Charlie Morton, Nothing to see here

[Indrid Cold]

Think you have the outliers backwards
Griffey and Trout types are the exception
Jim Thome hit 612 HR's and didnt have his first big HR season until he was 25
Thats just the first guy i looked at, but I think there are less guys hitting like stars at 19 than at 24 or 25

It is definitely exceptional to be a quality ML hitter at an early age, but most of the guys who have monster seasons like Judge did last year are very exceptional and do hit well when they are young. It did take Thome a while to get full time play, mostly because the Tribe tried to shoehorn him in at third when he wasn't suited for the position, but he still had an OPS+ of 131 when he was 22.
I will concede somewhat on the college issue, but Schmidt and Bonds both graduated from college and established themselves as ML hitters younger than Judge did. The thing that gets me about Judge is going from being a sub-.500 slugger in the minors to the rarefied level of .627 in his first full year in the majors...I mean, Schmidt slugged .550 at AAA when he was 22, struggled in the majors when he was 23, and then slugged .546 in the major when he was 24. Judge just took a giant leap in the majors and that's a hard thing to do.

Again, doesn't prove anything...I would be willing to put money on Judge not being a 300HR guy in the majors, though. Most guys who come up late and have big years in their mid 20s don't end up being outstanding hitters...thinking of guys like Ron Kittle and Walt Dropo. Even Cecil Fielder only hit 319, and he stuck around in the majors for quite a while after hitting nearly 100 HRs in his first two seasons back from Japan.

 

[Droopdog51]

Wasn't Bagwell being on roids a given at one point? Pujols?

Bagwell, no never a given. The was a lot of chatter but to my knowledge there has never been any shred of evidence of Bags juicing.

I think there is a possibility of Pujols, but have noting to base it off other than it looks a lot smaller since MLB started testing. That being said, I don't make claims that he was juicing.

The only reason I brought up Yankee hitters is because someone was making references to the Astros pitching staff being on the juice.

 

[Pure Steel]

Mookie: A ball 251 AB's 0 homers, A/A+ 521 AB's 16 homers, AA/AAA 399 AB's 11 homers....fast forward....597/18, 672/31, 628/24 and 61 games >>>> 234/20.....5'9" a buck 80.....

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

It is definitely exceptional to be a quality ML hitter at an early age, but most of the guys who have monster seasons like Judge did last year are very exceptional and do hit well when they are young. It did take Thome a while to get full time play, mostly because the Tribe tried to shoehorn him in at third when he wasn't suited for the position, but he still had an OPS+ of 131 when he was 22.
I will concede somewhat on the college issue, but Schmidt and Bonds both graduated from college and established themselves as ML hitters younger than Judge did. The thing that gets me about Judge is going from being a sub-.500 slugger in the minors to the rarefied level of .627 in his first full year in the majors...I mean, Schmidt slugged .550 at AAA when he was 22, struggled in the majors when he was 23, and then slugged .546 in the major when he was 24. Judge just took a giant leap in the majors and that's a hard thing to do.

Again, doesn't prove anything...I would be willing to put money on Judge not being a 300HR guy in the majors, though. Most guys who come up late and have big years in their mid 20s don't end up being outstanding hitters...thinking of guys like Ron Kittle and Walt Dropo. Even Cecil Fielder only hit 319, and he stuck around in the majors for quite a while after hitting nearly 100 HRs in his first two seasons back from Japan.

Time will tell, his ability to get on base is what impresses me most, and he actually has more incorrect strike 3 calls against him than anyone in baseball, so his OBP should be even better......I see no signs this season of slowing down as an elite offensive player, but we dont have a crystal ball, and like you said, it could go the way of Fielder, or the way of some of the great ones

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Mookie: A ball 251 AB's 0 homers, A/A+ 521 AB's 16 homers, AA/AAA 399 AB's 11 homers....fast forward....597/18, 672/31, 628/24 and 61 games >>>> 234/20.....5'9" a buck 80.....

