remember, the Bulls basically split the series with Cleveland (without those 2 half court hail Mary's, the series is 2-2), without a combined 7 players, due to injuries. With a healthy Bulls team, it's not even going to be close. I'll definitely be back, after the Bulls beat Cleveland (assuming they advance). This is going to be fun. Even with the referees giving Lebron 5 or 6 freebies a night, the Bulls will embarrass that team...badly.

 

[gordontrue]

Not his fault. The don't know how to use him. He's not stretch 4 but they're using him that way. They keep him on the perimeter all day for open looks instead of using him in the post. It's one of the major reasons his rebounding is down. Hard to grab boards at the 3 pt line

There's obviously some truth to this common sentiment... but I think its being overstated.

Here are some things to keep in mind.

1) Love ranked 17th in the leauge this season in Post-up Field Goal attempts. He had several post-up scores last night.

2) Love attempted far fewer 3 pointers this year than he did his last year in Minnesota. (5.1 per game compared to 6.6 per game). He's actually shooting less 3's.

3) There's good evidence that he is a stretch 4. Even in his time at Minnesota, but especially now. Channing Frye is the only power forward who attempted at least 300 3-pointers and shot a better percentage than Love. Love finished ahead of people like Ryan Anderson and Mirotic in 3 pt %.

4) He averaged just under 10 rebounds this season... less than 2 rebounds down from his career average.

 

[gordontrue]

The Cavs are squeeking by some wins against lowly Boston. Honestly, Chicago may sweep Cleveland. Remember, the Bulls basically split the series with Cleveland (without those 2 half court hail Mary's, the series is 2-2), without a combined 7 players, due to injuries. With a healthy Bulls team, it's not even going to be close. I'll definitely be back, after the Bulls beat Cleveland (assuming they advance). This is going to be fun. Even with the referees giving Lebron 5 or 6 freebies a night, the Bulls will embarrass that team...badly.

So....

- Cleveland beats the hottest team in the East (other than themselves) solidly 3 games in a row. (The Celtics have exactly 0 2nd-half leads in this series)

- Chicago erases a huge deficit only to lose a huge lead and then grind out a win in OT against one of the worst playoff teams over the last half of the season.

.... and your conclusion is that Chicago may sweep Cleveland??

That's fine if you think that could happen... but I wouldn't use their current series games results as evidence for your argument if I were you.

 

[bksballer89]

Fewer 3s due to less shot attempts but a higher % of his shots are 3s this year. Last year he attempted over 6 3s per night on 18 shot attempts per night. This year he's attempting over 5 3s per night on just over 12 shots per night so nearly half of his attempts this year per night were 3s

 

[gordontrue]

True. Like I said, there's definitely validity to your statement.

Love has to play differently to play with this team, that's just the bottom line. He's not going to get as many attempts playing with 2 other players capable of carrying a team. And he's not going to have as much opportunity to campout in the paint playing with 2 players who are at their best when penetrating.

If he wants to campout in the paint and shoot 18 times per game... then he should head back to some lottery team this off season.

It was a slow start... but it feels to me like they're starting to find their roles pretty well. Love was huge for them last night with Irving having an off game.

 

[trojanfan12]

- Cleveland beats the hottest team in the East (other than themselves) solidly 3 games in a row. (The Celtics have exactly 0 2nd-half leads in this series)

- Chicago erases a huge deficit only to lose a huge lead and then grind out a win in OT against one of the worst playoff teams over the last half of the season.

These 2 things are not as different from one another as you seem to think. Letting an inferior team hang close and beating them by less than you probably should and building a big lead over an inferior team, letting them back in the game and then beating them by less than you should, are both still beating an inferior team by less than you should.

Also, how teams are playing at the end of the season isn't necessarily always a great gauge either. As you point out, Boston was one of the hottest teams in the league to close the season, yet they're down 0-3. Meanwhile, I think everyone but me was writing off Memphis at the end of the season. Some were even predicting that they may not make it out of the first round. Yet, they're up 2-0 and neither game has been all that close.

 

[trojanfan12]

True. Like I said, there's definitely validity to your statement.

Love has to play differently to play with this team, that's just the bottom line. He's not going to get as many attempts playing with 2 other players capable of carrying a team. And he's not going to have as much opportunity to campout in the paint playing with 2 players who are at their best when penetrating.

If he wants to campout in the paint and shoot 18 times per game... then he should head back to some lottery team this off season.

