Chris Harris said Wilson is better than Luck

[SonnyCID]

Something to consider for all the "Seattle's defense is why they win and it has nothing to do with Wilson" crowd: Since Wilson became the starter he has 30 wins, 11 of those are come from behind wins in the 4th quarter which means the defense was actually losing and Wilson brought the team back for the win. That is more than 1/3 of all his wins that were put directly on his shoulders.

People act like the Hawks blow everyone out and he coasts to wins all the time. Carroll calls games tight, often scary tight. Wilson MUST play well late in 90% of his games, and he does.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You mean when a HOF QB was at the helm providing the cologne to cover up the stink?

If you are implying that they were actually good, then you are practicing revisionist history. The amount of players that were let go or were well past their prime prior to Luck showing up is insane. You saw how bad that team was when Manning went down.

Yes they were good with a good QB. The Colts went all out to suck once Manning went down. Is the QB who took his place even in the league? I'd be surprised if he was, because he was garbage. Lots of talent was left, that is certain because frankly Luck wasn't doing it by himself. His rookie season was a shit load of passes and a ton of interceptions. He had Reggie Wayne which is better then any receiver on the Seahawks.
Also you can't just discount how Luck has done in the playoffs, it's not impressive IMO. I sure folks will just chalk that up to having a bad team. Mm mm will that change any time soon? Or are we going to have to keep listening to " if he only had a good team" ? For the next decade.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

You mean when a HOF QB was at the helm providing the cologne to cover up the stink?

If you are implying that they were actually good, then you are practicing revisionist history. The amount of players that were let go or were well past their prime prior to Luck showing up is insane. You saw how bad that team was when Manning went down.

There's absolutely no point in debating with Seahawks fans. They ALWAYS overrate their team. I remember they were overrating their team a few years after they lost in the Super Bowl. They were overrating their team long before they lost in the Super Bowl too. They just drink the homerade in Seattle and there's really nothing you or I can do about it. They finally got an actually good team that won the Super Bowl, and they are finding ways to overrate it even further. Just let them live in their delusional world.

 

[WizardHawk]

I don't have any agenda against Seattle.

Then why are you either solidly #1 or tied for it on most every Seattle related thread on this board? Hell, even the denver/seattle game thread you nearly doubled up the next highest poster.

Your deep obsession with all things Seattle is obvious. You wonder why there are so many responses by Seattle fans and yet keep on stirring up the same old shit thread after thread intentionally creating the very drama you chide.

 

[bksballer89]

Something to consider for all the "Seattle's defense is why they win and it has nothing to do with Wilson" crowd: Since Wilson became the starter he has 30 wins, 11 of those are come from behind wins in the 4th quarter which means the defense was actually losing and Wilson brought the team back for the win. That is more than 1/3 of all his wins that were put directly on his shoulders.

I'm curious to know how many points the defense allowed in those 11 games. If I had to take a guess, I would say that in at least 8 of those 11 they probably allowed fewer than 21 points....What I'm saying basically is that in most of those comeback wins the defense was not the issue but the offense lack of scoring was.

Example #1- Last year in Carolina the defense allowed 7 points but unfortunately Wilson and the offense was only able to score 6 points in the first 3 quarters.

Example #2- In Houston last year when Wilson had absolutely nothing to do with sending the game to OT as Sherman was the one who tied it on a pick 6 late in the 4th.

Example #3- NFC title game- San Fran only had 17 points but the Seattle offense only scored 13 through 3 quarters.

Example #4- Fail Mary game....No need to explain that garbage

Should I continue? In most of Wilson comeback wins, the defense did their job but the offense was MIA for the most part.

 

[SonnyCID]

You know what else happened the year they drafted Luck? They got a new coaching staff and practically turned over a whole roster. They haven't been a bad team, in fact they've been well coached. Luck is not carrying the cowboys here, he's on an average team in a weak division.

 

[bksballer89]

Then why are you either solidly #1 or tied for it on most every Seattle related thread on this board? Hell, even the denver/seattle game thread you nearly doubled up the next highest poster.

Your deep obsession with all things Seattle is obvious. You wonder why there are so many responses by Seattle fans and yet keep on stirring up the same old shit thread after thread intentionally creating the very drama you chide.

I'm all over this board. You need to pay attention more. You need to stop picking and choosing what threads that you think I post in. I was all over the Jets/Bears thread last night, all over the Steelers/Panthers thread, all over the Sunday games thread.

Let's stop acting like Seattle threads are the only threads I participate in.

 

[Smart]

In 2012, Luck AVERAGED 39 pass attempts per game. In 2013, Luck AVERAGED 35 pass attempts per game.