Yeah, he's a juicer, and not the Pure Green gay stuff you drink in the morning

 

[Droopdog51]

[QUOTE="DirtDirtDirt, post: 11831299, member: 9697" there are idiots in here that accuse Aaron Judge and Gleyber Torres of being on steroids because its easier than to just accept they are really good at baseball, so Im not allowed to fire back? Who made up those rules[/QUOTE]


This just in.......
Justin Verlander and Garret Cole are pretty good pitchers and have a history of being good.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Mookie: A ball 251 AB's 0 homers, A/A+ 521 AB's 16 homers, AA/AAA 399 AB's 11 homers....fast forward....597/18, 672/31, 628/24 and 61 games >>>> 234/20.....5'9" a buck 80.....

Why you write this in code?

 

[Pure Steel]

Yeah, he's a juicer, and not the Pure Green gay stuff you drink in the morning

I drink beer in the morning.....

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

[QUOTE="DirtDirtDirt, post: 11831299, member: 9697" there are idiots in here that accuse Aaron Judge and Gleyber Torres of being on steroids because its easier than to just accept they are really good at baseball, so Im not allowed to fire back? Who made up those rules

This just in.......
Justin Verlander and Garret Cole are pretty good pitchers and have a history of being good.[/QUOTE]


Verlander yes, Cole I guess, I think he's more likely to be on the Charlie Morton diet plan

 

[Pure Steel]

Why you write this in code?

I have it memorized....

 

[cerealboi]

Mookie: A ball 251 AB's 0 homers, A/A+ 521 AB's 16 homers, AA/AAA 399 AB's 11 homers....fast forward....597/18, 672/31, 628/24 and 61 games >>>> 234/20.....5'9" a buck 80.....

Right. And if this was his first full year in the majors you and your ilk would be making a thread about Mookie instead of Chuck Morton.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

An interesting article from 2012, which was prophetic about when/how Jeff Bagwell and Chipper Jones would get into the HOF:

Why Chipper Doesn't Get The Bagwell Treatment

 

[cerealboi]

An interesting article from 2012, which was prophetic about when/how Jeff Bagwell and Chipper Jones would get into the HOF:

Why Chipper Doesn't Get The Bagwell Treatment

You see Jake Jewell pull a Gordon Heyward on his ankle last night? Gross.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

An interesting article from 2012, which was prophetic about when/how Jeff Bagwell and Chipper Jones would get into the HOF:

Why Chipper Doesn't Get The Bagwell Treatment

Thats where you have to draw the line as a HOF voter..."Suspicion"

Piazza and Bagwell were held out on the first ballot based on nothing more than there own personal speculation, an if you are start going there, it just may never end

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

You see Jake Jewell pull a Gordon Heyward on his ankle last night? Gross.

Uhhh...no-- YES, YES, I SAW IT horrible, just terrible, no need for you to post a link or pic without using the spoiler

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

You see Jake Jewell pull a Gordon Heyward on his ankle last night? Gross.

Youll be happy to know I just traded benentendi and Nova for Kluber and Odebul herrera


Cause if I kept Beni, he would have pullled a Gordon Hayward

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Thats where you have to draw the line as a HOF voter..."Suspicion"

Piazza and Bagwell were held out on the first ballot based on nothing more than there own personal speculation, an if you are start going there, it just may never end

I liked the "players who done got all muscly" criteria

 

[Chewbaccer]

Yeah, well, y'all made out like bandits in the Mike Gattis trade.

Love watching Gattis mash,

but would much rather have Mike Foltynewicz.

I wouldn't say that. Folty had 3 bad seasons, and while the raw numbers aren't bad this year, he even has a respectable WHIP despite all the walks because he doesn't allow many base hits, he's still the biggest head case I've ever seen as a starting pitcher for the Braves.

He has to lead the league in 0-2 counts that end up being a walk. And let one borderline pitch get called a ball or one grounder find a hole, and he'll lose focus for the next couple of batters. He usually gets out of it because he has good stuff, but it's why you see a lot of 5 inning outing from him.

But he's a bit of an enigma too. He's a headcase, but he seems to do his best work against top starters in big moments.

His best 3 starts this year have came against Strasburg, Chris Sale and Scherzer. He won all 3 and was pretty much unhittable.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Another great read from the ever-classy Frank Thomas:

https://nypost.com/2017/01/29/frank-thomas-calls-out-hall-of-fame-elects-you-know-you-cheated/

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

I sure wish...

I sure wish some Mets were using...