It was a slow start... but it feels to me like they're starting to find their roles pretty well. Love was huge for them last night with Irving having an off game.

The bold is why he may leave. If the Cavs wanted a stretch 4, they should have gone out and gotten a stretch 4. Love is not a true stretch 4. He's more of a traditional 4 who happens to be a pretty good 3 point shooter as well.

 

[gordontrue]

These 2 things are not as different from one another as you seem to think. Letting an inferior team hang close and beating them by less than you probably should and building a big lead over an inferior team, letting them back in the game and then beating them by less than you should, are both still beating an inferior team by less than you should.

Also, how teams are playing at the end of the season isn't necessarily always a great gauge either. As you point out, Boston was one of the hottest teams in the league to close the season, yet they're down 0-3. Meanwhile, I think everyone but me was writing off Memphis at the end of the season. Some were even predicting that they may not make it out of the first round. Yet, they're up 2-0 and neither game has been all that close.

All very fair points. I'm not making any argument for Cleveland vs Chicago... I was just responding to his silly argument.

GenJac claims that because Cleveland is squeaking out wins... that the Bulls will likely sweep them..... When in reality the BULLS are doing way more of the squeaking. The Celtics have not yet held a lead after halftime.

 

[gordontrue]

The bold is why he may leave. If the Cavs wanted a stretch 4, they should have gone out and gotten a stretch 4. Love is not a true stretch 4. He's more of a traditional 4 who happens to be a pretty good 3 point shooter as well.

Then I guess I'm confused at what a stretch 4 is.

I thought a stretch 4 was a 4 who was capable of stretching the defense with his threat of shooting.

Does being a stretch 4 also carry a requirement of sucking at interior offense?

 

[trojanfan12]

All very fair points. I'm not making any argument for Cleveland vs Chicago... I was just responding to his silly argument.

GenJac claims that because Cleveland is squeaking out wins... that the Bulls will likely sweep them..... When the in reality BULLS are doing way more of the squeaking. The Celtics have not yet held a lead after halftime.

Yeah, I can definitely see a healthy Bulls team taking the Cavs out (especially if Rose keeps playing well), but I don't see them sweeping the Cavs. That series will go at least 6 games and probably 7.

Considering that both teams have won their games by an average of just over 9 points per game, neither team is "doing way more of the squeaking."

 

[gordontrue]

Considering that both teams have won their games by an average of just over 9 points per game, neither team is "doing way more of the squeaking."

Fair enough... so at best its a wash. Push comes to shove... the squeak edge goes to the Bulls for having an OT game.

Either way... that other poster using the Cavs "squeaking out wins" as evidence for why the Bulls will beat them is silly, IMO

 

[trojanfan12]

Then I guess I'm confused at what a stretch 4 is.

I thought a stretch 4 was a 4 who was capable of stretching the defense with his threat of shooting.

Does being a stretch 4 also carry a requirement of sucking at interior offense?

It's about where most of their points come from. A true stretch 4 gets most of his points from the perimeter. Basically from 10 feet to the 3 point line. Not a lot of emphasis on rebounding and interior offense. As was pointed out, prior to joining the Cavs, about 1/3 of Love's shot attempts were from the 3 point line, now it's almost half. I haven't looked, but I'd bet there may be a resultant drop in his number of offensive rebounds per game as well.

It's like Pau when D'Antoni was coaching the Lakers. D'Antoni tried to make him a stretch 4 just because he has a solid outside shot and Pau spent a fair amount of time frustrated and feeling like he wasn't part of the offense (like we've seen from Love a fair amount of the time). Now, he's in Chicago, all of his skills are being used and he's looking like the Pau that had a big hand in the Lakers back to back titles.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Fair enough... so at best its a wash. Push comes to shove... the squeak edge goes to the Bulls for having an OT game.

Either way... that other poster using the Cavs "squeaking out wins" as evidence for why the Bulls will beat them is silly, IMO

The probable difference maker between Bulls/Cavs series will be exactly what it always has been.
Cavs have James. Bulls don't.

As far as Love,moving forward, if the Cavs can get him to sign a 5 year max THIS summer, he is a bargain.

If he demands a 1 year max, then they are screwed next year IMO whether he stays or leaves because he will never be worth 30M/year or whatever new max will be and especially if its on a team with another 30M max (James) and 20M max Kyrie.

Do the math...