Conversely, Wilson has been asked to throw over 30 times in a game 6 times in his CAREER.

Without a productive running game, defenses are keying in on Luck's passing attack and of course his stats suffer a bit. But context is everything. Despite having no running game, he still posted solid numbers, while cutting down his INT from year one to year two.

With Wilson, he has the luxury of one of the best RB tandems in football to keep defenses honest while doing a GREAT job of completing 3rd downs when he needs to.

As someone stated, Wilson may be the perfect QB for THAT offense, but I also believe that Luck is a better overall QB. You may say it's irrational but the entire argument is irrational until that impossible scenario happens where one is traded for the other.

So go ahead and prove a correlation. Prove that more throws automatically equals worse stats. To me, it's not intuitive at all. Sure, defenses spend more time preparing for the passing game against the Colts. But the Colts also spend more on passing offense, so it goes both ways.

What doesn't go both ways is that a run-first team will run more in blowouts and pass more in close games. So to me, a good team (and we can all agree the Seahawks are that) will pass more against good defenses, which should deflate their passing stats.

Your entire argument is based off an unproven premise. Why are you right and me wrong? Where is the data? How come the leading passer last year in attempts had the highest rating? How come most of the passers with most attempts, on the whole, tend to have high ratings? You aren't arguing for some small edge. You are saying that attempts are the difference between a top five statistical QB and the #15 statistical QB.

And frankly, nothing supports this, and plenty of actual statistical evidence produces Russell being better, even when controlling for this.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

There's absolutely no point in debating with Seahawks fans. They ALWAYS overrate their team. I remember they were overrating their team a few years after they lost in the Super Bowl. They were overrating their team long before they lost in the Super Bowl too. They just drink the homerade in Seattle and there's really nothing you or I can do about it. They finally got an actually good team that won the Super Bowl, and they are finding ways to overrate it even further. Just let them live in their delusional world.

Now that's just plain funny, we are delusional? Because we think it's debatable who's the better QB, Luck or Wilson? You must of missed the whole Brady vs Manning debate.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Yeah, I'd take Drew Stanton over any QB in the NFL. #GOAT #MVP

Luck and Wilson are both irrelevant as long as Stanton is in the NFL anyways!

 

[SonnyCID]

I'm curious to know how many points the defense allowed in those 11 games. If I had to take a guess, I would say that in at least 8 of those 11 they probably allowed fewer than 21 points....What I'm saying basically is that in most of those comeback wins the defense was not the issue but the offense lack of scoring was.

Example #1- Last year in Carolina the defense allowed 7 points but unfortunately Wilson and the offense was only able to score 6 points in the first 3 quarters.

Example #2- In Houston last year when Wilson had absolutely nothing to do with sending the game to OT as Sherman was the one who tied it on a pick 6 late in the 4th.

Example #3- NFC title game- San Fran only had 17 points but the Seattle offense only scored 13 through 3 quarters.

Example #4- Fail Mary game....No need to explain that garbage

Should I continue? In most of Wilson comeback wins, the defense did their job but the offense was MIA for the most part.

His 98 yard TD drive right before Sherman's pick helped a little I think.

And scoring 13 points against SF through 3 quarters of the NFCC is nothing to hang your head about, it was the fucking niners! They dont exactly give up a lot of points.

 

[bksballer89]

My name is close to the top of several threads on the main board. I counted at least 4 non-seahawks related thread where I was one of the top 3-4 posters to post on those threads. Let's stop acting like I only post on Seahawks threads.....that is far from the truth.

I wasn't supposed to post on the Seahawks/Broncos GAME Thread?

 

[WizardHawk]

I'm all over this board. You need to pay attention more. You need to stop picking and choosing what threads that you think I post in. I was all over the Jets/Bears thread last night, all over the Steelers/Panthers thread, all over the Sunday games thread.

Let's stop acting like Seattle threads are the only threads I participate in.

Did I say these are the only places you post, or just that all threads Seattle related have more posts by you than any other poster, including fans of the team the threads are about? :rollseyes:

You endlessly bash on the Seahawks and their fans and act surprised when they feed it back to you.

 

[bksballer89]

His 98 yard TD drive right before Sherman's pick helped a little I think.

And scoring 13 points against SF through 3 quarters of the NFCC is nothing to hang your head about, it was the fucking niners! They dont exactly give up a lot of points.

I agree....My point was the defense was hardly at fault for the team trailing in the 4th quarter of most of his comebacks. Every QB in the league would be happy if his defense gave up fewer than 20 points through 3 quarters of football

 

[dkmightyhammer]

In 2012, Luck AVERAGED 39 pass attempts per game. In 2013, Luck AVERAGED 35 pass attempts per game.

Conversely, Wilson has been asked to throw over 30 times in a game 6 times in his CAREER.

Without a productive running game, defenses are keying in on Luck's passing attack and of course his stats suffer a bit. But context is everything. Despite having no running game, he still posted solid numbers, while cutting down his INT from year one to year two.

With Wilson, he has the luxury of one of the best RB tandems in football to keep defenses honest while doing a GREAT job of completing 3rd downs when he needs to.

Last season:
Andrew Luck had 4199 total yards (262.4 yards per game)
Russell Wilson had 3896 total yards (243.5 yards per game)


So Comparing Wilson to Luck we only see a small difference of 19 yards more per game for Luck. That's it. When looking at only passing yards the difference between the two is quite large, but when you are using total yards (and why wouldn't you, they all count) Wilson closes the gap pretty nicely.

Wilson also had those numbers while playing most of the leagues toughest defenses last year and playing in the toughest division in the NFL. And then you can toss in the fact that his #1 WR (Harvin) barely played 7 snaps, and the #2 (Sydney Rice was gone in week 6 for the year), plus the lost 3 probowlers on the O-line for most of the season and you can see that Wilson also had to do a lot on his own and with little talent surrounding him quite often just like Luck.

I actually like Luck a lot. Not just as a player either, he seems like a good guy too. But after watching both play for two years and my obvious bias from being a Hawk fan you couldn't give me Luck over Wilson for anything.

 

[Smart]

I'm curious to know how many points the defense allowed in those 11 games. If I had to take a guess, I would say that in at least 8 of those 11 they probably allowed fewer than 21 points....What I'm saying basically is that in most of those comeback wins the defense was not the issue but the offense lack of scoring was.

Example #1- Last year in Carolina the defense allowed 7 points but unfortunately Wilson and the offense was only able to score 6 points in the first 3 quarters.

Example #2- In Houston last year when Wilson had absolutely nothing to do with sending the game to OT as Sherman was the one who tied it on a pick 6 late in the 4th.

Example #3- NFC title game- San Fran only had 17 points but the Seattle offense only scored 13 through 3 quarters.

Example #4- Fail Mary game....No need to explain that garbage

Should I continue? In most of Wilson comeback wins, the defense did their job but the offense was MIA for the most part.

So your first example is a game where Russell goes 25-33 for 320 yards and no turnovers. The offense ended the game in the redzone after Wilson kept a 6 minute drive alive.

That doesn't exactly bode well for your argument.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I'm curious to know how many points the defense allowed in those 11 games. If I had to take a guess, I would say that in at least 8 of those 11 they probably allowed fewer than 21 points....What I'm saying basically is that in most of those comeback wins the defense was not the issue but the offense lack of scoring was.

Example #1- Last year in Carolina the defense allowed 7 points but unfortunately Wilson and the offense was only able to score 6 points in the first 3 quarters.

Example #2- In Houston last year when Wilson had absolutely nothing to do with sending the game to OT as Sherman was the one who tied it on a pick 6 late in the 4th.

Example #3- NFC title game- San Fran only had 17 points but the Seattle offense only scored 13 through 3 quarters.

Example #4- Fail Mary game....No need to explain that garbage

Should I continue? In most of Wilson comeback wins, the defense did their job but the offense was MIA for the most part.

Just stop it. The Seahawks offense last year was Lynch and Wilson, nobody else until the SB. Injury plague OL that really wasn't that good before the injuries and a bunch of blue collar WRs.

Bringing up the fail Mary? Dude you just lost some respect from me, because that isn't even revelant.

 

[bigdaddytorr]

What argument can be made that Wilson is better than Luck?

 

[bksballer89]

Did I say these are the only places you post, or just that all threads Seattle related have more posts by you than any other poster, including fans of the team the threads are about? :rollseyes:

You endlessly bash on the Seahawks and their fans and act surprised when they feed it back to you.

Maybe because most Seahawks fans actually post on their team board?

And where did I bash the Seahawks team?

Was it when I said several times how they have the BEST OVERALL team in the football?

Was it when I said their defense is the best?

Or was it when I said like Wilson and that he is a good QB?

Just because I rather Luck over Wilson doesn't mean I'm bashing Seattle

 

[bksballer89]

Just stop it. The Seahawks offense last year was Lynch and Wilson, nobody else until the SB. Injury plague OL that really wasn't that good before the injuries and a bunch of blue collar WRs.

Bringing up the fail Mary? Dude you just lost some respect from me, because that isn't even revelant.

I'm confused.

the fail mary was one of Wilson comeback wins....right or wrong? If it is one of his comeback wins then it is very relevant to the post that I was responding to when bringing up the fail mary.